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The Forum > Article Comments > An Australian population policy? > Comments

An Australian population policy? : Comments

By Max Rawnsley, published 5/12/2018

How should a ‘population’ policy relate to our major urban and regional centres? Where is the public consultation?

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We must face up to the ghastly mistakes we have made in our immigration and refugee policies. We must stop force-feeding an alien culture into what was once an harmonious nation. We must become more selective in whom we allow into our country. And if tougher surveillance laws are needed, they must be passed
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 5 December 2018 7:38:54 AM
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Yes, ttbn, one of the great ironies is that when one looks around the world, it is the countries with the greatest "diversity" that exhibit the greatest problems.

The importation of millions of Islamist invaders to what were previously harmonious Western nations has contributed to the pattern.

Now the execrable Theresa May has refused to offer asylum to Asia Bibi, just in case it upsets the UK's ever-growing population of Islamist extremists - so we know who now own her.
Posted by calwest, Wednesday, 5 December 2018 8:15:39 AM
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Anything goes, as long as it pushes real estate prices through the roof, all good.
Posted by diver dan, Wednesday, 5 December 2018 9:48:44 AM
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You and ttbn are on another planet Calwest.

The population of Muslims in the UK is insignificant. So who are the real trouble makers? Probably folks like yourselves. Have you considered that as an akternative?
Posted by diver dan, Wednesday, 5 December 2018 9:52:50 AM
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Simply put, we have absolutely no choice but to expand to around triple our current size just to ensure our freedom and security! And indeed our future economic well being.

This cannot be done by crowing ever more folk into overcrowed gridlocked cities. And can only be done by developing our arid interior desert heartland! where if intelligently developed could easily hold a hundred million more, without ever placing any strain on our stack em and rack em cities!

What that area needs is water! Just add water and almost anything is possible! How is dead simple, just create a dual lane canal linking the sea to the north with ground that is for the most part below sea level!

Then use it as a quite massive shortcut to bring shipping into a then, permanently full Lake Eyre. It would be child's play to use a couple of dozen nuclear-powered cutter dredges to dig a dual lane shipping canal. Lock gates at the northern reaches will ensure a shipping friendly flow and a permanently full lake Eyre.

Alonside this canal, we would site several dozen MSR thorium reactors to power twicce as many major project deionisation dialyisis desalination plants capable of process a milloin litres a minutes, and use that watr to turn millions of hectares of barren wastland into waving weatfeilds orchards vineyards and cotton feilds etc-etc.

And just allow the entreprenurs in our midsts to move in along with coperative capitalism to ensure it blossomed as fast as we could ship desirables in! (White Christian?)

Those same folk would build the roads schools hospitals sports gronds and what have you withthe new money this new development would create as we became the most reliable food producer in the world and a lardder to expanding Asia,,when the next boom, the food boom hit these shores.

It is and was never ever a case of can't but most assuuredly one of, we boodly well won't and never ever bloody well will!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Wednesday, 5 December 2018 11:15:21 AM
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As you all can see? As a partially sighted person, I use/absolutely rely on Grammarly to ensure my Grammer is word perfect.

This app is not user-friendly, tends to stop here and start inserting into already typed diction!

Just to ensure the writer looks like the local dribbling village idiot.

Wouldn't recommend them to a worst enemy, which would seem to describe their app as applied to my current contributions!

I am not as stupid as my "user-friendly" app, Grammarly would have you believe if allowed!

But sure to improve most markedly if I pay their ransom!?

I think you get the picture and the cooperation of "user-friendly" "pensioner friendy", Microsoft that makes their free service so profitable!?
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Wednesday, 5 December 2018 11:37:38 AM
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DD,

I have come to the conclusion that you are Muslim; that, or you are entirely ignorant of their vicious creed. Although most Muslims are ignorant of Koranic teachings, so you might just be an apologist. It's hard to believe that anyone who has read the Koran - and not just listened to imams - could remain a Muslim and and feel comfortable with themselves.
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 5 December 2018 12:44:50 PM
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calwest,

Yes. Diversity and multiculturalism are curses. You cannot build a cohesive society based on such nonsense. You cannot develop and maintain a sense of national identity. And it's not just Muslims who are a problem.

Syria is an extreme example of what happens when a country lacks a sense of identity. There is no sense of loyalty to the entity 'Syria'. There is only loyalty to one's sect, ethnic group, or religion. When the government weakens, the country falls apart.

In Australia, unassimilated immigrants are a drag on the state, and in some cases, a threat to security.

In the U.S. it is now accepted that white Americans will be in a minority by the middle of this century. The same thing will happen here.
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 5 December 2018 1:04:35 PM
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There will never be an enquiry into the best population policy for Australia as long as the current Liberal and Labor governments are massively in favour of a BIG Australia.

An attorney doesn't ask a witness a question, unless the answer to that question will help him win his case. A politician doesn't have an enquiry done unless the results of that enquiry will help him continue with the policies he favours.

Peter Costello stupidly initiated a Productivity Commission enquiry into the economic impacts of high immigration in 2007. The Productivity Commission came back with the conclusion that increased "skilled" immigration made the rich property owners and business owners better off, the migrants better off and the great majority of the middle class and working class slightly worse off. This left Uncle Pete coughing and spluttering excuses, but the more recent crop of politicians understood the error of his ways and vowed never to repeat the same mistake.

I heartily agree with Max Rawnsley's article. It is simply stupid to try to plan for the future if you don't know what the population will be in the future.

The subtext, of course, is that inside the corridors of power they do know what the future population will be and that is as big as they can make it without getting voted out of office.

It is hopeful to think of the Australian voter dumping the big Australia crowd but the big business interests and other pro-growth advocates aren't sitting on their hands. They are actively employing lobbyists and public relations people to make sure that the high growth train keeps chugging forward.
Posted by ericc, Wednesday, 5 December 2018 2:13:16 PM
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ericc, suggest you either learn or polish up your mandarin, given without a larger population and the self-dependent security and economic biff that will give us! Almost certain to follow Tibet and a few china sea islands as the lastest an uncontested Chinese possessions.

And that goes for the rest of you extreme right-wing misfits, who seriously believe, that we are threatened by migrants from the middle east. Many of who are just persecuted minorities. e.g., Syrian, Lebanese and Egyptian Christians, Or blue-eyed Turks and Iraqis who also happen to follow the teaching of Jesus Christ! Blue eyes and Christian belief the legacy of their forebears and the enduring crusades.

And if the cap fits?
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Wednesday, 5 December 2018 4:06:39 PM
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Alan B -
"You say - as you all can see? As a partially sighted person, I use/absolutely rely on Grammarly to ensure my Grammer is word perfect.

This app is not user-friendly, tends to stop here and start inserting into already typed diction!

Just to ensure the writer looks like the local dribbling village idiot."

I respond by saying simply "thank you" for all your contributions to On Line in the past, and in the future, I was not aware you are a partially sighted person and have enjoyed reading your posts and contributions to on line forums for years.

You have no need to apologise for anything ...... you see it's quite simple ..... I (and many others) were brought up to respect all ..... no matter what color, creed or religion.

The "respect" seems to have been lost in current climate. We can all differ on opinions, however it seems the "debate" factor currently is it's my way or the high-way.

We need to protect our "freedom of speech" and culture - and in doing so, acknowledge and respect all those who fought for our freedoms during World War 1 and 2 including our Vietnam Vets.

I also include or others from differing countries and cultures throughout ensuring years.
Posted by SAINTS, Wednesday, 5 December 2018 6:22:35 PM
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You state - "Minister Tony Burke’s portfolio failed to present Labor’s perspective. ‘Population’ was in his portfolio for nearly three years, 2010-2013, without any tangible result.

He was the Minister - wasn't he? - when the enormous amounts of "illegal boat people" arrived on our shores?

No, we don't forget.....50,000 arrivals.... with 1,200 - that we know of lost at sea.

As you say Labor's population portfolio being in his portfolio for nearly three years 2010 to 2013 without any tangible result.

Yes, you are right. 17 detention centres had to be opened during this time from 2013 onwards.

Is one seriously saying we didn't have a problem during 2013 - onwards. As these "illegal" boat people were tossing their documents overboard in order to land in Australia.

And yes, it has been confirmed via activists as these illegal boat people were in contact with activists - having tossed their documents overboard - in order they would get Government to ensure their passage.

Do you want to hear more?
Posted by SAINTS, Wednesday, 5 December 2018 7:02:27 PM
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Alan B Quote "we have absolutely no choice but to expand to around triple our current size just to ensure our freedom and security!"

Our freedom has been taken away because of some of the imported people,
do you think even a very small percentage of the Chinese, Iranian, Pakistani, Lebanese, African, Indian, Middle eastern people we let in would take up arms too defend Australia sorry you are living in fairy land.

Even 40 of the refugees that went to America wanted to return to Nauru, because in America they were expected to work.

Massive building infrastructure like you suggest 100 of thousands of workers on minimum wages alone, where will you get the money to pay them? OH you expect to get the money from "with the new money this new development would create". First you have to pay to build it where will you put all this?

In case you have forgotten most of the population is around the coastline of Australia because of the heat inland and you think quote "our arid interior desert heartland! where if intelligently developed could easily hold a hundred million more"

This may help your thinking.
CLIMATE AND AVERAGE MONTHLY WEATHER IN Alice Springs, Australia
The climate in Alice Springs, Australia is hot. In summer, the average maximum temperature is in the mid 40 degrees Celsius (113 degrees Fahrenheit), whereas in winter the average minimum temperature can be 5.5 degrees Celsius (41.9 °Fahrenheit). Rainfall can vary from year to year and can be described as predictably unpredictable. Overall the climate is dry and arid most of the time. Most people find that day temperatures exceed their comfort level.

Quote about Grammarly "This app is not user-friendly, tends to stop here and start inserting into already typed diction!

Just to ensure the writer looks like the local dribbling village idiot."

Now I know what nicknamenick has been using.
Posted by Philip S, Wednesday, 5 December 2018 11:01:29 PM
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Alan B - If people understand what you are saying that should be okay,

the idiots are the ones who point out trivial mistakes. JUST BEING TROLLS.

Show me one person who has never made a mistake, everyone does at some point.
Posted by Philip S, Wednesday, 5 December 2018 11:13:30 PM
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Alan B,

Facing up to reality isn't the same as being a racist. You need to take a look at the tables on the Web from the World Bank and Index Mundi to get a good idea of our real situation. We are currently feeding around 60 million people in a good year and half that many in a bad drought year. Only 6.2% of Australia is arable, and the average quality of that arable land is very low, since our soils haven't been renewed by glaciation or mountain building. We get around 2 tonnes of grain per hectare in a good year, compared to more than 7 in France. Our current production is completely dependent on imported oil and phosphate, and we have serious problems with land degradation (see the CSIRO's maps), without even considering any problems that climate change might bring. If you can farm the interior of Australia with its poor soils and ferocious evaporation rates, then you can also farm the Sahara, Antarctica, or the surface of the Moon.

You might look at the track record of Cornucopian optimists from what they were predicting in the 1950s and 60s. Where's my flying car? Whatever happened to our 20 hour work week and our electrical power that was going to be too cheap to meter? Why are people still dying of cancer, despite President Nixon's War on Cancer? Why can't we regrow amputated limbs? Why don't we have bases, let alone colonies, on the Moon or Mars? If thorium reactors are so great, why isn't anyone building them, even India with vast reserves of thorium? What is wrong with only talking about more people once your marvelous technologies are proven and found to be cost effective?
Posted by Divergence, Thursday, 6 December 2018 7:10:44 PM
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do you think even a very small percentage of the Chinese, Iranian, Pakistani, Lebanese, African, Indian, Middle eastern people we let in would take up arms too defend Australia
Philip S,
You hit the nail on the head ! Why would they fight the very people they want to out-breed us with ?
Australia should be a non-religious Nation & everyone coming here should have to denounce their religion. All the churches etc would come in very handy for public facilities.
Don't want to give up religion , don't bother coming here. Don't want to work, don't bother coming here.
Posted by individual, Thursday, 6 December 2018 7:59:00 PM
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Alan B - Looks like the reply was too much for you he has been posting comments on other threads but conveniently failed to respond here, looks like Alan B gets relegated to comment and run member.

Divergence made some very good points what is you reply Alan B?
Posted by Philip S, Thursday, 6 December 2018 11:19:29 PM
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Thanks for the discussion here- very good points made in the article. Every culture should have their own nation. We should have zero immigration to correct the excesses of recent immigration. Immigration is not just an issue of economics but of cultural interference. Uncontrolled population increase in nations to the north of Australia and in the world threatens Australia's borders, it's way of life, and the stability of the world.
Posted by Canem Malum, Friday, 7 December 2018 1:52:00 AM
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Where does population policy sit in relation climate policy?
Were supposed to have a 26 - 28 percent reduction in emissions over the period 2005 to 2020, whilst we already have a population increase of close to 5 million people during this period.

So a 26 - 28% reduction in emissions whilst we also see a 26 - 28% increase in population.
They seem to hoping to increase the target for 2030 to 50% reduction in emissions.

Meeting these Paris targets is probably impossible; (and probably designed that way)

It seems to me they want national consumers to fund the switch to renewables whilst the world still makes war over oil pipelines.
What a total scam.

- And when we fail to meet those targets they will say we need to do more. -
National carbon pricing would just be a step towards a global carbon tax;
With a global governing authority to rule over us and collect those funds.
Wait and see.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Friday, 7 December 2018 2:36:21 AM
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Armchair Critic,

When your toddler floods the bathroom, the first thing that you do is turn off the tap before you mop up. Our hypocritical government is calling on us to make sacrifices to reduce our carbon footprint while flooding the country with more and more people, who will also have big carbon footprints. Unless migrants are already rich or come from other rich countries, they are going to increase their carbon footprint on coming to Australia. Higher consumption is the name of the game. See

http://www.swinburne.edu.au/news/latest-news/2018/11/chinese-migrants-follow-australians-giant-ecological-footprints.php

Even if the migrants themselves live frugally, their children will consume as much as anyone else.
Posted by Divergence, Friday, 7 December 2018 1:33:07 PM
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Interesting development.
The UN is banning media organisations from attending the Morocco
conference to that is to sign up the Migration Compact, if that
organisation has shown a negative attitude to the compact.
The Canadian Immigration Minister Ahmed Hussen, has banned the Rebel
media organisation because of its attitude.

A clause in the Compact makes it offensive to criticise migration.
I believe Australia will not be signing up. Is Australia attending ?
Posted by Bazz, Friday, 7 December 2018 1:53:30 PM
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Hi Divergence,
Your points on migrants increased carbon footprint in developed nations makes valid sense.
I definitely think I was right too, look at this:
-The news was already out, I was actually late to the party on global climate tax when I mentioned it in my previous comment.
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/climate-change-threat-has-never-been-worse-says-un-climate-chief
- "G20 leaders on Saturday agreed a final communique after their summit in Buenos Aires, declaring that the Paris Agreement was 'irreversible'."
- "National contributions must increase fivefold"

http://www.climatedepot.com/2018/12/03/un-climate-chief-has-solution-to-urgent-climate-threat-we-require-deep-transformations-of-our-economies-and-societies/

This is bad, really bad.
Global taxes... The New World Order has won, it's game over.

Hey Bazz,
It's the final stich-up to steal our own country from us.
Whether by migration or climate policies were stuffed, it's done.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Saturday, 8 December 2018 12:14:18 AM
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Good on you, Alan, never give up. Yes, that damned spell-check or whatever. I suppose we all need to be vigilant about re-reading our posts before we actually post them. Some of mine have been ludicrously nonsensical, what with very thick fingers.

Actually some of us might benefit from re-reading, and re-phrasing, our posts, before they are sent, simply out of consideration for our victim-readers :)

Cheers,

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Saturday, 8 December 2018 3:04:34 PM
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It appears that the climate policy of our present govt is a 26%
reduction in cattle, transport and people.
That will be needed to reduce CO2 by 26%,
Which of your children will you cull.
Will the government provide guns and ammunition to each family ?

The Labour party wants to increase it to 45%.
Will you include your wife in that cull ?

No this is not from Nutnickname, it is just govt policy.
Posted by Bazz, Saturday, 8 December 2018 5:43:06 PM
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More people would make the problems in the following story exponentially worse. Also more concerning how long before this happens on the East Coast?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-10/groundwater-bores-pulling-up-salt-water-off-kwinana-coast/10594444

Sea water sucked 1 kilometre inland as Kwinana bores placed under intense pressure

Groundwater bores are designed to draw fresh water out of the ground, but the pressure on bores has been so intense in some locations along Perth's south coast that the bores have begun pulling up salt water instead.

A Department of Water and Environmental Regulation report has found the amount of groundwater being extracted in the Kwinana industrial area was causing sea water from deeper underground to rise up and take its place.

Effectively it meant the sea water was being sucked back under the land, and once salt water moved into stores of fresh water the damage was difficult to reverse.

The department claimed the issue of sea water turning bores salty was the biggest problem facing groundwater users — residents, market gardeners and industry — along the coast.

Drawing more water from fewer freshwater bores not only increased the risk of more saltwater contamination, but also threatened to disturb decades-old contamination plumes laying dormant underground.

Water supply issues threaten industry expansion

The new recommended water plan affects about 300 water licence holders in the area.

"That doesn't mean that people who currently have water will have that water taken off them," Dr McHugh said.

"What it does mean is that going into the future there won't be any additional groundwater available for use."

That raised significant questions for industry in the Kwinana area, which was expected to expand significantly, almost doubling its water needs.

"Some say that the expansion is being crippled because future water supply isn't there for those companies coming into the place. And if it doesn't get fixed, that is correct," Mr Oughton said.

"Those companies that need water won't come here if they can't get water."
Posted by Philip S, Monday, 10 December 2018 12:58:50 PM
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A few interesting facts that never seem to be raised in such discussions-

For some reason our 190,000 limit for refugees wasn't reached last year, coming in at about 160,000 so there isn't quite the flood of unlimited mass immigration that people seem so worried about.

New Zealanders living and working in Australia are not counted as they here under the Trans-Tasman Travel Agreement and are not counted as immigrants.

When it comes to city congestion, as well as those New Zealanders much of the problem is due to foreign students (about 500,000 at any time), tourists (about 2.5 million) and foreign workers.
Posted by rache, Wednesday, 12 December 2018 12:34:00 AM
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Posted by rache, Wednesday, 12 December 2018 12:34:00 AM-
For some reason our 190,000 limit for refugees wasn't reached last year, coming in at about 160,000 so there isn't quite the flood of unlimited mass immigration that people seem so worried about.

Answer- Refugee quota has gone up the 190,000?? Wow that's a big increase from previous quotas- from memory under Howard it was 7000 then it went to 14,000 and then 28,000. So I would consider it a flood if it really is the refugee number. Are you sure this isn't the number of permanent immigrants. Either way it's too many- Australia is a British country and should remain so. As the Delai Lama says "Europe is for the Europeans".
Posted by Canem Malum, Thursday, 13 December 2018 3:53:16 AM
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Posted by rache, Wednesday, 12 December 2018 12:34:00 AM
New Zealanders living and working in Australia are not counted as they here under the Trans-Tasman Travel Agreement and are not counted as immigrants.
When it comes to city congestion, as well as those New Zealanders much of the problem is due to foreign students (about 500,000 at any time), tourists (about 2.5 million) and foreign workers.

Answer- Yes I agree with Rache that we also need to restrict the foreign students (and shut down the "Australian Education Industry") and New Zealanders. Every country needs to control it's borders otherwise it ceases to be a country.
Posted by Canem Malum, Thursday, 13 December 2018 3:57:59 AM
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Canem Malum Don't shoot yourself in the foot, are you aware the value of the international student market is now worth $32.2 billion a year.

What services will you cut to compensate for the lost revenue or how much will we have our taxes raised?

I think you don't mean or I hope you don't mean get rid of them all if so how many is okay?
Posted by Philip S, Thursday, 13 December 2018 5:46:50 PM
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Posted by Philip S, Thursday, 13 December 2018 5:46:50 PM- Comment 1
Canem Malum Don't shoot yourself in the foot, are you aware the value of the international student market is now worth $32.2 billion a year.

Answer1- So around 3% of the economy. To many- it's not about money. Any community isn't sustainable if it doesn't act in a sustainable way - as you indicated you can't trick the budget. Any geographical area should be able to prosper based on it's internal population, ingenuity, discipline. Economy of scale plays a role. If it can't manage its resources the community needs to invest in management.

Many international students don't bring money here- they earn money here to pay for their tuition- they have found novel ways of using Australia to pay for their growth. If those particular ones left there would be more resources for us.

Much of the sales pitch of the Education Industry is based on flow down economics- of course those at the centre benefit more- there are scavengers that hang around the periphery waiting for government policy to drop money "on the savanna"- aren't we better than vultures- can't we build a better society. I suppose many businesses operate on the "scavenger model".

Posted by Philip S- Comment 2
What services will you cut to compensate for the lost revenue or how much will we have our taxes raised?

Answer2- Yes it's critical to balance the budget. I don't believe that we need to raise taxes. It's easier to see what is happening in the economy if chinese walls are created and managed. The economy of Australia is somewhat similar to the economy of an individual- often economics is unnecessarily complicated.

All situations have benefits and sacrifice- are you naive enough to believe that we aren't sacrificing now- with good management, planning the best of our community can be achieved. In DNA sometimes change is beneficial but usually not- stability is usually more important (but less exciting) for survival.

We are not selling Education internationally but our heritage- there are many buyers.

Good management creates value.
Posted by Canem Malum, Friday, 14 December 2018 8:05:36 AM
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Posted by Philip S- Comment3
I think you don't mean or I hope you don't mean get rid of them all if so how many is okay?

Answer3- There is value (in a broad sense) in University exchange programs but not overall in the Education Industry. Research and Development is critical for all nations Economic and other strength- I consider it the missing chapter from Adam Smith's paper. Our Universities are the bedrock of our nations R&D capability- sadly the bedrock is often compromised- Universities are much revered in the western world and are given key land in our cities and by our forefathers- this land is for the development of our people. It should be the engine of "our" success- Australian Universities for Australians. The universities short term gain is a long term loss.

Value can sometimes be difficult to quantify- but can be described by analogy-
There are two buildings built- Building1, Building2.
One is built to last one hundred years the other is built for twenty years.
They both cost the same to build and have the same utility.
Building1 creates more value for the community as it costs less to maintain.

I would as you put it "get rid of them all".

According to Patrick Deneen the business of the country has become complicated due to classical liberalism- the young and the old have different roles and needs in the community therefore they should be allowed to live where they "want" (freedom) therefore older people don't have family "to support their aging" therefore we need to create services to do this. Children should be free to be children- adults want to be productive so can't look after the children- therefore we need to provide activities and training so that children become productive members of society.

If Patrick Deneen is correct then "pure Liberalism is a cost on the government of society" and "Locke's Liberalism contradicts it's aim of allowing man to live in a state of nature".
Posted by Canem Malum, Friday, 14 December 2018 8:07:02 AM
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When ever we create policy we need an eye on sustainability- pure freedom is a cost that will impoverish the wealthiest nation.
Posted by Canem Malum, Friday, 14 December 2018 8:11:47 AM
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