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The Forum > Article Comments > The Islamic hatred of modernity > Comments

The Islamic hatred of modernity : Comments

By Woody Brock, published 4/10/2016

Their religious convictions are amplified by their detestation of the cultural, economic, ethical, and political values of Westerners.

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Jardine, if the Bible can be successfully re-interpreted as a message of peace and love, then I don't see any problem with the Koran.

1 Samuel 15 (New International Version)
The LORD Rejects Saul as King

1 Samuel said to Saul, “I am the one the LORD sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the LORD. 2 This is what the LORD Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’ ”

Luke 14:26
Parallel Verses
New International Version

"If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters--yes, even their own life--such a person cannot be my disciple."

No problem at all.
Posted by Jon J, Wednesday, 5 October 2016 5:42:59 AM
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Hi Jon,

Yes, it's fun to cite bits from someone's books from two and three thousand years ago. Piss easy. What bastards they all were then, and aren't I lucky to be so superior, as of course I am to even modern people ?

So who today applies those two and three thousand-year-old ritualised instructions ? Who has been killed at random recently in the application of those instructions ?

On the other hand, if you have the courage, open the Koran at any page and you will see, if you open your eyes, injunctions to kill and torture and exterminate. People are following that book to the letter, now, today. Isn't that so ? So why do you have to go back thousands of years ?

As an atheist, I'm comfortable with the notion that the crucial principles of the Enlightenment have been, against much opposition and over hundreds of years, derived from splits and schisms and conflicts within and in opposition to the various western Christian churches.

Which makes me laugh at Daffy Duck's position, the standard adolescent position, which condemns the very conditions which allow him the luxury and freedoms to criticise the wicked world. Try Aleppo, Daffy, see bow you go. What a warker.

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Friday, 7 October 2016 5:30:20 PM
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'Jardine, if the Bible can be successfully re-interpreted as a message of peace and love, then I don't see any problem with the Koran.'

probably the most ignorant statement of 2016.Can't get something so simple right so not much hope of fixing anything a tiny bit complex. You would do well to run for the Greens JonJ. You inability to show any logic would fit well.
Posted by runner, Friday, 7 October 2016 5:43:18 PM
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//you will see, if you open your eyes//

Yes, that is usually the recommended method for seeing stuff. Or did you mean 'see' as some daft euphemism for 'apply liberal amounts of creative interpretation to vaguely worded tripe'?

//open the Koran at any page//

It says a lot about a man when he can interpret the publishing details & copyright notice page as an exhortation to torture and murder ;)

//People are following that book to the letter, now, today. Isn't that so ?//

I doubt it. I haven't read the whole thing, but then I haven't read the whole Bible either. I know they're self-contradictory. All the great religious texts are. Bugger all consistency, so that people can pick out the bits they like. A church that is not broad is doomed.

It's impossible to follow the Bible to the letter, unless perhaps you suffer from dissociative identity disorder and different personalities handle the self-contradictory bits. Reckon the same is probably true for Muslims. I don't think Sufi mystics and ISIS jihadis are reading the same bits in their Korans, for example.

Yes, there are Muslims who interpret their Koran the wrong way. But honestly, there are f$%k all of them in this country and a good deal fewer in your backyard, so I don't know why you're fretting so much. Why is perspective a commodity in such short supply these days? I reckon the internet probably has a lot to do with it. And people not reading enough good books. And short attention spa... ooh look, new No Such Thing As A Fish.

http://qi.com/podcast/
Posted by Toni Lavis, Friday, 7 October 2016 11:35:07 PM
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Hi Toni,

I deeply apologise, I should have realised that the Koran may have a multitude of references to brutality within the body of the work, but not on the title page, or publisher's details. Please forgive me.

As an aside, Jon J. began the comments to this thread " .... Islam in the Middle East is currently in the position that Christianity in Europe was four hundred years ago .... "

I'm puzzled why she chose four hundred years ago - why not fourteen hundred years ago ? I wonder can she understand that the Koran absolutely rules out change, that its words are supposed to be those of a god, never to be modified in any way ? Therefore, believers are stuck with whatever the book says ? So it may be that the only way to escape the fascist grip of Islam is to repudiate it entirely ?

So it's not 'four hundred years' behind Christianity, it's an infinity behind, an unbridgeable gap in time precisely because the Koran cannot be changed.

Yes, you're right, most Muslims have probably never read much of the Koran, certainly not if they don't read Arabic, into which the Koran has been translated from the original. And yes, probably only a tiny fraction of the 1.5 billion Muslims will ever be inclined to go on murderous, random killing rampages in the belief that they will get into Paradise (and into those 72 virgins) that much quicker, and provide pathways for their families to do so as well.

After all, a tiny percentage of 1.5 billion isn't all that much, is it ?

So until some crazy Christian bastards start randomly killing right, left and centre, in one country after another, I respectfully suggest you keep your head firmly rammed up there, where you can safely see nothing, hear nothing and say nothing but apologist rubbish.

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Saturday, 8 October 2016 12:17:15 PM
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@Loudmouth, Saturday, 8 October 2016 12:17:15 PM
Hi Joe.
Your comment: "So it's not 'four hundred years' behind Christianity, it's an infinity behind, an unbridgeable gap in time precisely because the Koran cannot be changed." is I think correct and there is simply no overcoming that gap.

BTW Joe, I believe your reference to the 72 virgins is an unfortunate mistranslation. I am informed that the correct reference should be to a single, solitary 72 y.o. virgin eagerly awaiting her next hero. :)

Jardine K. Jardine, Tuesday, 4 October 2016 2:57:26 PM faces the matter squarely when he states: "...the only hope of a Muslim reformation can only be by way of them moving *away* from the teachings of their religion. By definition, such a movement can't expect much help from Muslims."

By the same token little practical reliance can be placed upon those courageous souls who publicly abandon their previous allegiance to Islam.

For our part, Australia has a long tradition of ratbags in all walks of life and for the most part we cheerfully tolerate them.

However a religiously minded ratbag intent upon our destruction is something wholly new to us. It seems that in many ways we are still trying to come to grips with this - particularly with the single-mindedness of those who would do us harm.
Posted by Pilgrim, Tuesday, 11 October 2016 7:23:02 PM
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