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The Forum > Article Comments > Australia, where telling the truth is 'just another form of invasion' > Comments

Australia, where telling the truth is 'just another form of invasion' : Comments

By Vesna Tenodi, published 9/10/2018

The new Australian paradigm: its enforcers, its opponents

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“Why is the Aboriginal industry so determined to hide the truth? Why are they so eager to fabricate the past, as well as present …… “.

We can answer that or ourselves without reading further - money (ours) and power for people who are not really interested in people who could do with help. And, yes, unwarranted and unearned guilt allows the criminality of the aboriginal industry to continue.

A rare, truthful article on the subject.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 9 October 2018 8:58:55 AM
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The truth may be inconvenient but how can it ever be offensive ? It is what it is. Many people may not like it, and wish that 'the real truth' was otherwise, but it surely has to be what we go on ? As one of the dissident women exposing the Hindmarsh Island scam said, 'Reconciliation starts with the truth'.

After all, how can one build an argument based on mistruths ? Not just outright lies, but misrepresentations, fabrications and even honest misunderstandings ?

I've typed up maybe fifteen thousand pages of primary documents, mainly from the nineteenth century here in South Australia, the 8,500 Protector's Letters, a missionary's 600-page journal, Royal Commission transcripts, etc, and they are available on my web-site: www.firstsources.info

What did I find, as a long-term leftie ?

*. that the total full-time number of employees of the Aborigines Department was: one. The Protector. His main functions were to provide wide range of rations to up to sixty depots across the State, as well as medical services, free travel passes for legitimate purposes, boats and guns to Aboriginal people. Yes, guns.

*. that Aboriginal people, for good or ill, were counted and treated as British subjects from the outset. Their rights to use land as they always had done was written into every pastoral lease after mid-1851. Those rights applied to Crown Land. They still apply.

*. So it was illegal to try to drive people off their traditional lands. In fact, pastoralists themselves set up ration depots, at their own cost, in order to attract labour.

And so much more ......

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Tuesday, 9 October 2018 9:45:24 AM
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More inconvenient truths Joe.
I can add to this. Most people seem unaware that most parts of the Kimberley were settled at least 100 years after the east coast, and in fact, the last mission was set up in 1910, at a place called Pt George, in remote far NW Kimberley, a place only accessible by boat or by foot. The Worora tribe there had never seen white people before, so the journals written by the missionary and his wife were observations on an untouched culture.
A book called “ The Road to Mowanjum” is the story of the journey of that tribe from Stone Age culture to modern life, written at a time when cameras were available, so photographs accompany the book and the old customs are detailed with clarity and no judgment.
And in confirmation of the truth of those observations is the fact that my father in law was raised in that remote community and told me stories that correlated with those of the missionaries.
My husbands grandfather is mentioned in the book as the half caste skipper of the lugger that transported essential supplies from Broome up to the mission, whilst his wife and children lived there with the Worora tribe and three missionaries.
The depiction of infanticide, mortuary canabalism, wife beating, young promised brides, sorcery etc are fascinating and a great read.
Naturally todays urban aboriginals wish to deny these events but as they were common in all Stone Age cultures, including white ones, I fail to understand all the angst. None of us are responsible for the actions of our ancestors. All we can do is be grateful we have evolved beyond that stage and have wonderfully easy lives compared to past cultures.
Posted by Big Nana, Tuesday, 9 October 2018 10:32:50 AM
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For a long time, professional victims have been playing the victim card for all they're worth as they seek to impose their will on other Australians!?

We're repeatedly told, we have a shame-filled history. Even though the vast bulk of those who settled here did so at the behest of a foreign crown as emaciated prisoners, clad in iron chains, many of who died before they reached these shores or shortly after.

Time for all our history to be told, warts and all. As who did what to who and why. Remember the nation that transported thousands of prisoners came from a culture that tolerated all manner of atrocities!

Committed by the privileged class against all others, some of who happened to be the original inhabitants of this land and who settled in succeeding waves of settlement, not as a single mass migration that would allow all so-called aborigines to claim a continuous 60,000-year history?

When clearly some can only legitimately claim around 14,000? And notable for their refusal to acknowledge the Bradshaws and any element of archaeological evidence that challenges that brainwashed from birth, catechism or song?

Time all our history was put on the table as truth and reconciliation; and forgiving each other for the sins of long-dead settlers/inhabitants?

As for Australia day? Why not leave that as it is and just report the facts. Captain Cook first set foot at Kernel 29th of April. Not the 26th of Feb. Or Australia day. We're about to have a referendum that is intended to unite us?

How is that going to be possible if it is not founded on the mighty irrefutable truth and if that truth is supported by pictorial and archaeological evidence?

Let's put all of it on the table, draw a line under it that says. We can't undo or change any of this! Start anew with compassion and respect. Along with an earnest desire to make a fair go everybody's inherent right.

If that requires a treaty and a universal bill of rights!? WTF is the real problem with either of those!?
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Tuesday, 9 October 2018 10:32:57 AM
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The truth is offensive re Aboriginal culture because much of the left have adopted a lifestyle just as barbaric. Read the yearbooks of the woman who recently accused Kavanaugh and you get the drift. Multiple partners, fatherless kids and now the murder of the unwanted children is commonplace today. We are dumb enough to ask why so much mental health issues! These lifestyles are as barbaric as the clubbing of the handicapped and the giving of daughters to uncles as practices in the not so distant past. In fact many of our generation are worse because they have had the opportunity to know truth and now reject it. Instead they make up in their heads silly little narratives about how peaceful and loving the Indigeneous culture was pre settlement days. The hatred of truth by academia and media because of personal lifestyle has led us to revise history. Simple as that.
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 9 October 2018 10:56:55 AM
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runner,

I've in the last couple of days that more females are not using contraception, preferring the convenience of abortion to deal with unwanted pregnancies, which are increasing with the barbaric, amoral way of life.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 9 October 2018 11:23:48 AM
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There seem to be (at least) two brutal truths which people find difficult, even impossible, to confront:

* the invasion/settlement of Australia was inevitable;

* almost no Aboriginal people would permanently trade their current living conditions for a totally traditional life. With 20 % of the nation in Indigenous hands, there is always going to be the opportunity to do so, but if anything (from the Census, and anecdotally), Indigenous people seem to be abandoning remote 'out-stations' for larger 'communities, and drifting from those 'communities' to rural towns, and from towns to the cities.

As for some of the idiocies which we are expect to believe - apart from the one about elders forbidding young men from accessing fish-traps unless there as a blue moon (i.e. that Aboriginal people had 30- and 31-day months) - my favourite is still agriculture. I've just come across this brilliant article by Ian Gilligan: http://journals.lib.washington.edu/index.php/BIPPA/article/view/9978/10664
which politely explores this piece of imbecility and suggests that early farmers - and there were only a handful of places in the world where farming originated, it's not a fickle day-to-day decision (hey, should we hunt and gather or farm today ?) - were, at first, very likely to grow crops to feed animals rather than themselves, and that they raised the animals for fibre, as well as for meat. Fibre ? Yes, he suggests, to be woven into cloth, to replace animals skins (which, by definition, can only be 'produced' by killing the animals rather than raising them). Also of course, gathering (and later cultivating) fibre plants such as cotton or flax (linen) or maguey.

Aboriginal people didn't wear a lot of clothes so had even less need to weave cloth from local fibre plants or from animals hair or wool. Yet another reason to be sceptical about Aboriginal 'agriculture'.

Of course, it depends how you define 'agriculture': no-drill ? Sure. Broad-casting ? Yeah, sure. i.e. not cultivation, so not agriculture.

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Tuesday, 9 October 2018 11:58:43 AM
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I must be turning into a grumpy old bastard (an unpleasant truth that I must face).

Perhaps we'll soon be told by some elder that, since no copper wires or fibre-optic cables have ever been found that might have been laid by Aboriginal people thousands of years ago, this proves that they had wireless technology. Thousands of years before whites. Geniuses.

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Tuesday, 9 October 2018 11:59:51 AM
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This is only second hand as I refuse to watch the rubbish, but I have been led to believe that a woman claiming aboriginal background claimed last night on Q&A that her mob kicked off aerodynamics,flight and even drones (!) via the boomerang. Save us from the bulls--t. They are starting to sound like the Muslims who invented nothing after the scimitar.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 9 October 2018 1:46:00 PM
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If you want 'privilege' in join interviews don't tick the white box.
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 9 October 2018 4:34:50 PM
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I think it's one thing to own a private collection of artifacts, but another thing altogether if you think this entitles you to 'own their culture' and keep it from them.

So my natural question is do the indigenous ancestors currently have a right to access and view (not take ownership of) this collection on their culture?
Or do they have to apply and be scrutinised before being allowed to view the collection, if they are allowed?

My opinion is this, whether privately owned or not this collection needs to be accessible to those of that tribe, whether they resemble their forefathers or not.

Keeping it from them would be the bigger crime.
You said this man was entrusted by the old tribal inhabitants with this material, that's slightly different to 100% ownership.

The first issue is to make sure it's accessible, without conditions.
If the current female caretaker of this material does not acknowledge this, then I side with the indigenous people.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Tuesday, 9 October 2018 7:30:52 PM
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Researching the Ayers Rock climb I've also found wide differences between views of elders who had lived a traditional life and those who came later. The views of the current board of management of the Park are polar opposites to those of traditional owners Paddy Uluru and Tiger Tjalkalyirri and the Park is worse off for it.
Posted by MarcH, Friday, 12 October 2018 2:29:38 PM
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Oh my goodness what a miserable bunch of reprobates commenting on an article by a woman who parades herself on programs like Bolt touting absolute BS by the truck load.

According to her “Aborigines are the most privileged segment of Australian society”. Anybody who knows anything about aboriginal mortality rates or incarceration rates or disadvantage would laugh in her face.

In my opinion the woman is a complete crackpot.

But leaving that aside I am really surprised that you Loudmouth of all people would be running the line that there was no agriculture performed by aboriginal people. Have you not read Dark Emu by Bruce Pascoe? How about you hop on Youtube and look up some of his lectures;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqgrSSz7Htw
http://youtu.be/8cfhFwGDIqk?t=1053

Borrow the book from the library if you must and come back and tell me why he is wrong.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Friday, 12 October 2018 4:43:48 PM
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Hi Steele,

I suggest you try and find Peter Bellwood's "First Farmers". The original locations of farming, i.e. cultivating the soil, planting crops, tending rhea, fencing them from animals and neighbours, harvesting and storing hem, selecting the best grain etc. to hold back for planting - was incredibly rare in human history. Maybe half a dozen places in the world - SE Turkey/northern Syria/NW Iraq, northern China, Papua-New Guinea, Mexico/Guatemala, Peru/Chile. That's it.

And the practice of farming didn't spread as an innovative set of ideas but as actual people - those Middle Eastern farmers literally migrated, bit by bit, against the resistance of hunter-gatherers across Europe and down the Gulf to India and further east. And over maybe five thousand years. Hunter-gatherers don't give up easy, Steele.

Perhaps you could also have a look at:

file:///Users/joelane/Desktop/Odds/Indigenous/Agriculture%20in%20Aboriginal%20Australia:%20Why%20Not%3F%20%7C%20Gilligan%20%7C%20Bulletin%20of%20the%20Indo-Pacific%20Prehistory%20A.webarchive

Gilligan argues persuasively that the earliest farmers were herders (and 'penners') of sheep and goats whose fibre they valued, so the fist crops deliberately farmed were fodder crops for their animals, not for human consumption alone.

[TBC]
Posted by Loudmouth, Friday, 12 October 2018 6:46:18 PM
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[continued]

As for the half-witted notions of Pascoe, kangaroo-grass ? Which grows every where in Australia, and has almost no nutritional value ? Are you suggesting it was planted, in cultivated soil using cultivating tools, made in their thousands by skilled craftsmen ? Or are you going to do the usual BS trick of re-defining 'cultivation' to mean no-drill, broad-casting, harvesting at will ? i.e. gathering ? Planted by hand ? No tools needed ?

As my former school-mate at Wagga High School, Bill Gammage has my undying love and respect, but he also proposes some pretty ridiculous hypotheses.

So where are there any Aboriginal cultivating tools ? Fences, to protect 'valuable' crops from kangaroos and emus, etc. that are too stupid to eat the kangaroo grass which is readily available everywhere ? Any harvesting tools ? Evidence of tool-makers ? Any system of transport (silly question, it would have been on the backs of women) ? Any storage systems ?

Pascoe talks about Mitchell observing a nine-mile stretch of country looking like it had been 'stooped' (i.e. stooked, or stacked). 'Looking like', i.e. with kangaroos and/or emus running through kangaroo grass across a plain.

A 'paddock' nine miles long, something unknown anywhere in the world of hand-cultivation farming. Even now, farmers in Cambodia or China or Iraq or Ecuador using just hand tools, are pushing it to cultivate forty acres (16 hectares) a year. Yes, at that rate, an Aboriginal farmer COULD form a paddock nine miles long (14 km) (says Mitchell), but only about 11 metres wide.

14,000 metres long and 11 metres wide sounds just a bit implausible, Steele. Yes, it's possible that instead, a paddock nine miles by nine miles, or 207 sq. km, COULD be farmed, with efficient tools (the ones you know all about) by barely thirteen hundred Aboriginal farmers, going flat-out, to grow kangaroo grass which grows wild everywhere and has no nutritional value. (In Africa it's called 'famine food').

[TBC]
Posted by Loudmouth, Friday, 12 October 2018 6:54:51 PM
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[continued]

Hmmm ...... thirteen hundred Aboriginal farmers, supporting villages of, say, five thousand people, harvesting, say, 10,000 tonnes of grain (You don't get much grain from kangaroo-grass, I'm told) ? (Still, that would be 2 tonnes per year per person, plus hunting and gathering). Of course, it would have been the women doing the harvesting. And carting. And storing. And gathering. Perhaps even the digging. And putting up fences. And weeding (although that is such a bourgeois concept).

But then again, anybody who has worked in Aboriginal communities knows just how precious agriculture is to the local people these days, with modern equipment and transport, and running water.

I've got a cute little rotunda in Elder Park (i.e. Adelaide) that you might like to buy, Steele. And a magic teapot. And a magic stick. And a magic pinch of salt. Take your pick. 10 % discount if you get in early.

Happy reading.

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Friday, 12 October 2018 6:59:40 PM
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Theory proves that iron sinks and can't be used to build ships. Also bees wings are too small to fly and there is no honey. Cigarettes are good for the nerves when you get emphysema .

In theory Aboriginals had land rights to hunt roos in Government House Adelaide . The grain fields recorded by numerous British explorers and surveyors were due to opium in the rum , as the lack of daylight saving prevented farming.
Posted by nicknamenick, Friday, 12 October 2018 7:04:09 PM
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Yam sticks were made of stick, formed from wood . Kangaroos were a problem for Aboriginal bureaucrats in official gunyahs. They subsidised work-for-the-woomera and allowed ethnic cultures to eat cake and roo. This applied to remote communities at one end of a grain-plain , in the middle and the far end . However most revenue ended up in the ochre pits and dance halls where morals rapidly sank to a dreaming state.
Posted by nicknamenick, Friday, 12 October 2018 7:18:18 PM
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Dear Loudmouth,

"the grass had been pulled, to a great extent, and piled in hayricks, so that the aspect of the desert was softened into the agreeable semblance of a hayfield ... we found the rick, or hay-cocks, extending for miles . . . the grass was of one kind, a species of Panicum . . . and not a spike of it was left in the soil, over the whole of the ground . . . The grass was beautifully green beneath the heaps and full of seed"

How many aborigines did it take to form 'hayricks' extending for miles?

I am rather disinclined to engage with your pathological skepticism as the last time it took many posts to have you finally admit the impossible; that the girls that the film the Rabbit Proof Fence was based on did indeed make the journey described despite your absolute conviction that it never happened.

Further I am certainly going to take the views of Gamage and Pascoe over anything you may offer. I am also going to take the written accounts of early settlers speaking of extensive cultivated murnong fields of SW Victoria or the terraced hills around Melbourne, or the grain stores found by Mitchell along the Darling.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Saturday, 13 October 2018 6:03:32 PM
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Hi Steele,

About the Rabbit Fence story, I was sceptical that it happened in the way that either the film or the 'story' of it went. I think that, yes, of course, three girls escaped on their first day at Moore River, that they struggled to find the Fence, but probably went back to the Meekatharra Road and hitch-hiked from there to Jigalong, rather than followed the Fence itself - the book certainly gives that impression. Of course, at its top end, there was a branching off into number of Fences, so which one to follow ?

That didn't seem to worry the author of the book in her ten-page account (out of 145 pages) of being somewhere near the Fence, giving rise to my suspicion that they weren't actually following the Fence at all, but the Meekatharra Road. Also there was seemingly no awareness that the Rabbit Department stationed a fence-worker every seven miles or so, yet the author was oblivious of this.

Also I'm puzzled why there was no evidence of any actual pursuit by the evil Mr Neville, not like in the film. I still think there is a lot more to find out about that event. Plus how to explain that the girls were left alone once they had arrived at Jigalong. And yet at least one of them still spent her 18th birthday back at Moore River.

As for your account of ricks extending for miles, one is forced to ask - what then ? Was the grass winnowed for the seed ? Was the seed taken back to the camps to be ground by the women (it's always the women, isn't it, who do all the work). But you haven't explained whether or not the ground was cultivated and fenced, i.e. farmed ? Or was the heaped grass gathered by the women as and when they needed the seed ? i.e. 'gathered', not in any way farmed ? In fact, was the 'crop' grown by cultivation, i.e. farmed, or was it gathered in situ, when it was needed, i.e. 'gathered' ?

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Saturday, 13 October 2018 6:54:16 PM
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Pascoe 'gathers' the 'farming' methods in this field . You can't make a horse drink and neither can I. Capt Cook drank from a creek but why believe him and his drunken sloppy notes? Probably couldn't drive a tractor or coal bark .
Posted by nicknamenick, Sunday, 14 October 2018 8:08:29 AM
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Anyway, to get back to the original thread: does the truth matter ? i.e. what really happened, how things really work ? Yes, of course they do. Can you build a Narrative on falsities ? Not just outright and conscious lies, but on well-intentioned fabrications and misunderstandings of the truth ? No, I don't think so.

Any Narrative which relies on falsities betrays itself. It leads its adherents into blind alleys. But if power is in the hands of such adherents, then the entire Cause is doomed. Any 'non-believers' must be 'neutralised', kept out of any positions of power, ostracised. And worse, if need be.

I've been a believer, at various times, in communism, Marxist socialism, Maoism, and in the Indigenous Cause. I've abandoned those pseudo-left forms of fascism long ago (well, maybe thirty years ago). (Fascism ? Yes: the song goes "We will walk behind the plough-share, we will put away the sword." Yes, I'm happy to walk behind the plough-share, but I know now that the 'powers' are always reluctant to put away the sword. And all revolutions come to rely on the sword; or the bullet in the back of the head).

But I will always believe in the Indigenous Cause as long as it builds on the truth, on evidence, on reality, no matter how uncomfortable and difficult to understand that may be. Currently, that doesn't give me much to go on, but I live in hope.

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Sunday, 14 October 2018 8:06:38 PM
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An interesting subject. Thinking about it, we all started at the same
point in time when exit from Africa started.
Those of us that ended up in Europe had to adapt quickly to cope with
the winters and that probably gave us a head start on those in milder
climates.
By the time people were arriving in Australia they had developed less
techniques for survival due to less need.
Then jump forward tens of thousands of years and us northerners arrived
in our wind powered canoes and people of different eras met face to face.
What has been going on here is probably unique as aborigines had
probably forgotten due to their isolation that the world is populated
by other peoples.
I know, I know the Maccasons visited the north but that knowledge
would not have been known further south.

We should all be proud that we have survived that tremendous adventure.
Posted by Bazz, Monday, 15 October 2018 10:13:09 PM
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The Three Brothers - Planet Corroboree
https://planetcorroboree.com.au/blogs/culture-country/the-three-brothers
travelled from far across the sea, arriving on the Australian coast at the mouth of the Clarence River.

Murni Dhungang Jirrar - Living in the Illawarra - Office of Environment ...
https://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/resources/cultureheritage/illawarraAboriginalResourceUse.pdf
by MD Jirrar - ‎Related articles
of Lake Illawarra in canoes when the Ancestors were ... They brought the Dharawal or Cabbage Tree.Palm with them from the north and are named for this.
Posted by nicknamenick, Tuesday, 16 October 2018 6:31:33 AM
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Hi Nick,

Yes, and there is a story from up that way about an event when Australia and India were joined together as part of Gondwana - that the Indian and Aboriginal tribes were always fighting, until one extremely wise elder advised the Aboriginal men to knock off the turbans of the Indians (all being Sikhs, mostly banana and sugar growers), which they did, upon which the Indians ran away in defeat.

We forget that India and Australia separated only in the past five hundred years - more specifically, between 1500 and 1788. They are still moving apart at about ten km per year.

I just love true stories like that one.

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Tuesday, 16 October 2018 11:19:18 AM
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Yes the WA earthquake proves that.
However , the languages of Bundjalung and Dharawal show evidence of Indonesia loan-words just as in north Oz.
Posted by nicknamenick, Tuesday, 16 October 2018 11:41:51 AM
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