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The Forum > Article Comments > Mating, the core of it all > Comments

Mating, the core of it all : Comments

By Don Aitkin, published 10/2/2017

But in all of them, to repeat, the real and sometimes hidden engine of social life is the production of children and their maturation into adults.

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If you say so Don and if that's your narrow focus and priorities.

My earliest memories go back to around eight months, around the time I also learned to walk.

As for your day after day recollection of day after day 33C?

I'd suggest you drive to parramatta and spend a weekend strolling around their pavements, if only to understand how ordinary, less privileged folk live in the real world, and completely foreign to ivory tower dwelling academics surviving on coal company grants/consultation fees?

Suggest you dump the suit and tie in favour of shorts and loose fitting cotton shirt. Remember to stay hydrated!

And as you turn your gaze skyward, try and finally to understand a sun in a waning phase may well produce an ice age of indeterminate length, but not heat waves and record breaking heat records on record breaking heat records. And given Sunday is heading for hitherto uncharted territory, A good day for a (fair dinkum) scientist to be out there with his measuring instruments!

As opposed to sitting in some plush air conditioned ivory tower, trying to convince the great unwashed, this record breaking, almost endless heatwave pling on record breaking heatwaves, is just a figment of your collective and overwrought imaginations?

Or failing that, find something of little or no consequence whatsoever to prattle on about, to divert attention from what we should be attending.

I hope you're not too old or too overweight to take up the challenge, as elderly folk in their "dotage" frequently succumb to strokes or heart attacks due to heat exhaustion.

And a park bench in the shade during the pm, for a couple of reality check hours, ought to be a big enough reality check challenge! Because you more than most seem to need one?
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Friday, 10 February 2017 12:35:20 PM
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“Most of us find a significant other, and mate: we are hard-wired to do so.”

There are many people whose wiring has gone astray then because they do not feel the necessity to find a significant other or mate. If this is the basic hypothesis of your second part then you should go back to the drawing board.

A society based on the structure of a family is a very restrictive society. The basic building block of any society is the individual. You cannot have a family without individuals but you do not need families to have societies. Nowadays you can have individuals who are born outside of a family and can be raised outside of a family. So long as you have donor women prepared to give birth then your society can continue on. Structuring your society around families and giving families benefits over individuals is a bad way to structure society. It creates social ‘classes’ where those who adopt the family paradigm are valued more so than those who do not. This is fundamentally unjust and injustice will lead to dysfunctional societies.

These kinds of articles which have a hidden agenda to promote ‘family values’ are anti-justice and justice is a fundamental value to all human beings. In terms of numbers families may dominate the society at present but they should not dominate in terms of human rights. Every human being has a right to justice however they came into the world or however they were nurtured.
Posted by phanto, Friday, 10 February 2017 2:02:04 PM
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Very nice. I look for to reading Don's next essay.
Posted by ttbn, Friday, 10 February 2017 2:07:25 PM
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The definition of pregnancy, Something seriously that was only poked in fun. Why can't we get more ladies to realise this?

I think perhaps, that in much of the pair couplings it is only half of the pair interested in procreation.
Posted by Hasbeen, Friday, 10 February 2017 2:22:28 PM
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Mating is NOT the core of all - The core of all is God.

Any feature that supports our return to God, to that extant is good, be it the human body/mind that we wear, its family, its society, its justice, etc.

Mating is a weakness that human bodies inherit from their animal ancestors. Identifying with this biological feature can badly distract us and consume our energies so we have no time left for seeking God.

On occasion, however, mating can build a family which creates little human bodies for advanced souls to wear and complete their spiritual journey therein. A supportive religious family can then direct the minds of their young towards God. Unfortunately, this cannot be said for all families in general, some of which instead direct their children away from God and towards all manners of distracting indulgences.

Equality, justice and fairness are our birthright, part and parcel of our true divine original nature, but are unnatural and never possible for our flesh-and-blood human bodies and the desire-contaminated brains that come with them, including the above-mentioned mating instincts.

I will be looking forward, Don, to read in your next article how you propose to build such societies that will lead us closer to the ideal = God.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Friday, 10 February 2017 5:36:49 PM
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Yes Yuyustu: We should ask your God to completely remove the mating instinct, sometimes stronger than the survival instinct; and part of our compelling instinct driven behavior right up to the day before we die, and replace it with a stop mating neute button that limits replacement procreation with just two successful matings per couple; and ensures that the youngsters stand alone as soon as they're old enough to fend for themselves? Like all other rutting animals?

And in one fowl swoop we could destroy the counter productive concept of family and the flawed societal values that this highly flawed custom generates. And with that change, reintroduce the survival of the fittest, most able, so we eliminate the weak from your new master race? As well as massively reduce our total numbers? Is that what you're saying?

Me, having lived the last 31 years on my own, with thirty of them celibate, the last twenty as the only occupant of this abode, surrounded by memories of happier times, warm embraces and communication.

Sadly, I can't say singularity and soul destroying loneliness has anything watsoever going for it.

That's why I'm resetting my, final days, goals. I'd much rather end my days in the loving arms of a truly compatible mate, who is also served by the (destined) contentment/ecstasy, arrangement; and surrounded by an adopted foster family.

Than aspire to your "highly autocratic", absolutist, absolutely asinine, perfect world scenario. Like say, the way we manage cattle numbers, with those not suitable breeders culled from the herd? Yes?
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Friday, 10 February 2017 8:10:01 PM
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Hi Alan,

Yes, remember that the perfect is the bitter enemy of the good, and all Utopias lead to fascism. Give me an imperfect world any day, with real humans with real (but charming and mendable) faults and a partner that you can have tiffs with. And make up after :)

Cheers,

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Friday, 10 February 2017 10:01:30 PM
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Phanto....the human island all to himself, floating in a sea of similar islands. It's already arrived!

Hasbeen...very good...:-))

Alan....Don't panic into silly decisions! As divers learn (taught), here is the rule to avoid disasters from panic situations:
Stop...breath..THINK....act. Notice action comes last!
Posted by diver dan, Saturday, 11 February 2017 8:05:10 AM
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Poor Diver Dan who has to be in someone else's bosom to feel secure.
Posted by phanto, Saturday, 11 February 2017 8:18:39 AM
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Alan B.

Pay homage to Don*

Don is great.

Appreciate.

* http://youtu.be/76RrdwElnTU
Posted by plantagenet, Saturday, 11 February 2017 10:16:11 AM
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Yes Pete, I'll assume the Mecca position and repeat your, Don is good salutation. Always providing that doesn't force me to fart and or worse, they're the ones with the (oops,oops, bugger ) lumps in them.

In the meantime I'd prefer if he (Don is good) stopped his (typical ivory tower dweller) escapist reading, for long enough to log on to a NASA website to acquaint himself with a few useful facts.

One of which and according to their satellite instrumentation, the sun is in a waning phase, which normally as a cyclical event, would be accompanied by a cooler period. Like a mini ice age. Rather than record breaking heat waves/ambient temperatures.

Moreover it is currently in the bottom of an 11 year cycle and its lowest cyclical activity. Which should see Don reaching for a sleeveless pullover not the air conditioner remote!

33C! there are lots of folk in the western suburbs and further west, who kill for temperatures that low? Or Don's pay packet/consultation fees?

Ignoring evidence or data in not the scientific method. Whereas the confirmation bias and (coal funded) disingenuous mendacity may well be? Simply put, a waning sun and reduced solar activity cannot coexist with record breaking temperatures.

So if the sun isn't causing it and according to the collected scientific data, it isn't! What then is? A fiery Yoh Hansen rubbing (stop that you'll go blind) two boy scouts together?
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Saturday, 11 February 2017 12:41:08 PM
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I suspect that many adults do not have any feel for what makes their lives meaningful.

Perhaps that lack doesn't matter to them. While we can all at various times be guilty of being casual about life, in my view always being washed by the tide is more associated with mental laziness and some stupidity.

Where meaning in life is concerned, of course the people I love and care for, friends too, feature prominently.

While I didn't have to have a wife and children in my life, my meaningful life would be vastly diminished without them. That is not to say that one must marry or formally partner, although that makes practical sense, especially where children and obligations are concerned.

It is unreasonable for most of us to expect that pairings will always maintain themselves automatically. However even with the best will in the world, we can drift apart.

There does need to be a debate about what marriage is in modern times, the obligations and where it is headed.

Mating seems to be important even to those who proudly vow otherwise, such as celebrity politicians Julia Gillard and Julie Bishop. They do expect other people's children (imported is cheaper and ever so hip, they seem to believe) to care for them, now and in their old age.
Posted by leoj, Saturday, 11 February 2017 1:10:00 PM
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Causing what Alan.

There has been no warming for 17 years, except for that way below the error bars, generated in the NASA computers, by "scientists" terrified their gravy train will have it's wheels used for fence posts down Mexico way.

Tho noisy academics are worried they might have to do some real research. That would be hard for many of them, it's such a long time since they did any.

All of Europe, Asia, Russia & North America is trying to borrow shovels to dig themselves out of the snow & ice, it is only little old Oz that's a bit hot, thanks to our Tasman blocking high.

Meanwhile CO2 is almost up above starvation level for flora, the deserts are greening, & despite ratbag greenie predictions, the dams are full.

If we can just stop wasting money on damn fool windmills, we could fix the budget, & life will be great.

Wonder if Don Quixote would be interested in a contract to get rid of South Australia's useless expensive windmills.
Posted by Hasbeen, Saturday, 11 February 2017 1:22:59 PM
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Do I Phanto...you do jump to silly conclusions....but thanks for your misdirected sympathy, (I'll take that anyway).

But I am intreagued to know why you appear to have abandoned the concept of family. And what Condition exactly, should supersede the family unit as priority?
Posted by diver dan, Saturday, 11 February 2017 1:44:02 PM
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diver dan:

If they were silly conclusions you would not feel the need to defend yourself.

I never said I abandoned the concept of family. I said we are not hard wired to find a mate and create a family. I don't have an issue with families just people who think they are the only way to live and who think that those who do not live that way are not to be treated equally.

Why do you think family units should be given priority? Many people have grown up in institutions and have gone on to be exemplary citizens so it is not necessary to be a part of a family.
Posted by phanto, Saturday, 11 February 2017 3:29:58 PM
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Well Hasbeen old mate, I completely concur with your attitude and opinion of windmills; and probably useless in real competitive terms, with peak load power. Which can include clean coal.

I was reading an article in a scientific journal several years ago, as memory serves, where a Boston firm where trialling biosequestration with algae.

Apparently the best method includes large clear plastic pipes where nutrient loaded water and algae circulate. With enough nutrition injected to keep the (seed base) algae alive? With seawater able to grow oil rich algae, to replace fully imported fuel for whoever.

Company spokesperson coming on air and claiming, even with fuel excise added, large scale production could supply a superior, better lubricating ready to use, essentially unrefined product for 44 cents a litre. Or around #6.60 or thereabouts per barrel? Biodiesel or jet fuel!

Some algae are up to 60% oil and with the sundried product crushed for its oil content, the remaining biomass suitable for a food and arable land free, ethanol industry.

With the remanent sludge able to support biological digesters and a biogas/methanol industry; and for far less water use (2-3%) than any comparable irrigation project, where effluent would be automatically preferred, as essentially borrowed, cleaned and returned to the nearest convenient waterway, as reuseable water.

This would likely put clean coal up as eminently doable and able to compete with anyone or anything and get all its profits from the Co2 extraction facilities.

All that prevents it is the vested interests of (debt laden) foreigners and their lick spittle political servants?

If all our Co2 emission were treated in this manner, we'd not only create a competitive clean coal scenario other nations could follow, but become essentially self sufficient in all a liquid or gas fuel supplies indefinitely!

But particularly if all our biowaste could be added to the last industrial digester supported process! And that's where foreign based vested interest kicks in, with a little help from its moribund, self serving friends and effectively prevents or stymies all or any of it?
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Saturday, 11 February 2017 4:17:29 PM
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Phanto...

The priority list!
Families have an obvious priority in society, above all else. They are the nurturers of the next generation in any given society.
Let's look at many of the animal kingdom, where the family is often given no priority.
Cats for example. A Tom cat will kill and eat the kittens of a female cat if it can!
And without enlarging on that theme, for the sake of brevity, don't you think the vulnerability of baby humans deserves a better than average generous chance at survival than any other member of society?

And the only care I have Phanto is understanding your strange abandoning of the family in society, to be relaced with your version of justice.
I certainly do not believe that randomised couplings of individuals, attached only vaguely by degrees of friendship, should be given any help at all from society. At least no more than say a Church group, or a surfing group et al. You name it!
Posted by diver dan, Saturday, 11 February 2017 7:53:50 PM
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diver dan:

‘Baby humans’ are the responsibility of their parents or the state when there are no parents. They should be given what they need to survive by their parents. People who are parents should not be given any advantages over people who choose to not be parents. This is justice.

Giving advantages to one group of people because of their personal choice to be parents is unjust. One choice is not better than the other. Parents do not contribute more to society than non-parents. Just having a child is no guarantee that society will be better off. Some parents give birth to adults who go on to be serial killers or terrorists and cause great harm to society. The mere production of offspring is neither good nor bad in itself.

Many adults do not choose to be parents and they can go on to do great things or bad things.

Since there are no guaranteed results as to whether adults who form families contribute more than those who do not form families then there is not good reason why all adults should not be treated equally. Any attempt to promote the choice to create families over the choice not to create them is dishonest and manipulative.
Posted by phanto, Sunday, 12 February 2017 8:20:59 AM
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It seems that the birth-rate in most Western countries is not quite keeping up with the death-rate, even though people are living much longer than fifty or a hundred years ago - in fact, the populations in those countries may be holding up mainly BECAUSE people are living longer. Of course, in some countries, the overall population is slowly declining, Japan and Russia, if for different reasons.

Australia's population growth is almost balanced by the immigration: without migrants, who are usually young and just starting their families, Australia's population would be much more stationary.

Reliable pensions systems probably induce lower birth-rates while and better health services improve the chances of survival of children. On balance, they tend to influence a lower birth-rate.

Pre-contact, Australia's Indigenous population was very much a high-input/high-'output' system: large numbers of babies born, but most not reaching adulthood. So, in the long term, population remained steady, if sub-optimal. But droughts may have slashed populations by half or more, with no births occurring and children under three or four dying (no breast-milk), as well as the older people, especially women. Numbers must have slowly risen after a drought, only to be cut back again with the next one. Around 1900, droughts in South Australia occurred in about ten years out of twelve. That must have devastated Aboriginal population out of contact with ration stations, which provided assured food regardless.

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Sunday, 12 February 2017 8:35:35 AM
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Phanto

Of course the subject is a Pandora's box.
Mr pragmatic Hasbeen above hit on it. Most blokes don't set out intentionally to do more than simply copulate, and the more often the better: Whereas with our little chickey babes, there is a deeper meaning to life. That's why there generally smarter than the average bear.

But I think there is a rising complaint in society as to the intrusions that State makes into personal lives. Conclusions seem to me to be settling into two camps, the Conservatives, and the Liberals.
The conservative party V's the Green Labor alliance. I think the division is divided on the lines of ideology; which are who takes responsibility for the outcome of the mating process, namely the children. There is an ideological war raging for control of their vulnerable malleable minds. There are votes in them there hills!
Posted by diver dan, Sunday, 12 February 2017 8:50:15 AM
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diver dan:

I think that is a very sexist attitude. Women enjoy sex as much as men whether it leads to offspring or not. The decision to have sex does not mean it is always a decision to procreate or not.

The fact that women might want to have a baby does not mean that it is indicative of a 'deeper meaning to life'. Women have babies for all kinds of superficial reasons.

The rest of your post seems irrelevant to the topic.
Posted by phanto, Sunday, 12 February 2017 9:08:12 AM
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Phanto

Irrelevant ...not at all...

Mating is about procreation...the final fruit are children. The war for control of the mind is between secularism and conservative Christianity .
The charge of this battle of minds and with it, the deconstruction of societal norms in its view of the family, is of course led in the most part by homosexuals, (wich you conveniently do not specifically mention), through the political wing of LGBT.
Currently this group is working its evil inside the Liberal Party. And have successfully implanted Malcim Turnbull as its minion.

So Phanto, your views which include on the most part, justice (as you call it), towards disparet minor groups such as homosexuals taking, what you would consider, a rightful role as parents, and inheriting as your right (apparently), equal status to conventenional heterosexual parents, stand in contrast to sense, (and sensibility )..

So you may wish, in this process of dominating public debate, to discredit traditional family roles, as you are doing less than subtly here in your words. But you don't fool me!
Posted by diver dan, Sunday, 12 February 2017 12:48:40 PM
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Dear Alan,

I am saddened to hear about your involuntary loneliness. Solitude is a great thing, but only when consciously selected as a way of life and a willing sacrifice. I pray that you find your truly compatible mate and spend your last days contented in their arms.

Why should we ask God to remove the mating instinct?

The mating instinct is human and natural. It may as well remain as it is - yet we ought to rise above our identification with the human organism and its instincts: we deserve to be free from them!

I have nothing whatsoever against the concept of family - only against dysfunctional families which, instead of uplifting their children and directing them towards God, betray them and push them downward towards materialism in the mad service of their parents' genes.

"Survival of the fittest"? "Master race"? No, I never mentioned nor meant anything of the sort.

"reduce our total numbers?" This would be wonderful, but alas, we can't do that, not in this terrible age where an ideal society is not an option. The sheer number of humans on this planet necessitates life to be regulated by secular governments, which limit our freedom to seek God. Your suggestion as if I would try to achieve this mission-impossible by "elimination of the weak" is so totally off the mark. The most we can do in this dark age of ours, is for individuals and families to rise above these times. Fortunately we are compensated in this age of darkness, in that even small and feeble efforts to go against the stream and rise above the times are rewarded with great spiritual advancement that would otherwise, in better ages, require much greater and longer efforts.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Sunday, 12 February 2017 12:57:27 PM
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Retirement homes for celibate nuns and their psychosis that seem to abound there, leads me to believe enforced abstinence is against the maker's intentions, particular when sterilization (vasectomy) is all we need to prevent unwanted consequences, [including the transfer of biological fluids,] of our God given biological urges.

Only the seriously misinformed with completely unrealistic expectations, would require us to buck the creator's design features and rise above them.

The only thing that rises from enforced abstinence is the tilt in the kilt and its frequency. And I expect that the undertaker is going to experience significant difficulty holding the coffin lid down long enough to nail/screw it shut. (We're going to need a bigger burial vessel Sam.)

Sorry, but it's you Yuyustu and your errant teaching/expectations/demands that need altering/rising above, not our God given biology!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Sunday, 12 February 2017 2:15:19 PM
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Diver dan:

What is the point of maintaining societal norms just for their own sake? If they do not make sense then why continue on with them? Traditional families might make sense but that does not mean non-traditional families do not make sense. There are many ways in which human beings can choose to live with other human beings. What is relevant is that they are human beings and as such they all have equal rights. Rights are distributed to people because they are people and not because of the way they structure their relationships.

Just because you do not like the way some people structure their relationships does not make them any less a person and all people should be treated equally. You seem to want to favour only those who structure their relationships according to your preferences. That is not a very just kind of society
Posted by phanto, Sunday, 12 February 2017 3:22:11 PM
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Dear Alan,

I make suggestions, not demands, suggestions which I believe are for your own good, but which you don't need to follow.

The vast majority of us are not ready for celibacy, so the way forward is to gently and gradually lean in this direction and try to limit your sexual expression. One should not attempt to run before they can walk: just limiting one's sexual expression to one sexual partner is in itself a great and admirable spiritual achievement.

While we should not waste our time trying to change biology, we can let our biological bodies be what they are and the way they are, but without identifying ourselves with them.

Anyone who identifies with a biological body, when that body has sex, orgasm and other sensual pleasures, they too feel elated - but when that body is in pain, they too suffer; when that body is disabled, they too feel disabled; when that body is deprived of touch and other stimulations, they too feel lonely; and once that body dies, they too experience death - but whoever overcomes this association/identification with a body, never suffers, is never disabled, is never lonely and never dies!
Posted by Yuyutsu, Sunday, 12 February 2017 3:48:43 PM
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LOL Mating, the core of it all: BY Don Aitkin, 10/2/2017

Yuyutsu writes: "One should not attempt to run before they can walk: just limiting one's sexual expression to one sexual partner is in itself a great and admirable spiritual achievement."

One excellent reason [not that I ever gave it deep consideration], for completely ignoring the "spiritual" when sexually engaged.

"Nature, Mr Allnutt, is what we are put on this Earth to rise above." So spake Miss Rose Sayer [Katharine Hepburn] in the film The African Queen. The story unfolds on several levels with a simplicity, elegance and skill rarely encountered today. It makes a nonsense of your remonstrations.

Asceticism, of the kind you idealise, is a benign form of sado-masochism and is not for everyone.

Preference for self-deprivation before pleasure is to be found more often today in the religious dilettante who endures his martyrdom in a lounge chair before a warming fire with the companionship of a newspaper and a glass of Glen Fiddich rather than the confines of a draughty cave with a piece of mouldy turnip to fend off starvation and an odiferous bug-ridden dhoti for warmth.

It is an ineluctable fact impervious to the assault of would-be ascetics who claim favoured access to the Holy Ear, that involuntary monogamy, practiced as Yuyutsu would have it on an industrial scale, is an offense against nature and has all the earmarks of "unnatural asceticism"....self-mortification without a shadow of a doubt!

Lastly, it is an equally ineluctable fact similarly impervious, that an embarrassment of evidence confirms Homo evolution from an ape-like ancestor. The species Homo sapiens sapiens [a pompous descriptive if there ever was one] is a integral feature of the Natural World, the bioshphere. Humankind has attained that exalted station in the biosphere of being the most intelligent, top predator and top parasite. This is attested to by humankind itself. Advocacy for a higher status is unabashedly hubristic and devoid of merit, for there can be no higher station. We are of Nature, we cannot be outside it. Nothing we do or think is unnatural.
Posted by Pogi, Friday, 17 February 2017 3:45:16 AM
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OLO Mating, the core of it all by Don Aitkin

Yuyutsu writes P1: "Mating is a weakness that human bodies inherit from their animal ancestors. Identifying with this biological feature can badly distract us and consume our energies so we have no time left for seeking God."

You'll be delighted to learn thant I have several intimate friends who combine the two endeavours with astonishing success. In a transport of sexual ecstasy they seek god with an impressive piety and fervour. So all is not lost with your fallen bretheren I assure you.

Yuyutsu: "Unfortunately, this cannot be said for all families in general, some of which instead direct their children away from God and towards all manners of distracting indulgences."

My son began swimming lessons at 18 months and ceased at 14 years to concentrate on high school studies. He chose to do well academically and spent much time studying. I took him to my favourite golf course and had my friend the pro give him golf lessons. Tried him out on guitar lessons but he's not developed an ear for good music yet. He's talented at art and one of his high school teachers has his computer art hanging on her wall [next to a Manet print]. He's now begun his first job as an electrical engineer with a very large firm starting on $80k p.a. He has a beautiful car and a motorbike. He'll travel the world in his work and on my advice will probably marry at about 35 years. I raised him as an atheist. I guess I've ruined his life, huh? Oh, and somewhere along the way he squeezed in gaining a black belt in karate as well. Cont...
Posted by Pogi, Friday, 17 February 2017 5:26:59 AM
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Cont..Yuyutsu P1: "Equality, justice and fairness are our birthright, part and parcel of our true divine original nature, but are unnatural and never possible for our flesh-and-blood human bodies....."

Contrary to your pessimism and melancholy opinion of humankind, we have institutionalised all three in our custom, our morality and our laws. And we've been highly successful at it. But good news does not make newspaper magnates happy because it doesn't sell newspapers so the world continues to live in harmony in the vast majority of places considering there are roughly 7bn of us. The good stuff, the happy stuff hardly ever gets reported. The records of it are so scattered or non-existent as to make listing and correlating nigh on impossible. The unfortunate pessimist is a victim of propaganda and his own preparedness to see what he is told to see. His discriminatory faculties have been atrophied by cynicism.

Yuyutsu, back to P5: "but whoever overcomes this association/identification with a body, never suffers, is never disabled, is never lonely and never dies!"

Fantastic news for the disabled! When can we expect all those severed limbs to begin growing again? How many of Yuyutsu's colleagues, maimed by accident or birth defect, have been witnessed by him to become whole and abled?

Congratulations, you're beginning to sound like a street-corner evangelising huckster by the minute.
Posted by Pogi, Friday, 17 February 2017 5:30:08 AM
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