The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > Article Comments > Can we afford a renewables-only power supply? > Comments

Can we afford a renewables-only power supply? : Comments

By Geoff Carmody, published 4/4/2018

It's incumbent upon die-hard fans of up to 100% renewables to respond publicly to the multiplied generation and storage capacity arithmetic outlined here.

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. 4
  6. Page 5
  7. 6
  8. 7
  9. All
Bazz, I don't know if you can go 'off grid' in the metropolitan areas. Some years ago it was attempted but they still charged the 'service' fee. The main reason I would like to see 'everyone' off grid is so that the scheming bastards who 'own' the electricity supply companies, would go broke and die for being so greedy in the first place. But if it were possible it is a great idea because they thought they were so smart as to get free electricity when all the subsidies ran out and they would profit quite enormously by the fact that the average household was collecting free power for them to on-sell. They would make a fortune. The householder would still not get free power and on top of all that would be paying for service, maintenance, repairs and eventually, replacement of the solar panels. All at the householders expense. So yes I really wish that ALL householders could go off grid in the metropolitan area. Oh what a day that would be. But yes you are also right in suggesting that we could not justify the huge size of all the infrastructure needed, (let alone the cost) for all these renewables. Now is not the time especially with this current technology. A fools folly.
Posted by ALTRAV, Tuesday, 10 April 2018 11:41:59 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Greetings ALTRAV. It's clear that we cannot have a reasonable discussion here because of your, self-confessed closed mind. I quote from your own post where you unequivocally state, "I totally reject any comments/articles/surveys promoting renewables."

Prithee, how can I hope to influence a mind so shut against the approaching storm of enlightenment? You accuse supporters of renewables as being "ideologically driven by un-informed and mis-informed people" yet provide no evidence of this.

I provide a link to this article that lends weight to my understanding of the facts: http://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2018-04-06/solar-power-most-backed-fuel-technology/9612976?section=technology

Indeed, I will always provide a source for the points I make in any forum. Sadly though, you have rejected any such evidence before you even read it as per your earlier statement. I contend that your attitude is proof of your own ideologically driven point of view.

Another example, you make an unsubstantiated claim that wind turbines are "total failures". Can you please provide me with any evidence? Regarding your claim that "Solar also a failure but for different reasons", can you please provide any evidence?

I'd like to make the further point that the big batteries being installed around Australia currently are providing a huge service to Australian electricity consumers as evidenced by this SHM article. Please read it in spite of your stated prejudices: https://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/tesla-claims-it-s-being-shortchanged-for-providing-power-too-quickly-20180321-p4z5hw.html
Posted by GJOESQ, Tuesday, 10 April 2018 4:58:45 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
GJOESQ, I come from a base of technology and reliability. My negativity is towards the current technology. It is in-efficient. My background is engineering, I have been in the engineering environment from birth. I am 67 years old and have many designs and products to my name and in my history both nationally and internationally. Now that I have blown my own horn against my better judgement, I do this to say that I have followed the birth and growth of the renewable event. It was founded on lies and promoted on the back of more lies. Enhanced and given cred by way of grants led by the marketing of more lies. I don't care what you read or researched, unless it is to expose and tell the truth about renewables, lies and more lies. You are a dreamer and you desperately want this renewable story to take hold and succeed, as do I. But I will not countenance anything based on lies. Now to bring you back to earth or reality. WHEN, the technology is at a level of reliability and affordability that we won't be complaining about the cost of electricity, it's reliability and so on, I will be the first to report on it and not before all these criteria are met. Once I am satisfied we have a reliable affordable power supply I will report accordingly. Until then neither you nor any other gullable, naive halfwit out there has anything constructive or technical to offer me, links included, that will change the performance and reliability of the current lack-luster examples on offer. No matter how you sugar coat them. Oh and BTW, you ask for proof. My proof is out there and has always been there for everyone to see. You and those like you are too biased to see it. You want proof? Look back at the evidence and the truth will suddenly appear. Just follow the money.
Posted by ALTRAV, Tuesday, 10 April 2018 6:47:35 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
ALTRAV, my comment 'selling the excess power to the community at market rates’ does NOT infer going off-grid whatsoever. Indeed, we need to keep the grid as we move to a fossil fuel free future.

However, the grid needs to be remoulded to suit 21st century energy technology, not 19th century, as was the case in its initial concept and implementation. Millions of dollars has been wasted by
"poles and wires" upgrades that pandered to the fossil fuel industry’s call for new “base load” electricity, a concept that is outdated and irrelevant: https://reneweconomy.com.au/base-load-power-a-myth-used-to-defend-the-fossil-fuel-industry-96007/

The future is decentralised, locally dispatchable renewable energy generation, with battery storage, all connected to a 21st grid that supports the whole network. Smart mini-grids will be the standard within the decade. This is beginning to happen in Australia: https://reneweconomy.com.au/30mw-battery-to-create-renewables-based-mini-grid-in-south-australia-63304/

You say, "as for selling it to the community. Not in this country.” This is totally wrong. Reposit Power, and other companies, are deploying the technology to solar panel and battery owners that allows them to trade, in real time, on the NEM to sell their excess electricity generation: https://repositpower.com/

Have you looked at the various solar power calculators available today? They show exactly how much of a financial benefit installing solar PVs on your rooftop can be. Check out this website and be amazed. Returns of 30% in the initial investment are not uncommon. Break out of your prejudice and be informed: https://solarcalculator.com.au/
Posted by GJOESQ, Tuesday, 10 April 2018 11:25:36 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Bazz, battery prices are dropping. That’s a fact. Big batteries are playing a very important role to provide "back-up energy when generators fail or fall short. This is known as Frequency Controlled Ancillary Services”: https://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/tesla-claims-it-s-being-shortchanged-for-providing-power-too-quickly-20180321-p4z5hw.html

The intention of battery storage is not at all what you are laying out here. Where is the evidence that this is so? Please have a read of tis article to disabuse yourself of those ideas: https://reneweconomy.com.au/coal-dies-super-cheap-renewables-plus-battery-storage-82743/

Finally, I, nor anyone else I know in the leading edge of renewable energy technology, wants to leave the grid. The grid is an essential element to a secure and reliable electricity future for Australia: https://reneweconomy.com.au/aemo-plans-for-future-clean-grid-with-no-mention-of-base-load-71052/

Your opinions on these matters are, sadly, just opinions. The facts show them to be so. I’m sorry that you have bedded down with the wrong camp, but so be it. I trust in your intelligence to have a look at what the real experts are saying. It’s not too late for anyone to get on board the renewable future for Australia. :-)
Posted by GJOESQ, Tuesday, 10 April 2018 11:26:02 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
GJOESQ, to clarify,I did not advocate going off-grid. You may not be able to go off-grid in the metro area. In so doing the consumers will still be using more power than they generate through their SP's. Now another point was, the power suppliers schemed a plan whereby you were only allowed to have 5K max SP's. At this rate the consumer will rarely get zero consumption readings. Only at times when the house is dormant will there be a positive flow on effect into the grid. The consumer pays for the installation, service, maintenance and repairs of same SP's. When they will need replacing, (and they will), he pays. The power company get the power for free and on-sell it to the consumer. Now if everyone had SP's and allowed to run, say, a 10K system, then OK. The power companies would have all this power and no one to buy it. Personally I favour a 10K system and EVERYONE goes off the grid. The power companies would immediately implode. I would not be surprised if, like the sewerage system, once it goes past your door you start getting a 'service' charge then when you connect you get a 'service' and 'usage' charge. Don't presume to know me or my prejudices I look at the viability and reliability factor, and if you cared to read my post rather than presume a pre-determined outcome you would have read the part where the current technology is not viable, irrespective of your opinions and links. From a technical stand point. Wind is a joke, a most inefficient folly on a grand scale. The visual polution alone is catastrophic. As is it's solar cousin. You completely missed the part where I state that the footprint of these mediums will be many times greater than the area they are supposed to supply power to. Remember also, batteries are only a storage medium. That stupid con job of a futile excersize in SA is pathetic when it can only supply power to a handful homes for a matter of minutes.
Posted by ALTRAV, Wednesday, 11 April 2018 2:47:54 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. 4
  6. Page 5
  7. 6
  8. 7
  9. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy