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The Forum > Article Comments > Electricity politics > Comments

Electricity politics : Comments

By David Leyonhjelm, published 9/10/2017

The best recipe for certainty is a contest of policies leading to the long term consignment of the party with the crazy policy to the opposition benches.

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Much, much lower electricity prices and zero emissions are not mutually incompatible goals! It's is a great big fat lie to say it's either either! In fact we could have electricity prices, where the median is 1.98 cents PKH!

Repeat, 1.98 cents PKH!

I say this as a former power authority worker employed in a science related capacity.

What's actually possible and ought to be on the table and just for economic reasons alone, is nuclear power!

Not just any nuclear power but that nuclear power abandoned in the seventies, because it couldn't be weaponized!

And preferred by the inventor and patent holder of the first working reactor Alvin Weinberg, who saw the difficulties inherent in operating a machine at 300 atmospheres of pressure and which trapped highly radioactive xenon gas inside the core that could eventually rupture the fuel rod assembly with disastrous consequences.

Expanding highly radioactive xenon gas was implicated in the Chernobyl disaster!?

We're talking about pressures that need a solid steel single piece container of nine inch thick steel without weld seams!

And only made in one place in the world. And very expensive!

A good enough reason to reject light and heavy water reactors and the waste products they produce, in favor of what Alvin an industrial chemist promoted, with twenty years of research and backed by a five year incident and accident free field trial.

Walk away safe, molten salt, thorium. This machine burns virtually all its fuel, with the remaining 1% "waste" product being eminently suitable as long life space batteries.

The asbestos industries employed lots of folk mining the product and incorporating in into all manner of products!

And we survived the abandonment in more numbers, when we chose health and pragmatism over the millions a few folk and their political support acquired, when we exited asbestos!

I dare say we can employ former coal miners, in all manner of nuclear powered manufacture, without them risking terminal black lung disease! But only if their long term health, [the economy stupid,] and much much lower electricity price outcomes, matter!
TBC. Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Monday, 9 October 2017 10:12:51 AM
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“Voters want low electricity prices as well as lower greenhouse gas emissions. The lie that they can have both has been sold by politicians, but voters have lapped it up.”

Never a truer word..........

Can we really be that stupid when “...we are not succeeding in reducing global greenhouse gas emissions. Emissions are rising rapidly, with countries that make up more than half of global emissions increasing their output each year at a bewildering pace.” ? Well, yes, we obviously are that stupid – or at least 80% of us are. And, stupid people get stupid politicians.

Coal is the only way.
Posted by ttbn, Monday, 9 October 2017 10:17:56 AM
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Let me conclude, with some references to various expertise and industrious prize winning investigative Journalism.

First cab off the rank ought be, Super Fuel, sub titled green energy.

And required informative reading by anyone who actually gives a rats about Australia, her economy and or economic advantages! And encapsulated by the author in a short tutorial, on google tech talks.

Then go to, Making Safe Nuclear Power from thorium/Thomas Jam Pedersen/TedxCopenhagen!

Then if you need or want further expert corroboration?

Well some pollies are denser than Thorium. Which by the way, is the most energy dense material in the world, David!

Go to, the case for thorium, scroll down the page to a, top documentary film, from google tech talks. To take in an informative and entertaining video, where the principal speaker Kirk Sorensen, ably assisted by several scientific colleagues, will leave in no doubt, where we should be heading and why!

And even if a climate change sceptic, David? On irrefutable economic reasons alone!

And That northern nickel refinery only needs truly affordable energy some refurbishment and modernisation? To get back into full and ramped up production!Ditto Australian car manufacture!

In fact, the world's cheapest, cleanest, safest energy. Walk away safe, molten salt thorium, opens up more doors and interest than we could possibly handle and may be forced to pick and choose!?

Where Australian co-op based partnerships, could get first pick!?

And you could give me that job if you want a convenient scapegoat to blame if any of it goes pear shaped?

My preference, wherever possible, will be the cooperative model and exactly how to get that nickel refinery up and running again, among a host of resuscitated and brand spanking new opportunities!

And possibly the only way we the taxpayer are ever going to get off the hook here!?

IT'S THE ECONOMY STUPID! Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Monday, 9 October 2017 10:48:32 AM
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Maybe 15 years ago there was an article that stated Australia's energy prices were too low and needed to rise in order to attract investment.
(The article may even be on this site)
Posted by Wolly B, Monday, 9 October 2017 11:12:59 AM
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What prevents peaceful R+D into Nuclear energy?

Nothing save moribund asinine regulations and vested interest!?

And assisted by pollies who just want to stir the pot for political reason/advantage/survival? Rather than actually giving a rats about the future of our kids and their grandkids, David!

I say this based on the before our very eyes evidence of two decades of diabolical dithering, David, where the only goal was to win and then by just making the other side seem silly?

Even more so if they ever have the unmitigated temerity to propose practical, bipartisan pragmatism or evidence based economic conclusions!

Or being forced to wear responsibility for outcomes or pick winners!

Even where incontrovertible evidence leaves no other choice!

Except for, when against the vested interest of (s)he, who must be Obied and fellow traveler, coal fired cohorts and cronies? Or divide and rule, One Nation? An oxymoron if ever there was one?

Unless it's that cohort (40% of us) that understands neither the economy nor politics!? And the fixed attitude/political alliance (N0 NO NEVER, I'LL DIE IN A DITCH FIRST) that decides elections?

And obviously, the only plane as the nose on your face, game in town and more profitable than endless fish and chip frying!

IT'S THE ECONOMY STUPID! AIN'T THAT THE PLANE TRUTH!

RUN FOR THEM THAR HILLS, HE'S TALKING ABOUT NUCLEAR ENERGY!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Monday, 9 October 2017 11:45:24 AM
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'If the climatologists are correct, we're screwed,'

that would certainly be a first. Finally Turnbull being dragged by a nose ring is about to scrap subsidies for overpriced unreliable renewables. He is a very slow learner but much faster than Shorten.
Posted by runner, Monday, 9 October 2017 3:46:10 PM
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runner: We're only screwed because we refuse to face facts!

The first being power is just too expensive for most industrial processes.

If we would have a manufacturing base? And essential for our self reliant security!

We need affordable power!

For the steel industry and electric arc furnaces.

If we make steel here, more affordable on a global market, we can undercut Chinese steel!

Were we to take that route and we could! Most coal and iron ore mining could continue apace, until well into the next century!

And no displaced worker would be on the scrap heap very long!

Yet exactly where most are heading without some very dramatic and pragmatic policy change that puts Australia and Australians first and foremost! And the sovereign risk of carpetbagging, debt laden, tax avoiding, profit repatriating foreigners last!

We have abundant local expertise and a two trillion dollar super fund, which could, with wise legislation! Leverage another two trillion of lazy money now cooling its heels in corporate coffers!

If wisely led, enable those aforementioned funds, to create myriad employee owned and operated co-ops? To get all manner of manufacture and production happening/all able bodied folk who want to work gainfully employed in an employment paradigm; that keeps our money here doing the economic work of seven times as much money.

As opposed to the endless drain and premiums at the checkout, compounded by endless captive market price gouging!

Affordable carbon free energy is one key! Intelligent, real tax reform is the other!

Coal fired power should be progressively replaced by massively more efficient far less costly thorium!

If the diabolical dithers need time to divest themselves and their trusts whatever, of shares in thermal coal projects etc? We should give them all the time they need to make that adjustment!

Say, until this Christmas? Any longer and we'll surely know? They're and have been just having a lend of us and our real concerns for all those who follow!

Can we do vastly better?

Yes we can! And time!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Monday, 9 October 2017 5:19:42 PM
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Alan B if this thorium molten salt is so easy and cheap why was it never adopted? Please do not tell me that any company seeing this opportunity would not be straight into it?
The real answer is a very large brown coal power station in the Latrobe Valley. If the Libs put this in as policy and with a defined very low price for consumers they would romp home. The ABC and attendant gliterati will squeal but they always do so they can elect to pay extra to the large power utilities themselves.
Posted by JBowyer, Monday, 9 October 2017 5:58:24 PM
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'Coal fired power should be progressively replaced by massively more efficient far less costly thorium!"

That is the way to go. But as that is not politically correct as renewables are left out of the picture, the two major parties will not listen, and Australia will continue to go down the gurgler.
Posted by Raycom, Monday, 9 October 2017 8:27:16 PM
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Joe Room, Physicist; has made a comment to the effect that we are not doomed, but choosing to be doomed.

Trump has blamed Puerto Rico for putting the US budget out of whack. The combined costs of Harvey, Irma, Maria and wildfires on the West Coast of the US are said to be up to $300 million.
Since those storms Costa Rica, Nicoragua, Montana US, Germany, Poland, Norway, India, Indonesia, Brazil,and Mexico have been hit by major storms. The kind of storms where cars are inundated; trucks turned over, and major damage to housing happens. These events occurred between 1 -8 October 2017, Bundaberg had a mention in relation to a tornado.
Also, there have been 1,500 structures burnt in wild fires in California.#

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3SF9c97_KM&feature=share

#http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-napa-fires-20171009-story.html

There have been 34 similar films created about extreme weather since 20-22 June 2017.

Oceans are warming as is the atmosphere, a recipe for rain bombs happening where huge amounts of rain falls in a very short period.

https://eos.org/opinions/taking-the-pulse-of-the-planet
Posted by ant, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 8:55:46 AM
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Whoops, costs for the major storms was $300 billion, not 300 million.

An annotated version of the Wallace-Wells New York Times which caused much controversy when originally published.
No doubt home owners who comment on On Line Opinion have insurance on their homes and contents; even though, the risk of homes being lost by fire is quite remote. The Wallace-Wells annotated article suggests risk factors are high in relation to climate change.

A number of references provide evidence to show how temperature has impact on the strength obtained by Tropical Storms.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-04/cyclone-and-extreme-weather-events-intensifying-bom-says/8869042

http://www.newscientist.com/article/2146562-hurricane-irmas-epic-size-is-being-fuelled-by-global-warming/

http://insideclimatenews.org/news/06092017/hurricane-irma-harvey-climate-change-warm-atlantic-ocean-questions

http://www.wired.com/story/what-are-the-odds-of-a-super-storm-like-harvey/

http://time.com/4933743/hurricane-irma-climate-change-global-warming/

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-41082668

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/09/08/549280066/hurricanes-are-sweeping-the-atlantic-whats-the-role-of-climate-change

http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=132&v=9mKC49AUVUo
Posted by ant, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 11:00:25 AM
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What Alan B says about thorium is basically correct but so far no
prototype is up and running. Both India & China are working on them,
but any result is some years away.
No one will invest until it is proven.
In the meantime we can continue with coal fired stations.
We have no need to rush down the solar/wind/battery path with its enormous costs.
"ENORMOUS COSTS" you scream ! Yes if you want 24/7 guaranteed power
come rain shine & hail.
It falls down because of battery recharging after overcast still days.
The battery costs will overwhelm everything else.
Posted by Bazz, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 6:04:12 PM
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well that's it then....we drill down to the core...pump salt water in....we get the steam to drive the turbines and the core uses the salt as fuel
prospectus on investment to be released soon
Posted by ilmessaggio, Thursday, 12 October 2017 3:37:47 AM
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Bazz is right. Renewables is and always has been a fantasy. Those in the know will tell us that the size and nature of these 'green' power generators, would be so out of scale in both size and amenity. The green dreamers are living in a factual void and believe in the mantra, 'build it and they will come'. Well the technology and ideas have not yet been realised or imagined that will produce the kind of power we require and at the reliability we require it. This current talk of batteries is so one hundred years ago, it shows us just how stupid pollies and the greens, really are. With enough power stations co-operating with each other, if there is a problem with one power station they simply isolate that one from the grid and the others take the load. The 'others' form the battery. The problem we are facing is greed. The power industry was sold off and all these criminals are holding the country to ransom. eg; South Aust. We should never have allowed the sale of national services like power and water, just to name two. I strongly endorse the repatriation of these 'public' utilities forthwith. Unfortunately for the dreamers the immediate and short term solution to the energy problem IS coal. It ticks all the boxes, if only the green dreamers would just shut up and actually look at the problem with an open mind and not a mindset. Currently there is no other better technology than nuclear which again ticks all the long term boxes. While the public sit on their hands and believe what the pollies are telling them, we will get no-where. We have given in to the stupid green movement, who BTW are just another political party trying to make themselves relevant, we have created these 'green' power sources. The stupidity and irony of these people is, that they push for an inefficient and under producing costly system and create a huge visual pollution as a result.
Posted by ALTRAV, Thursday, 12 October 2017 9:04:46 AM
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