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The Forum > Article Comments > Trump is right: climate spending is damaging to the economy and will achieve little > Comments

Trump is right: climate spending is damaging to the economy and will achieve little : Comments

By Nicola Wright, published 28/11/2016

Worldwide there are 350 gigawatts of coal projects currently under construction, and 932 gigawatts of pre-construction coal proposals in the pipeline.

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Hi Mhaze,
no COMMERCIAL thorium reactors, granted! But there used to be no commercial ipods, iphones, Tesla EV's, microwave ovens, electric light bulbs....

Anyway, your objection is a fantasy of its own. We don't HAVE to build those beautiful thorium reactors yet (even though we KNOW the physics back to front and inside out). We can build today's safe nuclear power plants, fast. If we had the political will. We could nationalise power, and just roll out today's AP1000's. That will solve the climate and coal-health crisis while we wait for the Chinese to complete their massive MSR commercialisation project. Then they'll sell our idea back to us, probably with extra fries with that if we buy four at a go.

Dr Hansen says the entire world just needs to build 115 GW reactors a year.
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/dec/03/nuclear-power-paves-the-only-viable-path-forward-on-climate-change

That includes powering the poor and unborn billions to completely clean up all power by 2050. 115GW a year. That's doable. How do we know? The French already BEAT this record on a reactor per GDP basis.

There's nothing mysterious about how to solve climate change, and the benefits have been recorded in history. The French already did it, and now export more reliable clean electricity than any other nation on earth!
Posted by Max Green, Saturday, 3 December 2016 10:32:32 AM
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Max should desist from posting when he is in a delusional state. His standard lies are bad enough, but his delusions about France’s nuclear power generation are too stupid to be funny.
“ Electricité de France has had to shut down 18 of its 58 nuclear reactors THESE are difficult times for Electricité de France (EDF), the country’s quasi-monopolistic electricity provider, serving 88% of homes. Outages at no fewer than 18 of the 58 EDF-owned nuclear reactors that provide three-quarters of France’s electricity have meant a slump in production: the company says annual nuclear output could fall to 378 terawatt hours (TWH), from 417 TWH last year. Eight reactors are currently lying idle and several may not restart for weeks or months. Power stations are burning coal at a rate not seen since the 1980s. As electricity imports and prices soar, officials are having to deny that a cold snap could bring blackouts.
https://nuclear-news.net/category/2-world/europe/france-europe-2-world-area/
Coal generated electricity is the cheapest and most reliable.
Posted by Leo Lane, Saturday, 3 December 2016 12:26:51 PM
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Leo's trolling again like a demented dogmatist struggling to deny reality in the face of new data. Just because some reactors are OLD, built in the 1970's and needing maintenance 40+ years later, does not undermine a whole technology. Especially when those old Gen2 reactors can be replaced with passive-safety AP1000 Gen3 reactors. Got some trite trolling snide little remark to make AP1000's disappear?

Let's remember:-

France IS the world's largest exporter of electricity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_electricity_exports

The French are at "80 grams of CO2 per kWh for two decades, the Germans are still putting out ~450 grams/kwh and Australia is close to world’s worst practice ~850 grams/kwh."
https://bravenewclimate.com/2013/02/18/two-decades-and-counting/

Dirty energy sources like wood, animal dung, and fossil fuels kill about 7 million people a year, and coal is about half of this. Compare this to the Chernobyl accident, which might eventually kill about 4000 people. Coal kills 2 Chernobyl's a day!
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2014/air-pollution/en/
This is why George Monbiot says: “….when coal goes right it kills more people than nuclear power does when it goes wrong. It kills more people every week than nuclear power has in its entire history. And that’s before we take climate change into account.”
http://www.monbiot.com/2012/10/09/the-heart-of-the-matter/

The health costs nearly double the cost of coal!
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2012/06/10/energys-deathprint-a-price-always-paid/

Dr James Hansen has calculated that by displacing coal, nuclear power has already saved 1.8 million lives.
http://goo.gl/nL4lMu

When these 'externalised' costs of coal are counted, nuclear power is already cheaper than coal.

Only dogmatists with an undeniable agenda deny new data. Der!
Posted by Max Green, Saturday, 3 December 2016 12:41:42 PM
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@ Leo Lane.

I have asked this question of MMCC deniers countless times, possibly nearing 100, and am yet to receive a single sensible reply.

Let us suppose you are right, and we stop all efforts to counter global warming, and let's say in 50 years time we find out, too late, that you were wrong.

We reach the tipping point, temperatures and sea levels start to rise exponentially, billions of lives are at risk.

What do you say to your grandkids? Oops?

On the other hand, what if we continue trying to slow GW down, and in 50 years time we discover YOU were right, how do the two scenarios compare?

I can tell my grandchildren I did what I thought was right, and I was wrong, but at least we have a cleaner, less polluted planet.

What will you say?
Posted by Billyd, Tuesday, 6 December 2016 6:08:01 PM
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I urge everyone to watch this documentary, if you have Netflix you can watch it there, it's called Cowspiracy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-XP79o8gqQ

This doco is not without it's critics, and some of the numbers are disputed, some up, and some down, but still well worth a look.
Posted by Billyd, Tuesday, 6 December 2016 6:15:00 PM
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Hi Billyd,
EXACTLY! If the climate community are wrong (which for me would be like discovering Newton's laws of physics were wrong, or the Earth rotating the Sun was wrong!), then we would have prepared for the peaking of resources before it got to serious. Remember, the energy *supply* crisis does not start when the resource suddenly runs out. It's when they peak and begin to decline and supply for the coal, oil, or gas can never again meet demand.

If it's all a big conspiracy... we would have cleaner air, energy not for a generation but forever, less potential for oil wars, and jobs in industries that will last. Oil, coal, and gas are finite but LONG before they run out they peak and become far more expensive. That's a real problem, especially with oil. Peak oil is no where as serious as climate change, but it IS a threat and we would be far better served if our leaders moved to wean off it early.

Oh, and we'd save the *millions* of lives a year lost to fossil fuel pollution!
Posted by Max Green, Tuesday, 6 December 2016 8:03:37 PM
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