The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > Article Comments > Goodbye Menzies > Comments

Goodbye Menzies : Comments

By Everald Compton, published 2/9/2016

The great political party, The Liberals, formed by Robert Menzies seven decades ago, is in its death throes. It has been assassinated by right wing zealots.

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. ...
  6. 5
  7. 6
  8. 7
  9. Page 8
  10. 9
  11. 10
  12. All
Craig,

I am familiar with the Kohlberg's work to which you referred, and aside from your "diagnosis" which was simplistic at best, the use of the reference was primarily a thinly veiled insult, which unsurprisingly got a negative reaction.

Secondly, you asked me "I don't have any special opinion on Everard's article. Is there anything in particular you think is definitively wrong with it?" I gave a prime example of Everard's writing complete BS to make a political point. That I don't particularly like GWB is irrelevant to the point I was making.

If you are genuinely interested in civilized discourse avoid ad hominems however subtle.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Tuesday, 6 September 2016 12:20:16 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
There was no ad hom, Shadow Minister, merely an observation of behaviour and a deliberately simplified characterisation of that based on Kohlberg's work, which I have invited others to explore for themselves, including linking to a good layperson's explanatory page.

You can't have it both ways: if I expand beyond the most basic explanations I'm "flaunting" my (apparently offensive) learning; if I don't, I'm being simplistic. Which is it?

I was also acting in the hope that the poster in question might reconsider his propensity for childish outbursts. It seems unlikely if people like you choose to defend the indefensible way he behaves. Remember mate, lie down with dogs and you wake up with fleas...

I have to say I agree with Everald's characterisation of Bush. He may have attended Harvard and Yale, but he escaped without being tainted by education.
Posted by Craig Minns, Tuesday, 6 September 2016 12:34:39 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
A good timely article. I generally agree, bar a few provisos.

If anyone thinks that the Menzies era was a land of milk and honey think again. The reality of 1960s Australia was a time when Pensioners were eating dogfood while paying exorbitantly high private rents to live in slum like conditions. No Medicare, no public hospitals except in QLD under Joh.

If today we were living in a nation built on Menzies's "values" there would be riots, blood on the streets, buildings burning. But if the RW ideologues that infest the LNP/ONP today win out then we will be heading there soon enough.

This nation (no nation) can afford to be governed by pathological narcissistic ideologues. Our nation is founded on Empathy and a Commonwealth not who has the biggest egos!

Don't believe anything Howard says about "Menzies built modern Australia." It's 100% false and a twisted version of reality. Howard's distorted personal mythology, a myopic deluded world view.

re: "Then, the rot set in as the Liberals moved steadily to the right, finally going heavily in that direction when Tony Abbott arrived"

I vehemently disagree. It shifted to the right extreme neo-liberal ideology and 'welfare for the already well off' under Howard. Abbott was his love child. Howard & Costello laid the foundations for today's fiscal fantasies, housing price bubble, $4 billion/yr given to non-productive property investors in Tax Breaks, the end of car manufacturing, rising national debt, unsustainable tax cuts, a new political class with hearts of stone!

Howard's Govt ruined this nation. Destroyed the values of egalitarianism. He callously pitted groups against each other not seen since the early 20thC.

He threw Govt funds at people for their Vote and made Laws for special interests/corporations/think tanks for their PR backing. Took us into an insidious war with an untrustworthy dishonest partner.

He was so bad he lost his own seat. The worst PM this nation ever!

re: "Hopefully, Independents would eventually outnumber all of them."

YES!

Liberals, Nationals, Labor, Greens all deserve a shellacking by The People.

We are the Government not IPA/LNP High-Priests
Posted by Thomas O'Reilly, Wednesday, 7 September 2016 11:11:54 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Craig,

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ad%20hominem

Ad hominem is when someone instead of addressing the topic addresses the character of the opponent in negative fashion, and you comment did exactly that.

Secondly, I said your analysis was simplistic, not your explanation. Perhaps I should have used other descriptions such as superficial, flimsy etc.

Thirdly, Perhaps you could dig deep into your training and work out what irritates people, education or "flaunting"

Finally, it is common error of the left to confuse people's unpopular decisions with stupidity or poor education If they were better educated they wouldn't make such elementary errors.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Wednesday, 7 September 2016 11:55:10 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Shadow Minister,

I agree with your comment about flaunting one's education. sooner or later you will encounter someone who has a much bigger one, eg with a masters degree or two PhDs.

A few years ago the 'counter jihad' I occasionally commented on was attacked by a pair of Swedish 'leftists'. They had decided, without any evidence, that most of the commenters on the site had 'only primary educations'. The admin surveyed the commenters and discovered that we were better educated than the Western average.

Good manners prevent me from 'flaunting'.
Posted by mac, Wednesday, 7 September 2016 12:26:42 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Shadow Minister, the poster in question made no argument to address: his only response was abuse (which is also his standard response on every other topic), which was why I responded the way I did. I wish he would make some cogent arguments, but it seems that isn't within his grasp at the moment. Perhaps you, as one of his more ardent supporters, might try to persuade him to learn how?

Now, to your own comments: presumably you can inform me what was "simplistic [...] superficial or silly" about my analysis? I'm fascinated...really.

First, of course, you'll have to tell us what you think my analytical process involved, since I certainly haven't done so. It must be nice to be clairvoyant.

mac, I have made no effort at all to "flaunt" my education. I only mentioned it in response to a question from you. If you didn't want to have it known, why did you ask?

However, I am quite proud of being still capable of undertaking high-level study at my age. I'll be even prouder if I succeed. what have you done recently that you're proud to "flaunt"?
Posted by Craig Minns, Wednesday, 7 September 2016 12:56:38 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. ...
  6. 5
  7. 6
  8. 7
  9. Page 8
  10. 9
  11. 10
  12. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy