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The Forum > Article Comments > How do we defeat Islamo-Nihilism? > Comments

How do we defeat Islamo-Nihilism? : Comments

By Sam Ben-Meir, published 9/8/2016

ISIS is failing and will fail not only because it is a brutal and shortsighted organization that rules through fear and totalitarian control of day-to-day life, but because it is a denial of the creativity of the human mind.

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There's not a lot wrong with building dream castle in the clouds, always providing you don't take up permenant residence!?

Defeat Islamo-Nihilism? I'll have two of what he's taking!

This rabid mad dog ideology can't be defeated? just isolated and eliminated with extreme prejudice!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Tuesday, 9 August 2016 9:48:54 AM
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Hi Alan,

I think the author is mostly on the right track: Islamo-fascism, Islamo-nihilism, ultra-extreme-right-wing Islamism - must be defeated, and as you say, eliminated. How is the question, not just militarily - that could go on for a century in new and worse forms after ISIS is wiped out - but ideologically.

And if there are any bits in the Koran at all which might bring believers closer to the modern world, and closer to something remotely 'progressive', then I'm all for it: the author's focus on how Muslims are to deal with the 'Other' is perhaps one key:

"The question we need to ask is: what is the neighbor? Is it someone who reminds us more or less of ourselves? Or is the neighbor rather that which startles us by their unfamiliarity, their strangeness, their refusal to accommodate our expectations of the other?

"I submit that it is the latter - and if that is the case, then perhaps there is an alternative to irrational fear and hate. To fully rescue Islam from the nihilistic violence of today will mean championing an Islam that is radical in its embrace of the excluded other, that represents solidarity and non-violent resistance in the face of social inequity, oligarchy, exploitation, and injustice."

For some people, the very existence of the 'Other', anybody different, who believes different, acts different, thinks different, is intolerable. By definition, any 'Other' is Evil itself, of the devil, vile, not human, a mortal threat, to be exterminated if possible.

This raises the question: can some religious-based ideologies be psychotic ?

Whereas the modern, civilized approach - as we've seen with the welcoming of a million refugees into Europe, right or wrong for other reasons - is an embrace of the 'Other', the different, the neighbour. Maybe that 'embrace' has been a bit too enthusiastic, but the intention was honourable - and one could say progressive, a gesture of trust and hope.

Whatever can be found in the Koran which is progressive should be promoted and supported.

Cheers,

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Tuesday, 9 August 2016 11:39:33 AM
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Quran (8:12) -

"I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

This is contradictory to the claim by the author that the "Koran prohibits forcible conversion"

Or perhaps decapitation is not forced conversion.

But there is no evidence that the Quran contains the word of God, with so many translations and re-writes of the Quran (at least 6 rewrites have been counted, and numerous translations)

For example, the Yusuf Ali translation of verse 8.12 is

"I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."

While the Mohsin Khan translation of verse 8.12 says

"Verily, I am with you, so keep firm those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who have disbelieved, so strike them over the necks, and smite over all their fingers and toes."

http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=8&verse=12

There are various differences in this verse, and there needs to be verification of which translation actually came from God, so non-believers will know.
Posted by interactive, Tuesday, 9 August 2016 1:13:00 PM
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Hi Interactive,

Yes, it's not hard to find brutal, anti-'neighbour' - anti-'other' - verses in every edition of the Koran. It's not hard to find utterly totalitarian verses and outright psychotic verses in a book supposedly given to an illiterate trader in a desert cave (although one wonders how a trader, even in those days, could be illiterate).

And no, it's not easy to find anything which - from an unbeliever's point of view - would give any hope of a sense of common humanity between Muslims and non-Muslims, a sense of 'neighbourliness', of accepting the 'Other' and leaving him/her in peace.

But in the twentieth century, with the world's population experiencing all sorts of modern technology based on scientific principles which were and are unknown to Islamic thought and yet universally lived with, the mismatch between the totalitarianism of the book and the reality which we all live, including Muslims, surely can't continue.

So whatever can be found in the book which is, however remotely, 'progressive' should be celebrated. Otherwise, how can we live together without looking over our shoulders ?

Cheers,

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Tuesday, 9 August 2016 1:35:53 PM
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Loudmouth

I believe Mohammad could count, and was not that illiterate.

For example, Quran 4:3 says that a man could marry two or three or four women.

So Mohammad could at least count to 4.

I have had difficulty sorting out the "progressive" parts from the "not so progressive" parts in the Quran.

For example:

Quran 4:36

"Worship Allah and join none with Him in worship, and do good to parents, kinsfolk, orphans, Al-Masakin (the poor), the neighbour who is near of kin, the neighbour who is a stranger, the companion by your side, the wayfarer (you meet), and those (slaves) whom your right hands possess."

Now everything was going along well until the last part about the slaves "whom your right hands possess."

It becomes difficult for people such as myself to somehow skip over or ignore those "not so progressive" parts in the Quran, when the vast majority of it is so totally objectionable.
Posted by interactive, Tuesday, 9 August 2016 2:50:56 PM
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Hi Interactive,

Yes, I agree: "It becomes difficult for people such as myself to somehow skip over or ignore those "not so progressive" parts in the Quran, when the vast majority of it is so totally objectionable."

"Not so progressive" is an under-statement: Islam, in the worst sense of the word, must be one of the most reactionary bodies of belief devised. One wonders why, in the minds of Muslims who have actually read the Koran, did their god even bother to create humans if he/she/it is so ready to butcher them in the most dreadful ways.

As the philosopher Frank Pledge suggests, Christians, in their exercise of free will as sanctioned by their god, may be consumed with guilt and remorse, but Muslims, having no free will since only their god has that, can only be plagued by a sense of shame and dishonour/honour, but never by a sense of guilt or remorse.

The earlier verses of the Koran, the Mecca verses, written by Muhammad and others when they were weak, are far more conciliatory than the later Medina verses, when they were powerful. And later again, of course Muhammad returned to Mecca and butchered the Jewish population which had earlier sheltered him and his few followers.

But supposedly those earlier, conciliatory verses are part of the Koran, ignoring the blatant contradictions with later verses. As such, they would be as valid as the more brutal verses about cutting off right arms and left legs, and building slow fires on people's stomachs. Perhaps it may be possible to take those as guides ?

Of course, this is all up to Muslims themselves. They can, like it or not, make the choice between the live-and-let-live verses and the brutal verses of their book, if they want to be 'neighbours' to the civilized world.

Cheers,

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Tuesday, 9 August 2016 3:47:30 PM
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'Judeo-Christianity is threatened not by radical Islam but by right wing, anti-immigrant racism.'

No Ben you are wrong. Left wing fools who really think they are clever in getting simple things mixed up has destroyed western civilisation. Secularism/feminism is like Islam in that it is a death cult. Millions of unborn are slaughtered and then we invite those in vastly inferior cultures to establish that culture here. Secularism has encouraged and promoted gross immorality and made homosexuality a badge of honor instead of shame. Secularism now wants to fool little kids that having a penis does not make you a boy or a vagina a girl.

Don't be fooled however Ben, the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ has not been caught out by this foolishness. He predicted these things would happen.
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 9 August 2016 4:23:38 PM
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Loudmouth

Yes, it is stated many times in Islamic text that Allah is all powerful and all mighty.

For example

"And Allah drove back those who disbelieved in their rage, they gained no advantage (booty, etc.). Allah sufficed for the believers in the fighting (by sending against the disbelievers a severe wind and troops of angels). And Allah is Ever All-Strong, All-Mighty."

http://www.comp.leeds.ac.uk/nora/html/33-25.html

Allah could summon up severe winds and troops of angles, so why did Allah need Mohammad anyway?

Mohammad said he was visited by the angle Gabriel, and the angle Gabriel told him he had to kill the men and boys of Qurayza.

So why couldn't the angles do that?

The angles were so powerful, they could easily dispense with the men and boys of Qurayza.

But no....they were not powerful enough, and they had to get Mohammad to dispense with the men and boys of Qurayza.

Islam relies on not asking too many questions, or thinking too much.

Now in this article, the author states that ISIS is "an intellectually starved group that is devoid of ideas, of anything resembling theological or philosophical content. Thinking or theorizing outside the strict bounds of Sharia is forbidden and regarded as a criminal violation of Islamic law."

ISIS is not the only one.
Posted by interactive, Tuesday, 9 August 2016 4:43:50 PM
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Hi Interactive,

Why ? It's called 'complicity', a lot like the tactic of criminals inducting new members, to 'blood' them', or perverts suck impressionable targets into committing acts of perversion: once you're in, you're tainted for life.

I'd suggest that strict Islam relies on not asking ANY questions, just accepting, and surrendering (= Islam).

At least, in the Old Testament, god didn't mash Adam and Eve between his fingers for eating of the Tree of Knowledge, or cut off their right arms and let legs (Surah 5: 33), only banished them out into the real world to make their own way.

Cheers,

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Tuesday, 9 August 2016 5:27:15 PM
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Loudmouth

I don't think Allah or the angels had much to do with it.

Voices do not appear out of nowhere, and angels do not appear out of nowhere and speak to people, as stated by Mohammad.

They are hallucinations and delusions, and in today's more scientific world, such hallucinations and delusions would be symptomatic of schizophrenia.

"Hallucinations can involve hearing, seeing, tasting, feeling or smelling something that does not exist, but which the sufferer believes is real. Similarly, delusions are unfounded beliefs, for example, of persecution, guilt or grandeur that seem utterly real to the person experiencing them"

https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/conditionsandtreatments/schizophrenia

However, schizophrenia would not be an excuse for what Mohammad did to 1000s of men, women and children.
Posted by interactive, Tuesday, 9 August 2016 5:50:53 PM
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Islamist 'terror' attacks are often false flags. Why do I say that?

Lets go back a bit.

In the old days when the people had an issue with the govt they went to the kings castle and confronted king wielding swords and knives.

Ever noticed how todays terrorist attacks are always aimed at the mass of nobodies and not at the kings and Queens in power land.

Ever notice how the neocons are never the targets of terrorist attacks?

Perhaps you might like to consider asking why that might be?

Terrorism often masquerades as the protector.
Posted by Referundemdrivensocienty, Thursday, 11 August 2016 5:45:49 PM
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Hi Interactive,

I wasn't suggesting that anybody's myths actually occurred, sorry to give the wrong impression. As for hallucinations, yes, people who fast for days are very likely to have them. Often during Ramadan, I'm told, some people are slightly hallucinating by sun-down.

It's revealing, by the way, that the No-Fat Kale and Soy-Buffalo-Cheese Set probably never have hallucinations, at least not for those reasons, or reasons of poverty.

RDS,

Neo-cons don't congregate conveniently together, so there's your answer. But don't let a bit of paranoia go wasted: notice what proportion of neo-cons are Right-Handed ? Yeah. That's right.

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Thursday, 11 August 2016 6:12:20 PM
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The key to the apparent contradiction between ISIS and Sam Ben-Meir is ABROGATION. Later parts of the Koran abrogate earlier parts. It's a trick, a stratagem. A bit like the same stratagem employed by the Chinese Communists. They said "Let a hundred flowers bloom, let a hundred schools of thought contend." So a Democracy Wall was erected where there was free expression and the suckers fell right in, writing propositions that meant freedom. The secret police watched, identifying the dissidents. Then the Party suddenly proclaimed "By a hundred flowers we didn't mean poisonous weeds". Abrogation. In came the tanks and guns and Tienanmen Square was a killing field. (The killers are the people we are now inviting to buy up our strategic assets, our having long been suckered by the abrogation trick as we are being suckered by Islam).
Posted by EmperorJulian, Monday, 15 August 2016 7:01:41 PM
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