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The Forum > Article Comments > Gay rights activists deny our moral agency > Comments

Gay rights activists deny our moral agency : Comments

By Shimon Cowen, published 10/8/2016

According to this traditional understanding of the human being, homosexuality does not define the essential dimension – which is the soul or conscience – of any person.

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Yes, Interactive, sexual orientation certainly is a risk factor for psychiatric disorders, but that doesn’t mean it’s a cause. You’re making the classic mistake of attributing causation to correlation.

<<This survey was undertaken in the Netherlands, where there is a high acceptance of homosexuality…>>

Homophobia still exists in the Netherlands. There are other factors too, however:

“In addition, the gay commercial world in which some men and women may participate to find partners and friends may make misuse of alcohol and cigarettes more likely. The former in particular can have adverse effects on mental well-being.”

http://psychcentral.com/lib/higher-risk-of-mental-health-problems-for-homosexuals
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2072932

Your attempts to instrinsically link homosexuality to mental health issues are not supported by the evidence.

<<…and at this point, no amount of acceptance of homosexuality will reduce the higher incidence of psychiatric disorders among homosexuals.>>

This is your assumption. There is no evidence for this.

<<They should change their life-style instead.>>

Homosexuality is not a lifestyle, nor does it have any one kind of lifestyle. They can’t become heterosexual any more than you can turn gay.

Not all gay people behave in the way that you mention either. Probably less so too now that they don’t have to keep so quite about it. I know of places where straight people can do similar things and act in similar ways. It’s just not as much of a big deal when we do it.

<<It is known what homosexuals do...>>

Really? All of them?

<<...and very little of it can be recommended to children, or anyone else.>>

Again, who are these people recommending it to children, and (because I know what you’re going to say) what are some specific examples of this?
Posted by AJ Philips, Wednesday, 10 August 2016 1:43:43 PM
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AJ Philips

There is very little intolerance of homosexuality in the Netherlands, with 93% of the Dutch population ‘not negative’ about homosexuality

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2016/05/dutch-tolerance-of-homosexuality-increases-new-survey-shows/

And yet, the level of psychiatric disorders among homosexuals in the Netherlands remains disproportionately high.

And with the proliferation of "male only" parties around Sydney (where women are not allowed), I don't think homosexuals can be complaining about discrimination.

The largest "male only" party in Sydney is being called "BLOW".

If homosexuals were to clean up their act, maybe then they might be more accepted.

But then, they might want their "male only" parties in every town.
Posted by interactive, Wednesday, 10 August 2016 2:11:43 PM
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You can't be born a homosexual since there is no such thing. There are just heterosexuals who indulge in homosexual type behaviour. Such behaviour is a neurosis in which individuals try and meet certain emotional needs by simulating sex with people of their own gender.

People often use sexual behaviour to 'act out' in a symbolic way what they really want. It is not sex but intimacy. Sex can be a way of trying to get 'inside' the other person in the hope that you can make an emotional connection with someone in the past or present.

This is what people are always doing when they indulge in simulated sex with people of their own sex. Why else would you prefer a simulation to the real thing? Why would you deliberately choose a lesser pleasure when you have the option of a better one?

Heterosexual people may also 'act out' when they have sex but they have not chosen a lesser pleasure so you cannot necessarily tell whether or not they are acting out or pursuing more reasonable ends such as the best pleasure or procreation.

Heterosexual behaviour can be reasonable but homosexual behaviour is never reasonable.
Posted by phanto, Wednesday, 10 August 2016 2:56:56 PM
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Interactive,

That may be so.

<<There is very little intolerance of homosexuality in the Netherlands, with 93% of the Dutch population ‘not negative’ about homosexuality>>

But as I noted earlier, and as was mentioned in the articles I linked to (scholarly articles too, mind you), there are multiple factors at work there.

<<And with the proliferation of "male only" parties around Sydney (where women are not allowed), I don't think homosexuals can be complaining about discrimination.>>

This is the Tu quoque fallacy. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque)

It is touching, though, that someone who is bigoted towards one demographic is simultaneously so concerned about the equal treatment of another.

phanto,

What is the evidence for any of your claims? Or are you simply engaging in more of your amateur psychology again?

<<Why would you deliberately choose a lesser pleasure when you have the option of a better one?>>

This gave me a chuckle. It would have to be one of the stupidest comments you’ve ever made, and you’ve made some whoppers in your time. What's pleasurable for one isn't pleasurable for all. I, for example, don't understand how some derive sexual pleasure from the pain involved in bondage.

Did it ever occur to you that being with the opposite sex is also less satisfying to gay people on an emotional level? Or do you have some made-up psychological explanation for this too?

<<Heterosexual behaviour can be reasonable but homosexual behaviour is never reasonable.>>

How do you define “reasonable” then? Because this statement makes little sense using a dictionary definition of the word. What is unreasonable about homosexual behaviour? Is it that you think they too must necessarily enjoy it as little as you?
Posted by AJ Philips, Wednesday, 10 August 2016 3:16:12 PM
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I tend to agree with what Zigmund Freud once said about human sexuality to a certain degree, that is we are all born with innate bisexuality and it is the societal and cultural conditioning that "encourages" one to be heterosexual based on the gender they are born with. This process of conditioning begins from day one of life for any given individual. > http://psychology.jrank.org/pages/83/Bisexuality.html

Also, the author should exercise caution when basing the discussion around traditional interpretations of what it means to be human. This concept is under the biggest threat to its true meaning since the dawn of civilization itself in today's progressive world. Just look at the world of work and careers, that is changing quicker than most folks acknowledge.
Our sense of identity as human beings and a large part of that traditionally has been based on what one does for a living. That in itself is under serious threat today. This is just a quick example of how our identity as human beings is dynamic in interpretation throughout the ages.

Terrorist groups like ISIL or ISIS or Daesh (whatever you want to call them) know this and exploit it to the unemployed and/or disillusioned young folks around the globe to give them a new sense of "identity", and thus meaning in their lives. Even if the rest of us class this as a sick cult based on hell and death.
Posted by Rojama, Wednesday, 10 August 2016 3:34:13 PM
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Hi interactive

1. Indeed your observations on the inherent contradictions of Intentionally Exhibitionistic Mardi Gras

then

"Oh don't you oppress me" look accurate.
_______________________________________________________

2. On discriminatory one gender only parties (subtley called "BLOW") see http://www.underwhereparty.com.au/
_____________________________________________________________

3. Another observation is that:

Its no longer the "Love That Dare Not Speak Its Name"

but The Love that won't shut up.
______________________________

This is noting the foibles of human nature even extend to special choices.
Posted by plantagenet, Wednesday, 10 August 2016 4:45:40 PM
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