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The Forum > Article Comments > Apprehension about Islam > Comments

Apprehension about Islam : Comments

By Babette Francis, published 8/3/2017

It is important to draw a distinction between

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Hear, hear and well said Babette, we need to ensure we remain alert but not alarmed, with regard to Islam, but refrain from simply punishing ordinary Muslims, who are at most risk from this inherent, brainwashed from birth, evil?

Not everyone is at war with the world! Some just want to live in peaceful cohabitation and seek the best possible outcomes for all humanity, their sisters and brothers and the homeworld that succors us all!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Wednesday, 8 March 2017 9:05:38 AM
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Very wise words, Babette.

Our political leaders should do more to speak up for the victims of Islam (including, as you say, Muslims themselves, especially women) instead of sucking up to Islam's official spokesmen and pretending that they share Australian values.
Posted by Solon, Wednesday, 8 March 2017 9:30:49 AM
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Being the worlds 'largest religion' doesn't really matter. Being the worlds largest fascist, totalitarian and murderous organisation of earth is what really matters. Islam is not just a relgion; it is all of the other things too.

Islam will eventually rule the world, no matter how long it takes. That is inevitable, simply because most non-Muslims are too stupid or too disinterested to learn the truth about Islam. The Ottoman empire endured for 12 Centuries, to be thwarted by the enlightened, Christian West. Western colonisation lifted the burden on the Muslim dhimma for a few centuries but, as Western empires backed off, Islam returned, and it has been gradually returning since.

Immigration to the West is part is the beginning of the global caliphate. Islam cannot beat us militarily, but it can beat us through infiltration, with the help of our own corrupt elites. History is repeating itself. And we no longer have the enlightened Western empires, who have been dragged to the ground by the very people supposed to be defending them.
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 8 March 2017 9:33:33 AM
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Being the worlds 'largest religion' doesn't really matter. Being the worlds largest fascist, totalitarian and murderous organisation of earth is what really matters. Judaism is not just a relgion; it is all of the other things too.

Jews will eventually rule the world, no matter how long it takes. That is inevitable, simply because most non-Jews are too stupid or too disinterested to learn the truth about Judaism. The Jewish empire endured for 12 Centuries, to be thwarted by the enlightened, Christian West. Western colonisation lifted the burden on the Jewish dhimma for a few centuries but, as Western empires backed off, Judaism returned, and it has been gradually returning since.

Immigration to the West is part is the beginning of the global caliphate. Judaism cannot beat us militarily, but it can beat us through infiltration, with the help of our own corrupt elites. History is repeating itself. And we no longer have the enlightened Western empires, who have been dragged to the ground by the very people supposed to be defending them.

Pretty disgusting hey?
Just a little experiment to see if you bigots realise the filth that you write is wrong and evil and no different to the nazis.
Posted by mikk, Wednesday, 8 March 2017 10:13:42 AM
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Muslims, per se, are not the problem; the problem is the anti-democratic political movement known as Islam.

As ttbn says, immigration to the West is part is the beginning of the global caliphate; but then that makes individual Muslims part of the problem, for no matter what their good intentions when Islam gains a position of some power then ordinary Muslims will be forced to take their place in the problem.

What we need is politicians with some guts.
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 8 March 2017 10:18:04 AM
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Catastrophic thinking in my view.
Looking forward through the lens of time in the 70's, at a deteriorating democracy and the Vietnam war turmoil, it was hard to imagine what world awaited any children of the time. But guess what, those same children think these current times are normal.
An Islamic world in 2070? Maybe. That's if the possibility of a habitable world awaits anybody. An all out global war or environmental catastrophe, seem a more plausible cause for concern than Islam.

But the gist of the article is a warning about the dangers of the Muslim sects. Well, that's up to Muslims themselves to work out surely. The question is for them, do they wish to live in a peaceful and progressive community? We have laws of the land that ensure all communities are protected from extreme "anything" that causes harm. So pay the price!

Our government is not responsible for those outcomes. Until these matters are settled among Muslims themselves, and there is evidence of an acceptable level of respect and appreciation for peace in this land, then I agree to limits on migration from areas where these people demonstrate their opposition to Western ideals of peaceful living. Peace is the priority in anybody's life!
It is government responsibility to vet-out the undesirables.

What I don't agree with, is the panicked responses against Islamic communities in this country, by radical elements in our own host society.
This author totally ignored that painful point! Muslims in our communities are suffering form outright hostilities in shopping centres and other public places. There is an open warfare on peaceful Muslim communities. This must stop first and foremost, before any reformations with Islam.

I think this author is telling people what they wish to hear...I give it a fail!
Posted by diver dan, Wednesday, 8 March 2017 11:09:35 AM
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It is very disappointing that the government had to learn the hard way that Muslims are not suitable as immigrants. Surely we can help people where they are but our government should not put Australians at risk by allowing many Muslims into Australia. For those interested Bernard Gaynor, former Major in intelligence in Afghanistan, has made a very good video blog on his experiences dealing with Islamic terror. He makes the point that our commitments to Iraq and Afghanistan were doomeed to failure because we were replacing one group of bad guys with another. Go to Google and look up Bernard Gaynor and Afghanistan. The video is very shocking and very informative and is in sync with Babette's article.
Posted by Gadfly42, Wednesday, 8 March 2017 11:55:13 AM
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How can we distinguish between Islam and Muslims. Muslims ( we used to call them Mohamedans) are followers of the teachings of Mohammed.
According the Arabic texts ( hadiths) Mohamed "married" a 6 year old girl Aisha ( 'married" is in quotes as to talk about marriage of a six year is sickening).In the year 622 of the Christian Era he "consummated" the "marriage when she was 9.
If alive in Australia today he would be in gaol as a paedophile.

From the hadiths we know that in in year 627 of the Christian Era Mohammed conquered a Jewish Qurayzah tribe, beheaded all adult males and enslaved the women and children.

If alive today he would be in gaol as a war criminal.

In the Koran he advises his followers to do the beating of their wives away from the house.

In the Koran he approves of giving prisoners of war the choice of conversion to Islam or death.

If you are a Muslim, by definition, you follow the teaching of Mohammed.

Therefore, if you are a Muslim, your moral parameters have been set by a wife beating paedophile war criminal.

Therefore, if you are a Muslim, you are not a fit and proper person to cast a vote in a country that aspires to be a liberal democracy.

-- or to be a citizen of such a country.

The production of such a belief system of people who cut off heads of prisoners of war and have their children hold up the head for the camera is a natural result of that belief system.

Read the Koran and hadiths. It is all proudly on record in Arabic and translations are available.
Posted by Old Man, Wednesday, 8 March 2017 12:12:10 PM
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Diver Dan says: “Muslims in our communities are suffering form outright hostilities in shopping centres and other public places. There is an open warfare on peaceful Muslim communities.”

Golly gosh! Just like the things Muslims are doing to innocents all over the world – NOT!

Come on, Dan. A little bit of abuse to people purposefully parading themselves as Muslims by way of dress is very a small response from a few frustrated people who have had these aliens planted in their suburbs. You are exposing yourself as an apologist for Islam and undesirable immigration.

Anyone stupid enough to go around, covered up like some freak from the Middle Ages in a modern society which they have intruded on deserves everything they get. While I would not abuse anyone myself, I certainly have no sympathy for your manfactured 'victims'. Thousands of immigrants have come to Australia, prepared to fit in, but Muslims have refused to do so. They are part of the oncoming Islamisation.

Muslims should be as unwelcome as the KKK in any Western society.
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 8 March 2017 1:22:45 PM
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Diver, you criticise those "right wingers" but they are being realistic.
We can see already a creeping Islam in Sydney. The affair at Punchbowl
boys school follows the program "Trojan Horse" set up in Birmingham
high schools in the UK.
The political correct attitude shown by the media to "Islamaphobia"
illustrates exactly what is the problem.

You need to examine what is happening in Europe.
The European laws are being pushed aside and Sharia legal areas established.
In the UK Sharia courts are legal and recognised. Appeals can be made
to the British courts but it seldom happens.

Re Islamaphobia, it does not exist because fear of Islam is not a phobia it is real.
Canada has made Islamaphobia a criminal offence !
If I published a book that advocated the killing of moslems I might
be fined for a "Hate Crime" or be up to the Human Rights Commission
on a racial charge, even though Islam is not a race. No one seems
to understand the difference.

No, the problem is very real and organisations like Australian Liberty
Alliance and One Nation are being very realistic.
Posted by Bazz, Wednesday, 8 March 2017 1:40:01 PM
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Have you read the bible old man?
It contains just as much, if not more, filth and immorality than the koran.

The god of the xians supports and encourages

slavery, (Leviticus 25:44-46, Exodus 21:2-6, Ephesians 6:5, 1 Timothy 6:1-2)
murdering your own children, (Deuteronomy 21:18–21, Genesis 22)
genocide, (1 Sam 15:1;3, Joshua 6:21,Genesis 7:4)
ethnic cleansing, (Deuteronomy 7:1-11, 2 Samuel 10:18)
pedophilia, (Numbers 31:1-18, Deuteronomy 20:10-14)
rape, (Judges 19:25-28, Numbers 31:7-18, Deuteronomy 22:28-29, 2 Samuel 13)
extortion, (1 Samuel 2:12-17)
and incest. (Genesis 19:30-38, Genesis 4, 2 Samuel 13, II Kings 13:1-2)
Just for starters.

So your assertions should also read....
Therefore, if you are a christian, you are not a fit and proper person to cast a vote in a country that aspires to be a liberal democracy.

-- or to be a citizen of such a country.

Agreed?
Posted by mikk, Wednesday, 8 March 2017 1:58:53 PM
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Surely Mikk you cannot be as disconnected from reality as your post suggests.
Everyone understands all those evens you list are just where Islam's
ideas and practises came from anyway.
It is just that Christianity dumped those attitudes long ago.

In Islam they believe that the Koran cannot be changed, not even a full stop.
So, they still practise what was laid down by Allah and they MUST obey.
Posted by Bazz, Wednesday, 8 March 2017 2:27:25 PM
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While your points are well made Mikk. Quoting from an irrelevant anachronism, may suit the needs of your argument, but not the unvarnished truth!

Christians aren't guided by very much of the old testament, save the ten commandments. Whereas, the Quran remains relatively intact and or hugely misrepresented by cult like sects inside the broad church that is Islam; and where the least revised version would seem to be, the Sofie tradition?

Which is arguably responsible for most of the conversion of former non Muslim Asia, with the largest Muslim democracy being next door neighbor indonesia, once largely Hindu?

Malaysia is said to be moderate, but mostly Muslim, which seems to have allowed corrupt self serving leaders to hold sway?

At the end of the day, an inculcated from birth belief system is not worth the paper it is written on, if it fails to moderate corrupt behavior or the self evident trashing of a professed belief system?

That said, I believe all those guided by the "book", believe as a core principle, that there is no place in paradise for those who, deliberately and knowingly, and in the absence of any extenuating circumstances, spill so much as a single drop of innocent blood!

Let alone chop off heads, rape, murder, pillage, crucify, bury alive etc/etc, simply because they, allegedly, don't share an unproven, unprovable belief system, or the patent homophobia central to it?

I think homosexually when practised among consenting adults, and that does not in any way describe me!

Is vastly less offensive than marrying six year old girls, or consummated in that marriage, when a child still not able to give informed consent, is subjected to the unimaginable evil horror/terror, that is consummation aged just nine.

And at the sword wielding hands of an alleged man of God, moral arbiter and founder of anything, actually having the moral authority of God backing it!

And before too many hackles are raised, the same critique applies equally to warrior Popes and or, boy buggering Bishops, at the head of bloodthirsty murdering "Christian" hordes!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Wednesday, 8 March 2017 3:22:32 PM
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the abc conitnues to find leftist idiots who are happy to be used by Islam to promote their cause. At the root of their hypocrisy and stupidity is their hatred for Christianity because it exposes their perverted lifestyles.

and no ttbn although I usually agree with you on much, Islam won't rule the world. Read the end of the book. When all godless pereverted kingdoms are done (including secularism) Christ will rule. I suspect many secularist also know this despite their mocking and denials.
Posted by runner, Wednesday, 8 March 2017 3:39:36 PM
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A quick examination of this author's posting history reveals her to be one of those annoying religious-right type Christians who think that the best way to praise the Lord is to go about forcing their morality on everybody else.

Make no mistake here; Ms. Francis is not in favour of secularism or liberal philosophy: these reason she objects so strongly to Muslims is because they belong to the wrong religion - along with everybody else who doesn't embrace her narrow interpretation of Christianity.

It's the sort of hate-mongering sectarianism that helped to fuel the Troubles in Ireland. The intelligence and law-enforcement officials that actually risk their lives to keep us safe from terrorists all agree that this kind of speech which demonises all Muslims for the misdeeds of a tiny subset of Muslims is unhelpful, counter-productive and hence dangerous.

But what does Ms. Francis care if her careless speech endangers people's safety? These days everybody is so fiercely possessive of their right to free speech that they think it is OK to shout 'Fire!' in a crowded theatre - and she has her own little Christian jihad to fight.

//Muslims should be as unwelcome as the KKK in any Western society.//

I reckon it can't be long now before somebody demonstrates the superiority of liberal Western values by setting fire to a crescent on the front lawn of a 'sand-něgger'. And I daresay that when they do, there'll be a few of the forum's usual suspects applauding their strong and principled stand against religious violence and oppression - without a single hint of irony or sarcasm.
Posted by Toni Lavis, Wednesday, 8 March 2017 3:41:13 PM
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"Christians aren't guided by very much of the old testament, save the ten commandments."

Really?
Dont most xians believe it is the unerring word of god?
Dont they believe in the story of creation from genesis?
What about Noah, Abraham, Moses? Dont xians believe their stories?
What about the bits they use to justify their homophobia?

Where in scripture does it tell you which bits are true and which bits arent?
I dont remember any footnotes saying "dont believe this bit" when I read the bible.

Is it "the word of god" or not? Is it true or not?

"That said, I believe all those guided by the "book", believe as a core principle, that there is no place in paradise for those who, deliberately and knowingly, and in the absence of any extenuating circumstances, spill so much as a single drop of innocent blood!"

So the isrealites who were freed from Egypt and then committed genocide on the Caananites are going to heaven are they?
The crusaders, the inquisitors, the witch burners. Did they not know about this "core principle"?
Posted by mikk, Wednesday, 8 March 2017 3:49:30 PM
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It is surprising that certain people in high places assert that Islam is a religion of peace.

Is it too much to ask that they acquaint themselves with the Koran -- unless of course they take pride in being seen as (ignorant but) politically correct?
Posted by Raycom, Wednesday, 8 March 2017 4:20:31 PM
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Dear Old Man,

«If alive in Australia today he would be in gaol as a paedophile.»
«If alive today he would be in gaol as a war criminal.»
«In the Koran he advises his followers to do the beating of their wives away from the house.»

Have you heard about a fair trial?
Where is the evidence?

All the stuff that you read in the Koran and Hadith is rubbish that was written no earlier than 790A.D., that is about 160 years after Muhammad's death by Arab gangsters who never knew Muhammad (peace be upon him) and never respected his true teachings. This includes the prophet's alleged wars, alleged wives and alleged violent teachings - it's all libel, the Saint Muhammad was a humble person who lived peacefully in a cave and had little to do with the world - he has been framed, or in modern terms, been a victim of identity-theft!

All you need in order to stop Islamic violence, is for Muslims to realise the above and rather than forsake Allah - forsake those fake books, become true Muslims by surrendering to Allah and follow the true and benevolent teachings of the real Muhammad, peace be upon him!
Posted by Yuyutsu, Wednesday, 8 March 2017 4:23:31 PM
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Ah yes the one true teachings of the one true Prophet. And even more unprovable today than when first committed to paper 760 years after? Even so used to either mask or justify all manner of Godless behavior having the claimed seal of divine Authority.

We know this because, Men who claimed to know the mind of God have testified with hand placed on "Holy Book" that it is indisputably so!?

And questioning that statement, outright blasphemy and deserving of ritual beheading? An excellent way to still all questioning and dissent or instil blind obedience to self proclaimed Authority figures?
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Wednesday, 8 March 2017 5:14:11 PM
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Toni and Mikk show they are either totally ignorant and deceitful when it comes to Christianity. How could they possibly have any discernment when it comes to Islam? Then again our PM again showed his total ignorance last night on the news.
Posted by runner, Wednesday, 8 March 2017 5:31:39 PM
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runner you are the most ignorant and deceitful person here if we go by your post history. Never once have you offered anything more than insults and platitudes. You have never explained your beliefs. You have never engaged in debate. You have never shown you understand theology, the bible, anything.
What exactly are you runner.
Im leaning towards troll.
Posted by mikk, Wednesday, 8 March 2017 6:51:03 PM
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mikk you are the most ignorant and deceitful person here if we go by your post history. Never once have you offered anything more than insults and platitudes. You have never explained your beliefs. You have never engaged in debate. You have never shown you understand Islam, the State, anything.
What exactly are you mikk.
Im leaning towards troll.
Posted by Jardine K. Jardine, Wednesday, 8 March 2017 7:47:32 PM
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With due respect to the writer, 90 of your assertion on this topic either false or twisted. It is this kind of pen which sows the seeds of hatred and bigotry. Obsession with negativity will only breed gloom and division between communities.
Salam alaikum (peace be on you) a common phrase of followers of Islam for you.
Posted by Khannj, Thursday, 9 March 2017 3:18:38 AM
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One of the major reasons why the Left is reluctant to criticise Islam is because they see that Islamic countries are being systemically destroyed by Western foreign policy.

Islamic peoples are being violently forced from the countries of their birth, and their culture that is thousands of years old, because US-led proxy wars have left their countries no longer fit to live in.

The irony is that it is mostly secular, progressive Islamic countries that have been targeted for regime change - Iraq, Libya and now Syria - while the most fundamentalist, regressive Islamic regimes such as Saudi Arabia and, to a lesser extent, Jordan are given full Western support. Now the Houthi rebels in Yemen are the latest Islamic fundamentalists to receive US funding via Saudi Arabia. (Expect many Yemeni refugees to flock to our shores very soon.)

Even Afghanistan, deemed to be one of the most fundamentalist Islamic countries on earth, was once a secular-leftist regime that gave women equal rights and initiated long overdue land-reform. However, US foreign policy decided to finance and train the fundamentalist Islamic Mujahadeen (later morphed into the Taliban) to overthrow the regime as part of its Cold War against the Soviet Union. Now, after thirty+ years of war, Afghanistan is now (like Iraq and Libya) a complete Islamic-fundamentalist mess.

If you don't like Muslims flowing into our countries, then start questioning why they are coming here in their hundreds of thousands. They are not here to spread their Mohammadist 'violent' religion. They are here because of basic necessity and survival.

If the West had left Islamic countries alone, then they would have gone through their own 'Enlightenment' and progressed into the modern world. Unfortunately, that Enlightenment proved too 'leftist' for US capitalist interests.
Posted by Killarney, Thursday, 9 March 2017 5:35:41 AM
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//mikk you are the most... etc.//

Wow, really? Defending runner?

If I was you, JKJ, I'd find somebody who is less of an arsehole than runner to white knight for. Because unless you're willing to accept that God made the world 6,000 years ago and that the fossil record was laid down in am impossible flood - guess what? Runner hates you too.
Posted by Toni Lavis, Thursday, 9 March 2017 6:47:19 AM
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Wow, really? Defending mikk?

If I was you, Tony, I'd find somebody who is less of an arsehole than mikk to prostitute your mental vagina for. Because unless you're willing to accept that this http://www.thereligionofpeace.com doesn't exist - guess what? mikk hates you too.

What is it with the leftards' lately fashionable adoration and flying to the defence of Islam.

All of a sudden they're pretending to be libertarians - BWAHAHAHAHAHA!
Posted by Jardine K. Jardine, Thursday, 9 March 2017 7:17:00 AM
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Well, come on Kannj, where is the rest of your post proving that “ 90 of your assertion on this topic either false or twisted”?

You sound like another Muslim, totally ignorant of Islam, just parroting what you have been told to say by the mad mullahs.
Posted by ttbn, Thursday, 9 March 2017 8:47:10 AM
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Killarney says:

"If the West had left Islamic countries alone, then they would have gone through their own 'Enlightenment' and progressed into the modern world."

And pigs might fly! Islam cannot, and will not, go " though their own enlightenment" because Islam cannot be changed by man. Islam is the word of Allah, passed onto the the illiterate madman, Muhammed, never to be altered.

Before you pontificate on Islam, should should learn something about it.
Posted by ttbn, Thursday, 9 March 2017 8:54:10 AM
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Ttbn

An apologist for Islam?

I have a position on this subject. Quite frankly I'm ambivalent to it. And unlike most of the panic stricken out there, I see the population of Muslims in Australia to be insignificant in term of that cohort being manageable by normal means of state authority; meaning normal policing.
That conclusion of course, comes with the proviso that those authorities are not ham-strung by the human rights commission, or some other unknown interference, in their duty to police effectively!

My other position on the subject is this. Whether or not we approve of a particular ethnic group in our communities, they have basic rights. One of those is free movement in public without harassment over their religious beliefs. It's a fundamental!
It is the moronic radical class in our own society which is overriding that right.
It's seems you may be moving your own views in alignment with them, are you not?
Posted by diver dan, Thursday, 9 March 2017 10:07:32 AM
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Bazz...

I never defend the obviously indefensible !

Problem with Europe on this subject is the open borders policy. That is the main-call for the exit of GB from the Euro.. There onto it!

We are not in that league with the problem. If not for Abbott we may well have been though!

Many Muslims are removing their children from Islamic schools and replanting them into the secular Public system. There into it!
Posted by diver dan, Thursday, 9 March 2017 10:29:02 AM
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mikk you are the most ignorant and deceitful person here if we go by your post history. Oh how clever are you JKJ.
Never once have you offered anything more than insults and platitudes. Liar.
You have never explained your beliefs. Liar. If you cant discern my beliefs from just todays posts then you are an idiot.
You have never engaged in debate. Liar. The proof is in black and white in this very thread.
You have never shown you understand Islam, the State, anything. Says who? Why? The posts I replied to were attacking muslims. My posts were attacking christians. Why do I have to understand islam? I didnt say anything about Islam. Just because I attacked xianity does not mean I am defending islam you fool.
I understand the state all too well and if you havent noticed agree with a lot of your anti state arguments. I just apply them to capitalism and the church as well. Unlike you.
What exactly are you mikk. I am an anarchist athiest logical person. Unlike you. You right wing objectivist elitist scumbag.
Im leaning towards troll. Yeah unlike you and the runner who just spout BS and dont even bother to you have any sort of coherent argument.The very definition of troll
Posted by mikk, Thursday, 9 March 2017 11:08:06 AM
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Hi Killarney,

You suggest that: "If the West had left Islamic countries alone, then they would have gone through their own 'Enlightenment' and progressed into the modern world."

My jaw dropped at that: apart from the Crusaders' attempt to win back Christian countries and regions which had been invaded by the Muslims, the 'West' didn't really have any power except to 'leave Islamic countries alone' (I'm presuming you mean the various Muslim empires ? The Moors, Mongols, Tamurlaine, the Seljuks, Ottomans, et al. who had a pretty free hand for a thousand years - from the mythical time of Muhammad until, say, the siege of Vienna in 1689).

A thousand years to freely develop their own 'Enlightenment': how did that go ? At first, piggy-backing on the combined knowledge of the Byzantines and the invaded Jews and Christians across their empire, yes, there may have been a flowering of ideas. But after that ? Say from 1000 to 1850 ? Eight hundred and fifty years of relative non-interference to develop their own 'Enlightenment' ? And the results ? The dead hand of absolutism, backwardness (the first printing press in the Muslim world was set up in 1824, nearly four hundred years after Gutenberg) and a petrified religion, petrifying human thought.

To their defence, one could suggest that, if it weren't for Islam, yes, there may have been steps towards enlightenment principles, of equality, equal representation, the (relatively) impartial rule of law, promotion of women's rights, etc.

The Muslim world has thus lived a ghastly tragedy for nearly fourteen hundred years, and the ghastly value system that it excretes even today, Shari'a law, must at all costs never be allowed to ever be recognised in Australia.

Cheers,

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Thursday, 9 March 2017 11:10:16 AM
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Anybody who has positive valid reason to want to live here in the best country in the world, and that just has to be most people; and have something/anything worthwhile to contribute or add?

And if they're able to peacefully cohabitate, without trying to change us to where they came from, they should be just as welcome as the sons and daughters of the Muslim Afghan camels drivers who came here to help lay the overland telegraph.

And their also Muslim descendants unrecognisable from any other ocker Aussie.

And could just as easily be the bloke you shared a beer with after the footy, or the lady manning the tuckshop at the local school, or handing out the snags at the communal charity raising event.

And just as concerned as any fair dinkum Aussie about where we are headed and the plight of the persecuted, in her or his homeland or anywhere.

Accentuating our six degrees of difference solves nothing, while striving for understanding and commonality will. And not doable by closing your mind, eyes and ears! Or claiming to know the mind of God, and by implication, unable to err!

Historical records report that Islam wasn't successfully spread by warriors branding swords, through most of Asia, but by peace loving Sofies and by example.

Even so, there is no one true God, just the one God, Creator or creative force, given various names Allah, Jehovah, Yahweh, Omm and then only because many different people have different languages.

And if any truly believe in God, and claim to understand his/her purpose, it can't be reflected in satanic barbarous war or allowing mindless satanic greed to destroy our common homeworld!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Thursday, 9 March 2017 12:16:55 PM
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Dan, our problem is the same as Europes, it is just not as severe.
There is a policy applied by UK moslems in Birmingham called Trojan Horse.
What we see in Punchbowl is very similar although they were too late
acting on it in the UK and it had spread to a number of schools.
What we saw yesterday at the school is the same as happened in the UK.
Just in case it was not covered where you live, the new headmaster
was bailed up by two men and threatened that they would "get him !".
He made a big mistake, he said he would not report it to the police.

No doubt some would be moving away from the mosque, I nearly wrote church !
They are told that apostates are the worst of people and to avoid them.
The result is they can be cut off from the rest of their friends and indeed relatives.
Of course that depends on the attitude of their friends.

Islams blames the west for the condition of the Middle East but the
crusades and more recent intrusions into the area were because of the
way they have been treating other peoples and countries.

I am afraid that until they stop the practise of marrying cousins it
will not get any better. What is remarkable is that horse & camel
breeders thought that Allah made a special exception for humans
or was it just moslems ?
It is the cruelist thing they can do to their children.
Posted by Bazz, Thursday, 9 March 2017 2:25:41 PM
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Bazz..
Really, does anybody give a toss what Muslims do behind closed doors?
After all, isn't the West Equally psychotic in their obsession with homosexuals marrying each other. Ask a Muslim what he thinks of that madness Bazz!
Be ready for an expletive laden answer!

Muslims live in a tightly closed world. That's not bad Bazz, that is actually good!
Do you care a Muslim student will not shake hands with a female teacher in a passing out parade?
Damn sure I don't.
But I'll warn you, get ready for more Muslims not less, Indonesia stands ready to flood the place with Turnbull's assistance!
Posted by diver dan, Thursday, 9 March 2017 4:37:55 PM
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Hi Dan,

But that might be precisely the reason that the Australian government, and Australians generally, have to resist any move towards the introduction of Shari'a law - for ANY Australians including Muslim Australians - now, and forever.

The point about not shaking hands with a woman is supposed to be because they are unclean, 'haram', to any strange male. Of course, the point about Australians shaking hands is that it's an expression of equality. Long may it continue to be so.

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Thursday, 9 March 2017 4:46:57 PM
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Joe

Both the Christian and Muslim religions and the countries they have ruled for over a thousand years are on a par with each other in terms of general horribleness. So I'm not going to get into a tit-for-tat history discourse.

The only real reason the Christian countries shot ahead in terms of scientific and cultural advancement was because of the tremendous wealth they obtained during the Age of Expansion, in which they enslaved and/or exterminated most of the rest of the world. Despite all this enlightened wealth and advancement, two-thirds of the population of Western Europe lived in abject squalor.

The type of Enlightenment I am referring to is not what the West experienced in the 18th century. I'm talking more about the last 100 years or so, especially since the end of the Ottoman empire. Western foreign policy - in particular, Britain and France, and since WWII, the US - have systematically prevented Islamic majority countries from progressing in their own way and at their own pace.

Those that did start to progress along secular lines - Iran, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq and others - have been constantly interfered with, their governments overthrown to make way for Western-friendly dictators and the most fundamentalist, Sharia-thumping crazies among them actually funded and trained by the West as fighting militias.

At the same time, it props up countries like Saudi Arabia, one of the most fundamentally evil Islamic regimes in existence. In terms of Western foreign policy, Islam is only 'evil' when it doesn't kow-tow to Western interests.
Posted by Killarney, Thursday, 9 March 2017 6:53:44 PM
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//Wow, really? Defending mikk?//

Nah, having a go at runner. Because that's what he's there for. Mikk can fend for his or herself.

Now why don't you run along and suck runner's cock some more, you sycophantic little faggot?

//Of course, the point about Australians shaking hands is that it's an expression of equality. Long may it continue to be so.//

Well I think it's safe to conclude that you're not a Freemason ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1bHBthJN9w

Masons shake hands to prove they're Masons, and not just any old Joe. Come to think of it, we did the same thing in Scouts.
Posted by Toni Lavis, Thursday, 9 March 2017 8:08:45 PM
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Joe

There is a couple here on your case. If Muslims wish to stone adulteresses to death in Australia for example, who cares, I don't. If they wish to marry a twelve year old cousin, who cares. I don't care.
Whatever they wish to do that is acceptable to themselves, do it. BUT the war is on if some idiot in government wishes to extend those privileges to the wider community who are not Muslim...I do care!

Likewise, as a Christian, I don't want, for example, a homosexual wishing to marry his lover in my church, to have the right to persecute me over my right to exercise my conscience to say NO. And I don't want the government to interfere with my right to say no, by persecuting me with stupid laws which strip me of MY rights.
This is how Muslims think Joe. It's a parallel universe to the Christian universe.
And Joe, I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, that Aboriginals can already exercise their own cultural pay back rights, under certain circumstances, of spearing wrong doers in their tribe, as punishment. Tribal punishment!

And I whole heartedly agree with Killarney. We all of us know who kicked the Muslim ant nest.
One cannot deny the duplicitous nature of the Wests foreign policy. It was glorious to see the sycophantic little grub that dragged Australia along the same path at the command of George Bush, John Howard, ambushed by enemies of his own making in the street today.
And to be so fearful of reprisal as to have his own police guard, even this far out in time from his evil!
Posted by diver dan, Thursday, 9 March 2017 9:28:43 PM
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Dan, you missed my point about the cousin marriage.
It has resulted in a damaged genome and a resultant lower average IQ.
It also has resulted in a widespread behaviour problem.
They have a 13% to 20% increase in children with learning difficulties.
If you doubt this go and read the report by the NSW Health Dept in the
NSW parliament Hansard and also the report to the House of Commons by
the Midlands National Health Service.
There are also similar reports in Denmark.
Posted by Bazz, Thursday, 9 March 2017 10:30:40 PM
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diver dan

'If Muslims wish to stone adulteresses to death in Australia for example, who cares, I don't. If they wish to marry a twelve year old cousin, who cares. I don't care.'

Assuming I'm reading you right, that's taking tolerance way too far, diver! Not in MY country, thank you very much!
Posted by Killarney, Friday, 10 March 2017 12:00:34 AM
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Hi Killarney,

With respect, the Muslim world had a thousand years of relatively undisturbed opportunity to get its act together if it was ever to move, glacially slowly, toward anything resembling the Enlightenment in the West - all those imperfect things like equality, the impartiality of the law, democracy, and particularly women's rights, etc. - and they blew it. Locked into a backward religion, which forbad any change or genuine analysis, what else could - and can - they expect ?

But I agree that Western capitalism has, for its own grubby purposes, propped up the most reactionary of regimes - which often tend to be the 'most Muslim'. Trump is continuing that opportunist tradition.

And yes, what's Dan on ? I suspected that, sooner or later, some dumb-dumb on the 'Left' would start pushing the line that 'Shari'a is okay for Muslims, leave them to it', i.e. that women who happen to be Muslim should be stripped of their rights as Australians, as Australian women, on spurious, gutless and quite reactionary grounds which would sit well with the feudalistic Ottoman notion of 'milayet, millet'. I'm sure you would oppose that sort of drivel ?

Regards,

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Friday, 10 March 2017 8:35:45 AM
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I agree with you Joe, and how long after that before the immans start
insisting that all of us start obeying Sharia laws.
That push has already started in UK, and in parts of Paris it is compulsory.
Posted by Bazz, Friday, 10 March 2017 1:24:35 PM
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It is interesting to read today that there are 19 schools in south and south western Sydney that have been identified as radicalising children. Parents are complaining about this, suggesting that Punchbowl Boys High is being run like a mosque. Isnt it about time time our politicians were held accountable for this garbage being taught in our schools. Muslims rely on six factors to promote
islam. They are victimology, political correctness, multiculturalism, dhimmitude, islamophobia and taqiyya.
Everyone should read about these topics and make up their own mind about islam. All over the world, there is a very serious problem with islam and with Canada passing anti islamophobic legislation and various schools in the UK and America openly teaching islam, we need to wake up to what is happening around us.
Posted by jason bourne, Friday, 10 March 2017 1:34:52 PM
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Hi Bazz,

No, not yet anyway. With the help of the brainless and gutless 'Left', the imams will push the more innocuous-sounding proposition that Muslims should have their own system of law, i.e. Shari'a - how can that possibly bother other Australians ? But just for Muslims. For now.

There may be even some feminists, if such still exist, who will object and say that Muslim women in Australia, i.e. Australians who happen to be women who happen to be Muslim, should have the rights and protections of all other Australians. But I wouldn't bet on it.

I was on the bus today, 33 degrees in Adelaide, and a young Muslim got on, with (it seemed) long trousers, and an overcoat and thick head-scarf. I was wearing only a tee-shirt (and, from memory, trousers) but I was sweating. Many 'feminists' would probably say, "Oh well, that's their Culture." But being a chauvinist and cultural-racist, I thought, "Well, if I can dress lightly, why can't she ?"

What an utter bastard I am. I'll never learn, I'm supposed to worship Culture, and other people's male-centred religion, but I just can't seem to get the hang of it.

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Friday, 10 March 2017 3:04:31 PM
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' Nah, having a go at runner. Because that's what he's there for. Mikk can fend for his or herself.

Now why don't you run along and suck runner's cock some more, you sycophantic little faggot?'

Just showing us how putried ones heart can be Toni. How charming! No wonder you support the perversion of kids minds through ' safe' schools.
Posted by runner, Friday, 10 March 2017 3:38:42 PM
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mikk,

Why did you write 'xtians'?
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 10 March 2017 10:22:17 PM
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Joe

Feminists, like the rest of the population, are divided on this issue and many admit to having mixed feelings. (This is true of many leftists as well.)

If you’re interested, here are two feminist links you might like to check out, which are very critical of Islam and the use of Islamphobia-shaming to silence discussion. The first is written by radical feminist, Julie Bindel, and the second features an interview with a UK-Iranian feminist ex-Muslim.

http://www.standpointmag.co.uk/node/6392/full

http://www.feministcurrent.com/2016/02/16/podcast-maryam-namazie/

‘Locked into a backward religion, which forbad any change or genuine analysis, what else could - and can – [Muslims] expect ?’

In many ways, this is true. But they were only about 100 years behind the Christian West in their readiness to rid themselves of their ancient religious straightjackets – which is a drop in the bucket of human history. Much of that effort by visionary leaders like Ghaddafi*, Mossedeh and Nassar was violently overturned and overthrown by a strange pact between fundamentalist Islam and the capitalist West.

It may seem like I’m defending Islam and demonising the West. I don’t mean to. Just trying to look at the bigger picture. There is much that I despise about Islam. (I too have difficulty controlling my anger when I see niqab-dressed women in public. Some hijab dress is fairly innocuous – even stylish at times - but as you say, some women take it to extremes.) As a culture and a religion, they have a long way to go.

* The real Ghaddafi, not the genocidal cartoon character propagandised by the West.
Posted by Killarney, Friday, 10 March 2017 10:49:58 PM
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Toni (and mikk)

I know runner has some provocative views, but your response rhetoric is revolting. Get a grip!
Posted by Killarney, Saturday, 11 March 2017 3:00:36 AM
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mikk,

Why did you write 'xtians'?

If its good enough for xmas.
Probably should have been xians to be more accurate.
Posted by mikk, Saturday, 11 March 2017 3:31:13 AM
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Wouldn't it be funny if Hitler had been smart enough to proclaim Nazism as a religion? And it was being predicted that by 2050, Nazism would be the world's largest religion? Would Killarny, Foxy, and Diver Dan now be complaining about "Naziphobia" and going into bat for the poor oppressed Nazis.?

Imagine if Australia had been stupid enough to import 600,000 Nazis? And those Nazis were very seriously over represented in serious criminal behaviour and welfare dependency? Would Killarny, Foxy or Diver Dan be alarmed? How about if 650 Nazis born in Australia were either trying to join the German SS or were already fighting for it? Would that worry them? How about Nazis screaming "Heil Hitler!" as they gunned down ordinary Australians? Would our three little apologists think up excuses to protect Nazi Australians? Would they condemn Nazism and Nazis outright if some Untersturmfuehrer stood up in a Nazi church and said, in effect, that if Nazis rape non Nazi females, it is all the "cat meat" non Nazi females fault?

The main difference between Islam and Nazism is that Islam is worse than Nazism. Though both belief systems share commonalities, lethal hatred for Jews and homosexuals being the most common, both oppose free speech and male and female equality (with Islam's version much worse). But at least the Nazis believe in civil law and would oppose female genital mutilation and child brides.

I am sure that our fearless threesome would support the idea that Muslim females should be allowed to walk around in barques. But I wonder what they would be saying that if 600,000 Nazis in Australia were walking around with brown shirts and swastika armbands?

What I find amazing is this curious disconnect from reality which people like our fearless threesome express. We have imported a religion into this country who's holy scriptures call for our death, mutilation or forced conversion. And Foxy, Diver Dan, and Killarny see nothing wrong with that. They seem to exist in another dimension where protecting the devotees of a religion devoted to destroying your their own civilisation is a virtue.
Posted by LEGO, Saturday, 11 March 2017 8:06:23 AM
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Here here Lego !
Posted by Bazz, Saturday, 11 March 2017 9:59:06 AM
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Hi Killarney,

Thanks for those links. Yes, it's very complicated and pat answers are no use, just the sign of a lazy mind.

All the best,

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Saturday, 11 March 2017 10:11:09 AM
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So "Dan", by dint of noise, obtains a peace,
And with his natural untender knack,
By new distress, bids former grievance cease....(guess)!

I have paid my penance, the 24 hours of silence borne...OLO

Lego...your lethal grenade of hate and intolerance, has landed accurately into the enemy trenches...there's blood Lego, there's blood!
Alas, where else is a purist homophobe such as myself, to run, If not to the trenches of "your" enemy; into the arms of the perfect combination of evil, prejudice and hate!
Come on over, you'll be welcome!
Posted by diver dan, Saturday, 11 March 2017 12:54:25 PM
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LEGO

Did you actually READ my comments? If you had, you might have noticed that my viewpoint is not the one-dimensional caricature that you have lumped me with.
Posted by Killarney, Saturday, 11 March 2017 11:52:03 PM
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I have read all of your comments on this topic, Killarney. And your main premise appears to be, that Muslims have a perfect right to barge into western countries in their millions, because everything that is going wrong in the Muslim world is all the fault of the West, and the US in particular.

I reject that parallel universe worldview entirely.

I read your shallow arguments supporting that premise, and I find your logic to be mind boggling. You even defended that slime ball Ghadhafi who gave arms to the IRA, had his agents bomb US military facilities Germany which killed US servicemen, had his agent bomb a US airliner which killed two US/Greek women, had his agents shoot dead a female British police officer from the grounds of the Libyan embassy in London, and who was instrumental in the Lockerbie airline bombing, which killed 270 innocent people.

And you love the guy? Go figure.

Your analysis of the Afghan war is somewhere south of fairy land. The USSR invaded Afghanistan and Soviet paratroopers stormed the presidential palace and shot dead the country's President, a President who would not do what Moscow ordered. What resulted was a Afghan rebellion which they were losing until the West stepped in to help the Afghans repel the invasion. Helping a poverty stricken people repulse a straight out military invasion from a totalitarian regime who wanted to absorb Afghanistan into the Soviet empire, I would have thought would have won the West some respect and gratitude.

Leaving aside the fact that some Mujahidin like Shah Massoud were very pro western (which was why the Taliban assassinated him), there are strange people in this world called "Muslims", to which the concept of gratitude has little meaning. And strange people called "lefties" who can always find a way to depict any noble western gesture as always having sinister overtones.
Posted by LEGO, Sunday, 12 March 2017 9:54:21 AM
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Is Islam our greatest danger?

Probably not, I could handle wearing funny clothes, having dirty feet, & praying in some strange direction a couple of times a day.

Infact Islam may be our saviour.

The greatest dangers the western world face are the militant lefty woman's lib movement, ratbag greenery, & political correctness. Each, or worse all of these are likely to do a great deal more damage to the well being & living standards of the average citizen of the west, than any takeover by Islam.

In fact one could perhaps see the recent growth of Islam as a development designed to save us from our growing stupidity.
Posted by Hasbeen, Sunday, 12 March 2017 11:15:22 AM
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Good boy Hasbeen, your onto it. Exactly right!
Posted by diver dan, Sunday, 12 March 2017 7:58:27 PM
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There is not enough thought and debate about who is the "real" enemy of Australia...guaranteed it is NOT Muslims or their radical terrorists!
Posted by diver dan, Sunday, 12 March 2017 8:03:14 PM
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LEGO

I’m sorry but I don’t go for treating politically complex issues like a football grand final – barrack for one team, wear the team colours, sit in the designated stands and sing the designated songs. Only one team wins, and then it’s all over for another year. Politics is not that simple.

‘And your main premise appears to be, that Muslims have a perfect right to barge into western countries in their millions, because everything that is going wrong in the Muslim world is all the fault of the West, and the US in particular.’

If you had properly read my comments, you’d know that is not what I am saying. I DON’T want Muslims barging into Western countries. I want Muslims to stay in their own countries – not because I dislike Muslims or Islam (even though I don’t like Islam as a religion or culture), but because people belong in the countries of their birth, culture, heritage and traditions. Conversely, the populations of Western countries should not be continually forced to accept waves of migration by exotic foreigners whose cultures and belief systems are hopelessly at odds with the destination culture. The departure culture also suffers a brain-drain and the untold suffering of families separated by emigration.

Although I am left-leaning in my overall politics, I reject all this sanctimonious ‘You are welcome here’ stuff.

On other issues raised, I too shared your views about Ghaddafi. However, during the 2011 overthrow of his regime, I started reading more about the man. The more I read, the more I came to see that his rule over Libya (shared with five other visionary collaborators, who have since all been assassinated or tortured to death by the Nato-backed Islamist takeover) took the country from the fourth poorest on Earth to the richest, socially equal and most progressive country in Africa and on a par with most Western countries. Some of the terrorist claims you make are valid, but others, such as Lockerbie, are trumped-up charges based on planted evidence and bribed witnesses (all of whom have recanted).
Posted by Killarney, Monday, 13 March 2017 2:33:46 AM
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To Killarney.

The Libya which Ghaddafi became the dictator of, was a country with massive oil reserves and a tiny population. Ghaddafi made himself popular by giving his people free everything, and doing what Arabs love in a leader, displaying his implacable hatred for the people of the West. You are one of those people.

Libya was part of the Barbary Coast, which for centuries preyed on European ships plying the Mediterranean. It contributed around two million European slaves to the slave markets of Algiers. It was even responsible for the creation of the US Navy. President Jefferson wondered why the US government was paying 10% of it's budget as Dane geld to Libyan pirates, a figure which kept rising every year. Especially since the Libyan pirates kept attacking US merchantmen and enslaving the crews and passengers anyway. He said that the US could use the money to build their own navy and marine corps, and sort the bastards out. It makes you wonder why colonialism had such a bad name.

Jefferson was the President who guaranteed Freedom of Religion in the USA, a concept which was entirely novel throughout the world. When he read the Koran he was absolutely horrified by this "religion", but he did not bother to violate his own belief in freedom of religion and ban it. That was probably because there were no Muslims in the US, and he probably thought that no US politician in the future would ever be stupid enough to import Muslims into the US anyway.

I had to laugh at your premise that the wimpy Euros are a bunch of evil bastards who are somehow responsible for the mess in Libya. The USA usually gets the blame for everything, but the Euros? The Euros stood by and did nothing during the Libyan civil war. It was only when Ghaddafi was winning and he said that he was going to massacre his enemies when he won, that they finally took sides. They probably had to have 100 "conferences" before they made that decision anyway.
Posted by LEGO, Monday, 13 March 2017 3:46:20 AM
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LEGO

What on earth have Barbary Coast pirates got to do with anything? Where’s the Phantom when you need him?

And what has Thomas Jefferson got to do with anything? Who cares if he didn’t like the Koran! I don’t like the Koran either!

And, besides, Jefferson kept hundreds of slaves and fathered a few dozen of his own. I don’t see why a long-dead slave-raping dude’s views on Islam should be presented as a definitive opinion on anything.

Also, Ghaddafi did not make any massacre or genocide threats – that was a Western media distortion of his ‘rivers of blood’ speech, which was actually a desperate plea to his enemies to STOP massacring people.

Finally, it would be a great help, LEGO, if you stopped viewing every criticism of the West as blind hatred.
Posted by Killarney, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 3:00:56 AM
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Rumi's answer to questions asked by a disciple -

What is Poison?
He replied with a beautiful answer - Anything which is more than our necessity is Poison. It may be Power, Wealth, Hunger, Ego, Greed, Laziness, Love, Ambition, Hate or anything

What is fear.....?
Non acceptance of uncertainty.
If we accept that uncertainty, it becomes adventure...!

What is envy ?
Non acceptance of good in others
If we accept that good, it becomes inspiration...!

What is Anger?
Non acceptance of things which are beyond our control.
If we accept, it becomes tolerance...!

What is hatred?
Non acceptance of person as he is.
If we accept person unconditionally, it becomes love...!
Posted by grateful, Sunday, 2 April 2017 10:30:47 PM
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