The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > Article Comments > Fixations of propriety: the Manus closure scandal > Comments

Fixations of propriety: the Manus closure scandal : Comments

By Binoy Kampmark, published 13/11/2017

Australia, after all, has a humanitarian intake, and boasts about it like a vulnerable child who feels her grades the best in class.

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. 4
  6. 5
  7. All
Clearly Binoy wants to see kids dieing in the sea.
just look at Europe because they have not put in a similar measure to us there are 10 of thousands of entries a year and many die trying to make the crossing.
Just try putting "how many refugees drowned in the Mediterranean" into google.
Posted by Cobber the hound, Monday, 13 November 2017 7:25:56 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
This is why the so called asylum seekers are so unpopular.

http://news.pngfacts.com/2017/03/a-refugee-on-manus-island-charged-for.html

"POLICE in Manus, Papua New Guinea have arrested and charged a refugee with sexual penetration of a 10-year-old girl.

The accused Muhammad Hussain, 28, of Pakistan nationality who is a refugee at the Australian run Asylum Processing Center was charged with sexual penetration.

Acting provincial police commander Senior Inspector David Yapu said the accused invited the victim and two other small girls to Kohai Lodge at ward two, Lorengau town.

While they were in the lodge, the accused sexually penetrated the victim four times in the room.

Mr Yapu said this was the second incident involving the refugees at Lorengau this year, and he was very frustrated of such incidents.

Read more: http://news.pngfacts.com/2017/03/a-refugee-on-manus-island-charged-for.html#ixzz4yFsjtYVC"
Posted by Shadow Minister, Monday, 13 November 2017 7:28:24 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Sad yes. We live in tough times. Our own people, particularly the marginalised poor, are missing out on affordable housing, leading to homelessness, as a direct consequence of refugees.

There must be a balanced outcome in the end. And in the end, the poor in our communities suffer the consequences disproportionately more, than the middle class that appear to drive the refugee agenda.

The current system of off shore detention for illegal entry into Australia, offers alternatives to illegals. These alternatives may not suit their agenda, but alternatives they are.

They are given food and lodging; health services and much more, while they make their own decisions about their own future. That is fair!
Posted by diver dan, Monday, 13 November 2017 8:21:22 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Forget this 'asylum seeker' nonsense. Illegals arriving, well … illegally … are just opportunists, using a situation in their countries to get themselves into what they see as a land of plenty with super dooper dole and welfare provisions.

Why haven't the bleeding hearts – AKA Australians trying to bring their country down – ever stopped to think why MOST PEOPLE IN THESE COUNTRIES STAY PUT AND SURVIVE, but a relatively few people, who destroy their documents are somehow at risk? There is no way that Australian bureaucrats dealing with these illegal intruders can ascertain whether or not they are being told lies. But, the very fact that most people in these flea-bitten countries continue to live as they always have pretty much shows that illegal arrivals are liars.

And, enough of this squawking about UN and international conventions, which are in no way binding on sovereign countries UNLESS those countries are silly enough to enshrine them by passing their own laws to do so. Australia was one such silly country in 1951 when the refugee situation bore no resemblance to the current one. Politicians can repeal such legislation at any time. Australia is not beholden to some unelected mob of dictators slinking around in Europe, where illegal immigration is out of control.

The real people of Europe and many politicians there covet Australia's “propriety-driven market modellers in Australian Immigration and Border Protection (who) discourage, and criminalise, the smuggler”.

There is no “brutality” on Manus Island. What we have there is a bunch of nasty,self-serving and crooked country-shoppers venting their spleens because they haven't been able to fool the Government, nor the bipartisan (in the matter of boat arrivals) Opposition into breaking their promise to the Australian people that anyone arriving by boat will not be resettled in Australia.
Posted by ttbn, Monday, 13 November 2017 8:23:26 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I'm sorry for the extremely regrettable circumstances that may have caused some of these folk to abandon home and family? Yet cannot change the policy that has rendered the people smugglers business model completely defunct/Kaput!

These folk need to be made to understand, the only way they will be processed, THE ONLY WAY, is via their complete willing participation and promptly followed direction!

Nothing else, NOTHING WHATSOEVER, including the completely out of step, political imperatives of the green/elitists, left leaning loony tunes!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Monday, 13 November 2017 10:19:56 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Come off it Binoy, no one forced to "flee persecution, harm and mortal risk" turns up well dressed, IPhone in hand after paying thousands to people smugglers.

These are gate crashing conmen, & if you don't know that, go back to school, & develop some reasoning ability.
Posted by Hasbeen, Monday, 13 November 2017 3:25:48 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Give them their boats back!

As it stands, Australia is a shameful pirate gang which hijacked those people on the high seas and locked them up for years.

Whether they live or drown is nobody else's business. If they die, at least they will die free!

Give them their boats back, with hefty compensation for their suffering and incarceration.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Monday, 13 November 2017 7:54:26 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The last thing we need, Binoy, is another subversive like you, telling lies to promote the baseless assertion of interests of the illegals defiantly, and without justification, remaining on Manus.
Your dishonesty is typified by your baseless comparison of the legal process of squatting on rural crown land in Australia ,with the baseless actions of the illegals on Manus.
There is no excuse for the malicious nonsense in your article.
Posted by Leo Lane, Monday, 13 November 2017 8:23:23 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Yuyutsu, they do not have any boats.
They arrived in boats belonging to people smugglers, who are welcome to make application for return of the boats if they can show any legal right to possession. The government would no doubt appreciate them submitting to our jurisdiction.
Posted by Leo Lane, Monday, 13 November 2017 8:35:26 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Dear Leo,

I wonder whether the boats were rented out or sold to the seafarers or whether their owners ever expected to have them back - but that's a private matter to be settled between the seafarers and the original owners of their boats.

The bigger issue is, that those unarmed people, while travelling on the high seas were taken hostage by mighty Australian navy ships and locked up for years. There is just no excuse for this piracy!

What those travellers do once they get their boats back, with compensation, including how they settle with those who gave them those boats (assuming they stay afloat), is none of our business.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Monday, 13 November 2017 10:28:33 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
What gave you the idea, Yuyutsu, that removal of vessels which have illegally entered Australian waters, by the Australian government was an act of piracy. The lawbreakers are the owners and people in control of the vessels, who are liable to be dealt with as authorised by our laws, which may mean not only that they have no right to possession or control of the vessels, but no longer any right of ownership.They have a right to a trial, if the government pursues its case against them, for their illegal actions.

The recalcitrants on Manus, are flouting the law, and are liable to be dealt with accordingly.
Posted by Leo Lane, Tuesday, 14 November 2017 1:32:46 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Dear Leo,

While we could discuss the validity of the concept of "Australian waters", in this case the boats in question were hijacked 1000's of kilometres away from Australia, in fact quite close to the shores of Indonesia. There was no justification whatsoever why those seafarers should have been subject to your laws.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Tuesday, 14 November 2017 3:57:40 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Y,

The international law of the sea has several exceptions where a ship can be interdicted in international waters, and one of them is people smuggling. So stopping and turning back people smugglers is entirely legal.

Just note the complete lack of action taken against Aus by the litigious greenies.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Tuesday, 14 November 2017 5:02:49 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Y. You sound like an activist receiving secret commissions from organised crime, which is an accurate description of people smuggling!

Only made possible as an extremely lucrative operation by the sale of inordinately expensive false hope!

We have a right to stop and seize any vessel operating in our economic zone, if they flout our laws, some of which can be illegal fishing, the worst example being hunting and killing sharks, just for their fins!

Second has to be people smuggling and the forced illegal/immoral activities of the transportees to acquire the exorbitant fare.

When will these idiots realise their prospects of resettlement here are vastly better if they #1, retain their ID documentation and #2, apply for a tourist visa. And #3, arrive with the $ 15,000.00 Av., that otherwise would have simply swelled the coffers of criminals! And #4, once landed here, they could apply for asylum!

It beggars belief, with standard tourist visa entry as their, far safer fly in option, they have to a virtually generic man decided to destroy their documentation and try the illegal route and attempted illegal entry!? Never ever the actions of bona fide refugees!

WHY?

If they genuinely want to be resettled anywhere else but here! They need to comply with all lawful direction! Nothing else whatsoever, holds any prospect of a positive resettlement outcome!

Attempted moral blackmail can only have one regretful outcome! Forced repatriation! No ifs, buts or maybes!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Tuesday, 14 November 2017 8:39:24 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Dear SM,

The "international law of the sea" is, as the name suggests, an agreement between so-called nations, not between real people. Just because individual pirate gangs claim to represent "nations" and created a criminal cartel ("united nations") to divvy up the world among them, doesn't give them any moral rights.

The Greenies? They are in love with that criminal cartel.

---

Dear Alan,

The real organised crime is the states and their governments.

Already they literally claim to own the whole world between them, already they assert an illegitimate "right" to control who may or may not enter and exit vast stretches of land which they claim as theirs, then to impose their laws over those who live there - and now even that's not enough for them as they claim the seas to be theirs as well, leaving no one at peace even if they escape out to sea. Now, go figure, these immoral gangsters also claim a "right" to impose their idea of morality on others and persecute those who do not agree with them.

What gives them a "right" to do all that evil? Nothing but their guns!

Talking of sharks...
Posted by Yuyutsu, Tuesday, 14 November 2017 3:22:53 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Meanwhile the illegal immigrants continue to arrive by the plane load and outstay their visas, without a public word from those responsible.

David
Posted by VK3AUU, Tuesday, 14 November 2017 5:22:27 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
//Meanwhile the illegal immigrants continue to arrive by the plane load and outstay their visas//

I think the government are OK with those illegal immigrants because aviation is extremely safe - certainly a good deal safer than taking to the sea in unseaworthy vessels - and thus there aren't alarming rates of drowning during the passage. And because rounding all those extra illegals up and packing them off to some offshore processing facility would cost a packet, and might cause the tide of public opinion to turn against the government.

Non-Anglo-Saxons who don't speak our language are the 'other': it's easier to obtain support for inhumane policies when they're only being directed against the 'other' thanks to people's innate tendencies to xenophobia. But a lot of the fly-in, don't fly-out illegals are Poms: they look like us, they speak our language, we even have the same Queen. They are not the 'other', and bunging them up for years on end in some prison camp would cause public outrage... can't imagine Britain would be too impressed either.
Posted by Toni Lavis, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 4:30:47 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Y,

All laws are based on agreements, and as interdicting people smugglers on the open seas is not illegal, your previous post is essentially pointless.

Toni,

Most visa over stayers leave when approached by immigration, and no poms that claim asylum. Of those over stayers that do claim asylum, most are shipped back pretty quickly as their documentation makes it impossible to make up a BS sob story.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 12:36:26 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Dear SM,

«All laws are based on agreements»

So person 'A' and person 'B' AGREE to eat person 'C' - Bon appétit!
Posted by Yuyutsu, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 4:27:35 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Y,

All cows have 4 legs therefore all animals with 4 legs are cows?
Posted by Shadow Minister, Thursday, 16 November 2017 7:58:14 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Dear SM,

A. Laws are based on agreement.
B. Some agreements are moral.

Does this imply:

C. Laws are moral.

No, it doesn't!
Posted by Yuyutsu, Thursday, 16 November 2017 9:16:17 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Y,

Laws are based on agreement, logic and community morals and expectations and while some are better than others, it is far better than no laws.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Thursday, 16 November 2017 1:26:03 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Dear SM,

Suppose 'A' and 'B' agree to eat 'C'.

They consider it moral to fill their stomach and expect a nice juicy taste.

You call this better and yes, for 'A' and 'B' this could be far better than remaining hungry, but not for 'C'.

What gives them the right to feel better at the expense of 'C's misery?
Posted by Yuyutsu, Thursday, 16 November 2017 2:27:17 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Y,

A it's not legal
B it's not moral
C it's a stupid question.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Friday, 17 November 2017 6:40:31 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Dear SM,

What is:

A. Green.
B. Hangs on the wall; and
C. Whistles.

No idea?

Still no idea ?-?-?

Still no idea at all ?-?-?-?-?

Hehehe, you failed to find the answer - Here it is: http://www.quotes.net/mquote/121709
Posted by Yuyutsu, Friday, 17 November 2017 1:00:26 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. 4
  6. 5
  7. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy