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The Forum > Article Comments > We have been warned > Comments

We have been warned : Comments

By Richard Laidlaw, published 27/3/2018

Peter Dutton, the Home Affairs minister who is leading the charge towards making Australia even less relevant to the world than it already is, was two months old when I arrived in Australia.

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Richard Laidlaw is "still British" and lives "mainly in Indonesia" and, for some reason he thinks Peter Dutton is making Australia "even less relevant to the world than it already is". He clearly despises Australia, and he overestimates his importance and his petulant opinions. He seems to be an old-fashioned whingeing Pom with a chip on his shoulder. The more time he spends in Indonesia the better. I'll bet he doesn't have the nuts to be as rudely unpleasant to the Indonesians as he is to us.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 27 March 2018 8:12:20 AM
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Well said.

One concern is that it isn't just immigrants who are at risk.

If I was sent back to my place of birth I'd travel about 80km east. Surely Dutton has an answer for that... perhaps an educational facility in the desert. I hear that some former Dept of Immigration facilities are available.
Posted by SingletonEngineer, Tuesday, 27 March 2018 8:13:31 AM
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Yes, yes, Richard. We get that you're pissed off. So what?
Posted by calwest, Tuesday, 27 March 2018 9:11:34 AM
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WTF was that about?
Posted by diver dan, Tuesday, 27 March 2018 9:13:39 AM
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Well, It's hard to know to understand what you're actually complaining about "mate"?

But that's all too obvious and fairly typical of the know it all endless complaining and comparing, very superior, long winded pom?

Peter Dutton is someone I rarely agree with, but support on principle, his turn back the boats successful border control!

After all, we have a right to our own autonomy and elect those who we feel best represent that!

Moreover, have had an absolute bellyful of whinging poms, not satisfied with wrecking their ancient homeland but want to replicate it in the antipodes?

With a large injection of or a heaping helping of the British disease that all but destroyed Britain as a manufacturing economy that exported to the world!

And probably explains why you chose a socialist like a witless Whitlam to support!

If it, our refugee policies etc., and we aren't good enough mate?

Feel free to shove off to your oh so much better and superior in every way, England! We'll even pass the hat around!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Tuesday, 27 March 2018 10:44:27 AM
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This is for “ttnb”: You miss the point. I’m Australian first, British (not “Pom”, they’re English) by heritage. I thought that was clear. My mistake. And since you’re being vulgar, if you don’t think I have the nuts to be rude to people outside the special biosphere as I am to my own people, you should have a look at Hector’s Diary at www.8degreesoflatitude.com

And for “Alan B”: Don’t bother with the hat, mate. I’ve got enough corks. It’s true that I voted for Whitlam in 1972. I voted for Goss in Queensland in 1989 too. But I’m a Liberal voter, though that’s really none of your business.
Posted by Scribe, Tuesday, 27 March 2018 11:54:37 AM
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Anyone who says "that as an immigrant I'm not entitled to full free speech because I'm not a real Aussie" is a fool.

Anyone who believes them, likewise.

In Australia you're still perfectly able to say "And I won't be shutting up."

Now go visit to the 'old country' and explain to them how you won't be shutting up....

http://pjmedia.com/trending/upside-morals-todays-britain/

"On March 12, Lauren Southern, an author and anti-Islam activist from Canada whose YouTube channel has nearly half a million followers, tried to enter the UK via Calais. Instead of being admitted, she was escorted into a room by Kent police, who, citing the Terrorism Act, informed her that she had no rights (including the right to remain silent), interrogated her about her political and religious beliefs, asked her what she thought about Islamic and right-wing terrorists, and demanded that she hand over her phone and tell them her access code so they could read her text messages. (She refused.)

Southern was eventually told that she would be denied entry into the UK because of her participation in a “racist” event the previous month in Luton, where, having noticed that it's okay to say Jesus was gay, she handed out flyers saying that Allah is gay. This, the Kent police told her, had been an act of “racism.” Two days after her expulsion, Southern was at the European Parliament, where an MEP from Kent, Janice Atkinson, pointed out that as a Canadian, Southern carries a passport in which the Queen of Canada, who is also Queen of the United Kingdom, requests that the holder be permitted free and unimpeded travel. The same valiant British cops who put so much energy into interrogating and intimidating Southern, noted Atkinson, have “allowed 500 jihadis to slip in.”

Just be happy that you are a citizen of a land where free speech remains relatively free.
Posted by mhaze, Tuesday, 27 March 2018 12:43:23 PM
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MHaze: Thanks. I'm very happy to be Australian, and have been for 46 years. I thought that was clear. I was very happy, too, to leave the U.K. in 1969, in part because of apprehension of the future development there of the sort of Orwellian policing and attempts at thought control of which you speak. There's a vast difference between culture (and heritage) and banal political matters of the moment.
Posted by Scribe, Tuesday, 27 March 2018 1:27:58 PM
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None of my business? Well Just don't make my business by going into print with your political predilections! And you're the one who described himself as British. Like so many who think they're the only ones and let's not beat around the 'ouses, able to speak right proper henglish. You seem to want to say something or pick a quarrel with the host country, but just don't possess the testicular fortitude?

Reading between the lines? I'd say you have a minority view/problem with our border control and the detention of intending non invited immigrants? Who to a generic man have quite deliberately destroyed their identifying documentation!

But only after using it to book an air passage to a so called transition country. Where they were safe from the alleged prosecution or mortal danger and as such, owed nothing by us.

If they still want to come here they remain free to opt for any legitimate UNR camp get on a waiting list and just wait for their legitimate turn, always providing they can pass our good character test.

And given they can't? A very plausible reason for destroying their identifying documentation. The same papers they need to get a transition visa to Malaysia or Indonesia where as allegedly persecuted Muslims/minorities, they had already found sanctuary.

Even so, still able to find the equivalent of a year's salary to pay organised crime to illegally smuggle them into Australian territory.

Now if you have a different view? How about persuasion with your alleged writing skill?

Thus far as an exercise in how to win friends and influence people your "very superior" bombast isn't working too well, is it?
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Tuesday, 27 March 2018 1:49:02 PM
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Thanks, Alan B. Always nice to get a considered response.
Posted by Scribe, Tuesday, 27 March 2018 2:09:52 PM
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In the multi- cultural Australia that we have today , one tends to forget about the 'historical' whingeing Pom... Ahhh ... memories and Thanks for them, Richard. Enjoy Indonesia..!
Posted by Aspley, Tuesday, 27 March 2018 2:10:39 PM
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"Thanks, Alan B. Always nice to get a considered response."

http://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/unturned-bunker/images/0/0a/Meaning-of-vault-boy-thumbs-up-jpg.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160316025719

Succinct and right on target.
Posted by mhaze, Tuesday, 27 March 2018 2:20:49 PM
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Scribe.

Unless you can elaborate on the content of the EMail, and the acquaintance who sent it, I'm afraid it all sounds like the noise of a dog barking.
Posted by diver dan, Tuesday, 27 March 2018 8:16:37 PM
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Dear Diver: I can't do that, it would be breaking a self-imposed confidence. You'll just have to take my word for it, sorry. And those dogs that are barking? They're all in the paddock I'm whingeing about.
Posted by Scribe, Tuesday, 27 March 2018 9:28:51 PM
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RICHARD I hope you enjoyed all the justified invective you brought down on yourself? I personally am disgusted by your sneering at "English" as Mr lah- de dah you are British. What difference tosser? Of course Mr superior!
Gee the UK was well rid of you so please do us all a favour and stick it out with your new Muslim mates eh? Keep your beak out of their politics too as they have a nasty proclivity to really pay out on critics.
Posted by JBowyer, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 1:06:59 AM
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«If you don't like it here, go home, is a favourite line among exclusivists»

Then the only place I ever met exclusivists is here on OLO, never in real life.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 7:00:39 AM
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JBowyer:

“What difference tosser?” – Well, a grasp of facts and an appreciation of the benefits of accuracy would be two things, I guess.

England has close to 54 million people, about 84% of the U.K. population. So in round figures 16% of the British population living within the U.K. (the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland) is not living in England. Scotland has just over 5 million. Wales has 3 million. Northern Ireland has 1.8 million.
Posted by Scribe, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 1:16:53 PM
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RICHARD, you are the racist, so tell us what are you as it is so important to you? You are not English? What else aren't you? Sensible, accurate, what?
How about religion and be careful how you answer because your new neighbours are a bit inclined to take this news badly. Badly for you I mean.
Posted by JBowyer, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 5:51:49 PM
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Well, JBowyer, I don't know what your point is, or whether you've actually got one, but all my cousins in Scotland would be very bemused by your theory that they're English. My neighbours in Subiaco, WA, are a nicely mixed bunch, from just about everywhere, and those in Indonesia are fine fellows to a woman and a man: they're mainly Hindu, Muslim and Christian. I am none of these. Cheerio now.
Posted by Scribe, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 6:26:13 PM
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Your friend lost patience with your criticism of this country.
I think we have all lost patience with the immigrants that come here, to one
of the best countries in the world, and also the left wing hippie globalists, that constantly
Criticise and spit bile at their own countries and countrymen.
There are very few countries in the world that measure up to this country and yes the people of
this advanced Western culturally advanced country who have a sense of a fair go not seen in f
most world countries, and that includes Indonesia which you rate above Australia.

You and people like you feed off the teat of all the inventions and advanced civilisation, but tear
The country down and criticise it every chance you get. And we are tired of immigrants who come here who constantly try
to bring their whole tribe here and basically have no loyalty to the white
Population who allow them access to their society. They denigrate our religions and customs,
Whilst being willing to kill if we ask them to modify their religions and customs somewhat.
We have seen it for years and we are tired of it and no longer feel welcoming to these ungrateful,
Unloyal, arrogant immigrants. Its time they gave back, with some gratitude and loyalty.
And to all the utopian, leftist, brainwashed, hippie white globalists. That goes for you to.
Have the balls to go to real bad countries and leaders and criticise them.
Too gutless. Thought so.
The fact that you are only brave enough to do this in white countries is a testimony to how safe you feel in these countries and how tolerant they really are.
It would be nice to hear some praise, thanks and pride from immigrants who swore an oath of allegiance to not only the land of Australia but its people.
Posted by CHERFUL, Thursday, 29 March 2018 8:48:58 PM
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Well I like to be fair. So I'll just say that if I was marking your paper, I'd grade it B.S.
Posted by Scribe, Friday, 30 March 2018 12:38:27 AM
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//I think we have all lost patience with the immigrants that come here, to one
of the best countries in the world, and also the left wing hippie globalists, that constantly
Criticise and spit bile at their own countries and countrymen.//

Don't look now, but you're spitting bile at your own country and countrymen.

//And we are tired of immigrants who come here who constantly try
to bring their whole tribe here//

Yes, because everybody from overseas still lives in a tribal society. It's not just backwards people living in remote jungles that still live in tribes: Japanese, Indians, the British, Vietnamese, Italians, Chinese, the Irish (especially the bloody Irish)... all still tribal savages. [sarcasm]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvtKolUaMO4&t=

//It would be nice to hear some praise, thanks and pride from immigrants//

I doubt they want to talk to you. Can you really blame them when you carry on like that?
Posted by Toni Lavis, Friday, 30 March 2018 9:08:19 AM
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Arh!!
Begorra, Toni, me bhoy 'tis me dhat's glad dhat 'twas on'y sarcastic you was bein'.
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 30 March 2018 4:49:07 PM
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Toni Lavis

You haven't been on these forums for as long as I have, or you would know, that it was me that said 10 to 15 years ago on here, that I preferred the word tribe to the word race
and ethnic, when I talk about different genetic bloodlines, like all the ones you mention
in your post. Including the British.
I said the academics just used the word ethnic in an attempt to fudge the truth in their push to deny human genetic tribalism, and push the fake utopian globalism.
One smug academic even argued with me, that because humans shared in the top 90s
DNA with each other that there were no races.

I said, " well, I must need glassses, because I can clearly pick out races.(tribes)"
So you are not telling me anything when you talk about human tribes. It was never mentioned,until I began arguing and,pointing it out. Someone even pointed out some dictionary meaning for the word, saying like you mentioned, that it was a word conveying primitive peoples, It was me who said, that human races today, are still tribes.
Posted by CHERFUL, Friday, 30 March 2018 11:08:26 PM
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Scribe..

If you want to argue, about wars and why humans act that way, at the biological level
be my guest. We'll see who can come up with the truth of the matter and mark who's paper. And no! wars arent about intolerance. So it follows you wont stop war by being tolerant. Something a lot of people like you think you have all the answers to, but know nothing.
Posted by CHERFUL, Friday, 30 March 2018 11:26:47 PM
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Toni Lavis,
I have no wish to talk to people who dont act like a fellow Australian,
and actively plot to set up Sharia Law and their own countries here.
They make no secret of it.
They are therefore not my fellow Australians.
Posted by CHERFUL, Friday, 30 March 2018 11:41:33 PM
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//It was me who said, that human races today, are still tribes.//

My, you do talk a lot of crap, don't you?
Posted by Toni Lavis, Saturday, 31 March 2018 6:02:54 AM
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Toni Lavis: It's the ordure of the day, apparently,
Posted by Scribe, Saturday, 31 March 2018 11:21:03 AM
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and Muslims have not been behind all of our recent terrorist plots, nor were they behind the murder of Mr Cheng at Parramatta, just a misunderstood group of people, some of whose leaders openly want to change our laws to suit the narrow ideas of their followers; like child brides, the subservience of women, segregated bathing at public (tax-payer0 funded pools etc.
Posted by Is Mise, Saturday, 31 March 2018 2:07:28 PM
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Scribe,

The reaction you are getting is in part the supercilious tone of the article and the chronically superficial and factually deficient nature of the way the topic is handled.

Presently, the population growth by immigration (supported by Dutton and the coalition) is greater than by natural births, most of which are not from Anglosphere, so your asinine accusations that Dutton is against non-white immigrants is a pile of crap.

Secondly, in your absence, you probably missed the between 1200 and 2000 men women and children dying miserable deaths at sea from people smuggling during Labor's disastrous regime, or perhaps you just don't care?
Posted by Shadow Minister, Saturday, 31 March 2018 2:32:30 PM
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Shadow Minister: I haven't been absent and I do know about the appalling death toll earlier among people who were able to get on leaky boats in Indonesia because corruption there made that possible. That has now been stopped - and that's a good result and a credit in large part to the fortitude of the coalition post-Rudd-Gillard-Rudd governments - by a combination of factors, including belated action by the Indonesians to get their harbourmasters into line, and Australia's strict no-sanctuary policy. That change encouraged the Indonesian authorities to tweak their own informal policy of not worrying about unauthorised arrivals because they were planning to move on to Australia.

I just have a moral objection to incarcerating people, who have committed no crime under international law, on remote islands conveniently outside Australia's political control. But I don't think I'm alone there, and neither is it truthfully a partisan issue.

The intent of my piece was not to discuss the detail of policy, over which there are quite rightly numerous differences of opinion, but to highlight what I saw as a developing informal belief that Australians who are citizens by choice (i.e., migrants from whatever source) have fewer rights to criticise policy than citizens who are Australian-born. I'm sorry if you think my argument was advanced in a supercilious manner. I thought it was in English, albeit with a few long words.
Posted by Scribe, Saturday, 31 March 2018 3:52:15 PM
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I'm sorry that long words confuse you so I'll try to be more succinct.

Firstly, as there are no longer any people detained on Manus, and only about 300 on Nauru, (far less than the people that labor and the greens drowned) and once the 1200 refugees are processed to the US, then the only ones left will be the illegal economic migrants who have no claim to asylum.

Secondly, given that there were only 4 people detained when Labor assumed the government, and that Labor/greens left the government with 30 000 people in detention incl 2000 children and more than 1200 dead, it is clear that the bleeding heart approach was a dismal failure so much so that Labor re-established the Manus and Nauru detention centres.

Finally, this is not a partisan issue, as, with the blood of 1200+ people on its hands, Labor has been compelled to acknowledge the merit of the coalition policies.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Saturday, 31 March 2018 7:34:16 PM
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Dear Richard.

If you join any group of people and seek the acceptance of the existing members, to prove that you are "one of them", then certain conditions apply. You can't just join any group and then display opinions which show that you despise the group you aspired to join, and then act outraged when they don't accept you. A sporting shooter who joins an animal liberation society is never going to be accepted, no matter how long he is a member. An animal liberationist who spends 50 years in that organisation and then becomes a sporting shooter, will similarly be shunned and despised.

There are now around 30 "Australians" rotting in jail cells around Australia for plotting to mass murder Australians. So just because an immigrant plants his big toe on Australian soil, hardly makes them loyal Australians who should be fully trusted as fellow "Australians." So yes, immigrants should be careful about what they say about Australia and Australians, because the rest of us might consider you to be a poor candidate if you don't. Look at Abdel-Al Mageid. She made statements claiming that Islam was "the most feminist religion", and belittling ANZAC day, and became the most hated woman in Australia.

Non white immigration into European countries is becoming a growth cause in every European country, because multiculturalism is making once safe European societies into dangerous places. Why you want European countries to commit social self suicide is beyond me? But I suspect it is because you have been brainwashed into thinking that supporting cultural division in the world's most successful societies is what "intelligent" people do. You got that wrong, Richard, it is what dumb people do.

If you keep supporting European social self suicide, go right ahead. It is still a free country, no matter how much the multiculturalists want to change that. But such an opinion, which is clearly inimical to European civilisation, is not going to make you popular among your fellow Australians. Unless the "Australians" you consider your natural allies are the ones rotting in jail cells in Goulbourn jail?
Posted by LEGO, Tuesday, 3 April 2018 7:20:52 AM
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Shadow Minister: Did you actually read what I wrote in my last in this series of Q&As between us, before coming back with your answer above? It seems you may not have done do, since I made precisely the point that as administrative policy the coalition government’s turn back-no sanctuary strategy was a significant success.

It achieved the desired political objective of “stopping the boats”. In part this was by requiring the Royal Australian Navy to ignore international maritime law in certain operational circumstances. And in part it was because this policy showed the Indonesian government that it was no longer practical to ignore the issue on its territory, or to continue its informal policy of wink-and-nod convenience by overlooking corrupt unauthorised departures from its ports.

Of course it’s not a partisan argument (I said that too) since Labor under Bill Shorten supports turn backs and exclusion. The upcoming Labor Party national conference may be interesting on that score.

For which bit of the Australian penumbra are you a shadow minister?

I repeat: My original post related to presumed/assumed entitlement to comment, given that I had only chosen to be an Australian and hadn’t involuntarily been born here. I assume from your engagement with me that you too believe that barrier to be less fact than, say, Trumpian Mexican wall fantasy. In which case, thank you
Posted by Scribe, Tuesday, 3 April 2018 11:20:37 AM
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Scribe,

Thanks for acknowledging the success of the Pacific solution in saving lives, but it must be acknowledged that turnbacks while effective are only part of the solution and that offshore detention alone worked extremely well on its own for nearly a decade.

Having spent some time debating this issue, I have gone as far as reading the UNHCR convention and its updates with some legal interpretations as well as a book on international maritime law. So here are a few nuggets that might make reconsider your claims.

1. Interdiction on the high seas is generally prohibited, but there are quite a few exceptions incl people trafficking, so the turnbacks don't ignore any laws and are not illegal.

2 The UNHCR does not cover anyone that does not land in Aus.

3 There is no obligation whatsoever to accept economic migrants.

4 It is entirely legal to detain illegal migrants until such time as their asylum claims are processed, and there is no limit on the time taken.

5 There is nothing in the UNHCR to prohibit processing illegal immigrants offshore.

6 The tribunal to decide asylum status does not need any international oversight and if offshore is not subject to the Aus courts.

In addition to the above points of law, the main deterrent factor in the Pacific solution was offshore detention which in itself was extremely effective, which is why the Labor government set up Manus and Nauru.

I also look forward to Labor changing its policy on illegal immigrants as it will go a long way to keeping the coalition in power.

As for the moniker "shadow minister" I chose it in 2007 when Howard was in power as a shadow minister has no responsibilities other than dismantling the arguments of the incumbents.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Tuesday, 3 April 2018 1:54:50 PM
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Shadow Minister: Thank you. I see that we read the same literature. One might say: "We are all shadow ministers now".

Lego: I won't dignify your commentary with a response beyond this note, from which you will note that I have seen it.
Posted by Scribe, Tuesday, 3 April 2018 2:23:48 PM
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To Scribe.

Another Lefty too scared to debate and using confected outrage to cover your pathetic inability to formulate a reasoned argument. We patriots have you Internationalists on the run.

The times, they are, a changin' Scribe. Don't stand in the doorway,. don't block up the hall. It is your failing ideology which needs a rethink. Time to jump ship and get on the smart team.

Anytime you have the guts to put your bizarre social theories to the test, and would like to cross swords with me, I am happy to oblige. Unlike you, I am not frightened of fight
Posted by LEGO, Tuesday, 3 April 2018 7:13:13 PM
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