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The Forum > Article Comments > Australia's Constitution: the referenda we need to have > Comments

Australia's Constitution: the referenda we need to have : Comments

By Brendan O'Reilly, published 3/11/2017

Parts of Australia's Constitution clearly are either inappropriate, out-of-date or simply don't work.

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Is Mise, thank you for that. I'm not so much caring about what is, but more about what might be. I do not have ANY faith or trust in people to make decisions that are good for EVERYONE. I am sick of bloody mantra's like 'for the greater good', my arse if it's not good for all of us, shove it. So unless there were to be a new constitution that was for the 'good of all', don't touch the current one. I don't understand if the constitution is a set of rules laid down by our forefathers, like the bible, we must not change it by making insane excuses like 'it's out of date' and so on. The fact that the sleazy politicians wanted to gain favours with the electrate does not justify scheming some way around the original document. So unless I am guaranteed that I will not be compromised in any way, I will never agree to a new constitution. The Republicans will never agree to my demands, so there it is.
Posted by ALTRAV, Sunday, 5 November 2017 3:27:40 PM
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Dear ALTRAV,

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You wrote :

« Banjo, staying with what I have written previously »

No problem, ALTRAV. That’s fine with me. That’s the beauty of democracy. We’re all free to think what we like, to decide what we like and to vote what we like.

However, I noticed you wrote to Is Mise :

« I am sick of bloody mantra's like 'for the greater good', my arse if it's not good for all of us, shove it. So unless there were to be a new constitution that was for the 'good of all', don't touch the current one »

Does that mean that you consider that our present constitution is “good for all of us” ?

That’s certainly not my impression, ALTRAV.
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You add :

« So, unless I am guaranteed that I will not be compromised in any way, I will never agree to a new constitution »
Are you sure you have not already been compromised by the present constitution ?

None of us have voted on it. Perhaps we shall have the opportunity of voting on the next one – though we may no longer be around when the final draft is hammered out and proposed at a referendum.

However, if, by chance, we are still around, ALTRAV, at least you will have the satisfaction of being able to vote “NO!”, if you wish.

Depending on what it looks like, I might too. Who knows ? That is, … if I’m still around !

Wouldn’t that be nice ?

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Posted by Banjo Paterson, Sunday, 5 November 2017 10:55:42 PM
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Banjo, my displeasure is aimed at those who have their way no matter what. As it tuns out I don't recall any 'real' displeasure with the 'original' constitution. Where I am displeased is that it was changed. I happen to be one of those people who see's the constitution not unlike the bible. It is a means of guidance and an instrument to fashion our lives on. I do not care for the changes that were made, sighting keeping up with the times. Just two examples of change and look at the mess those changes have created. Giving the abo's the right to vote. It won't be long and there won't be any more abo's because someone forgot to tell them to be an abo you need BOTH parents to be abo's. As we have so few of them and diminishing every year, I see that was a moot change. What we see today are well tanned (or not) Aussies. I have yet to test the constitution to asses your comments about it failing me. If it fails me it won't be the constitution, it will be the legal profession promoting the bidding for the elite. BTW I still have not had any comments on why we are not 'judged' by 12 of our piers, in courts as the current situation is in clear breach of the constitution. So you see Banjo this is just one such example of why I don't want a new constitution. I'll stick with the old one especially when it pisses off the big boys and their ability to run amok.
Posted by ALTRAV, Monday, 6 November 2017 12:49:38 AM
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If we threw the Constitution open for a rewrite the resulting prolonged public barney would dwarf the current chook fight over marriage laws. Government would stop dead for months, maybe even years.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Monday, 6 November 2017 8:59:57 PM
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Dear ALTRAV,

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Thank you for explaining your world view as it applies to the constitution. I respect your reverence of the bible, though, personally, do not hold it as a sacred document but, rather, as an anthology of monotheistic mythology, similar to Greek, Norse and Roman mythology.

Nor do I hold the constitution in reverence. Having painstakingly waded through reams of accounts of the (sometimes fierce and conflictual) political discussions leading up to the adoption of the final draft, I am persuaded that it was the best compromise possible when it was established.

As you say: “It is a means of guidance and an instrument to fashion our lives on”. But, unlike you, I am loath to consider that any politician in the 1890s, endowed with even the most extraordinary sagacity and foresight, possessed the ability to foresee the needs of society one hundred years later. I don’t think any politician has ever had that vision, and probably never will.

The constitution is the result of the confrontation of conflicting political interests at a particular point of time in the colonial history of Australia. Those interests evolve and change over time. You can bet your boots that if the same politicians were alive today, they would produce a completely different constitution.

If it is to be “a means of guidance and an instrument to fashion our lives on”, then it must not be allowed to turn to stone. It has to evolve.

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(Continued …)

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Posted by Banjo Paterson, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 2:28:27 AM
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(Continued …)

.

You added :

« BTW I still have not had any comments on why we are not 'judged' by 12 of our piers, in courts as the current situation is in clear breach of the constitution »
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This is another “hole” in the constitution that needs to be fixed, ALTRAV. But, as I previously opined, there are so many holes in our rusty old colonial bucket (the constitution), we need to get a new one as soon as realistically practicable, i.e., as soon as we become a republic.

I think you will find that most constitutional scholars and practitioners consider that the text of s80 (Trial by jury) of the constitution is, at best, ambiguous and requires clarification.

It has been suggested that trial by jury should apply in respect of offences punishable by more than twelve months' imprisonment. In my view, even this would be too great a burden on society. It seems more reasonable to me to limit trial by jury to offences punishable by at least ten years imprisonment.

Here is an article on the question by Graham Fricke QC, who was a barrister and trial judge for many years in Victoria and, I understand, is now retired :

http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/rp/RP9697/97rp11

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Posted by Banjo Paterson, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 2:33:48 AM
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