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The Forum > Article Comments > Trump, Middle East and conservative Christians > Comments

Trump, Middle East and conservative Christians : Comments

By Keith Suter, published 25/5/2018

Trump is, for them, a flawed warrior of Christ. He has immense moral imperfections but he can still also be a vehicle for God's plans.

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I was not trying to be rude AJ. I was trying to address several points as you gave them.

Good bye AJ Philips. I wish I could say I was here with a noble goal of turning you to Jesus. Instead throughout all of my posts here it has been largely to try defend Christian Faith as I know it, and to educate some on the principles in the bible. (That topic thread went sideways quick.). If you or anyone else finds God, I can't take credit for it. And I'm sorry if I am a new reason to not look for Him.
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Wednesday, 13 June 2018 1:47:15 AM
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No, it doesn’t, Not _Now.Soon.

<<What you say is clarification I noted as stepping away from a bad position, and as written does show a change of position.>>

Once again, in order to show this, you need to point to where I have said that Jesus will destroy the Jews for the Christians beyond “…what rache has said is correct”. You have not yet done this, and, until you do, you are merely engaging in mind reading.

You cannot show where I have said this and so, instead, you spend your time ducking and weaving.

As for your last post, I'm not surprised you would prefer not to communicate with me anymore. I've been shunned by a few here on OLO now. It tends to happen when people become fed up with having their arguments debunked and would rather retain them than simply change them.

You should see the last time Yuyutsu communicated with me years ago now - he actually demanded that I pay him back the thousands of dollars he'd lost in his time spent communicating with me. It is fortunate for me that he no longer disrupts me with his sophistry, and I take his silence as a compliment since it demonstrates that he realises that I will not fall for his sophistry (If he communicates with you, then you should be offended. It means he thinks you're stupid enough to fall for his crap).
Posted by AJ Philips, Wednesday, 13 June 2018 1:55:48 AM
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Ok AJ Philips. For the sake of clarification.

[You cannot show where I have said this and so, instead, you spend your time ducking and weaving.]

Please show where I've done this, because I know I've been replying to your comments. I even outlined your responses to note the changes based on the words you've used. This should not even be an issue.

[I'm not surprised you would prefer not to communicate with me anymore. I've been shunned by a few here on OLO now.]

Now isn't one of your criticisms that I am trying to read your mind? That I'm not just reading what you've written and taking it as you write your points? Yet here you show a double standard of reading my mind instead of taking the reasons I've given.

On that note though regarding being shunned ...

[It tends to happen when people become fed up with having their arguments debunked and would rather retain them than simply change them.]

Voicing your opinions, is not the same as debunking anyone else's. So far I've held my ground against your arguments.

That said, there's a different issue I think should also be a concern. Your comments of being shunned, along with your rationale that the other people got fed up on losing their arguments shows an issue. It is something that I've seen in other forums when people who are belligerent to others parade at their successes of "winning" because the other person backed down. I haven't put you in the same position I view them because I haven't seen your perspectives as a troll like behavior, even though I don't agree with many of your positions.

It's true that when a person leaves a discussion it can be due to one of three things.
1). They lose the arguments and avoid the person afterwards.
2). They are fed up with the discussion (or the person) and leave regardless of the ability to stand up to the points, or the discussion.
3). The lack the time and focus it elsewhere.

(Continued)
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Thursday, 14 June 2018 3:28:40 AM
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(Continued)

If it's just one person, you can conclude that their leaving is based on reason #1 or #3 based on how they left or how they handled themselves in the discussions. Or even by their own words when they leave. However if it's an increasing number of people who shun you, that's less likely that they are all weak in rationale and more likely that it's an issue with you instead of them. Presenting a larger chance of option #2.

Therefore don't take it as a merit of success when someone leaves a discussion and removes them self from you in future discussions. Be aware that this is likely a failure on your side in being able to talk to others without them turning away.

As for Yuyutsu. He and I have shown disagreements in our discussions, but one thing I've noticed is that he wants to be peaceful to those he engages in conversation. He even recommended to me to stop my discussion and topic because of the reaction that was coming from it. I would bet regardless of him being able to handle or not handle the conversations he's had with you, that he left for the reasons he said (whatever they were). My guess is the debate that ensured is not his cup of tea. Don't take it as a success that people don't want to talk to you though. That is the marred logic of a belittling troll who runs everyone away from them.

(There's more but it's a seperate topic.)
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Thursday, 14 June 2018 3:30:39 AM
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AJ Philips. Since you were in the first topic I commented on, and afterwards we've spoke several times in other discussions, I thought I could share with you the things I've learned or contemplated since coming to this site. You've earned that much from our discussions. If things change and I see good reason to talk with you again, I hope it will be on better grounds.

When I first started I came on with the defense of Christianity in mind on the topic of removing Christian expression from students and staff in schools. Since then many of my positions can be viewed in a similar sense of a defense for Christianity. But I've contemplated the merit of these debates in light of some bible principles.

1st Peter 3:15-16 for instance encourages Christians to be prepared to make a defense of their faith. But to do so with gentleness and respect. I can say I've done the first part but lost patience too often to follow through on the second part. Titus 3:9, Romans 14:1, and Acts 19:9 (as well at at least one more verse in proverbs I'm sure), all convey to not get into quarrels and useless fights or debates. In the defense of Christianity the merit of engaging in these debates instead of trying to teach it's principles, correct misunderstandings, and offer the understanding based on the study of the bible and lessons of experience; all became an issue as I continued on.

(Continued)
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Thursday, 14 June 2018 3:34:42 AM
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(Continued)

A second lesson that paralleled when facing the merits of debate or not debate, was to love your neighbor. It's easy to say to love one another, but much harder to practice when right off the bat there are those who wish to trip you up, mock you, and trample over you if they can. This definitely adds to the element to avoid quarrels and debates unless they are worth it, because it can harm your strength in being kind and loving in face of that ugliness.

This has also shown the merit of waiting for a period of time before responding, so that your thoughts have the chance to settle down, and you don't voice everything you can to the detriment of the conversation. My working schedule gave me this insight out of the lack of being able to reply, instead of the discipline to hold my tongue. But it is a lesson worth knowing none the less.

And lastly, one reminder I got early on in these discussions is that God loves the unbeliever. So with that respect I should have the responses to instead of winning a debate, I should be kind, and if I am able try to lead them to God. Regardless of ability to lead or teach I should be kind, and this hopefully is a greater motivation for me in the future.
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Thursday, 14 June 2018 3:35:46 AM
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