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The Forum > Article Comments > Senate must be made aware something’s gotta give > Comments

Senate must be made aware something’s gotta give : Comments

By Gary Johns, published 14/7/2016

It is not in Labor's interests to allow the budget deficit, which it created, first by spending more than it had and second by refusing Coalition savings, to get further out of hand.

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Published in the safe seat of "the Australian" and "OLO".

Gary all you have said is despite the fact that most Australians didn't vote for the Lib/Nats the lower house and senate should pass whatever they put up!

Gary I'm not sure you have a grasp on democrazy and how is works.
Posted by Cobber the hound, Thursday, 14 July 2016 9:33:40 AM
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The "something" thats gotta give is all you greedy rightards and your mates in big business. Give the taxman his dues just like the rest of us and stop the rorts and cayman island scams.
Posted by mikk, Thursday, 14 July 2016 9:41:57 AM
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The two final paragraphs are the ones to focus on. The nonsense has gone on far too long.
Posted by ttbn, Thursday, 14 July 2016 10:04:40 AM
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Strangely and unusually, this is one of hose rare occasions I mostly agree with Mr. Johns.

The Labor party needs to remain mindful of the greens and the threat they pose, if they with the help of minors and non elected swill or those bereft of an actual mandate can effectively prevent government from implementing essential policy?

And ought to be bending over backwards to ensure the passage of sensible if somewhat amended policy!

If that then results in some of their better ideas being implemented as amended policies by the coalition?

A good outcome and a return to sensible bipartisan arrangements we can all live with!?

Never again can we or should we allow the tail to effectively wag the dog or hold an elected, but hostage government to ransom! With disastrous results for (no government I lead) Labor?
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Thursday, 14 July 2016 11:35:26 AM
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Two defects in Johns' conservative assumptions:

1. If the Big End of Town paid its taxes rather than evading taxes by leaning on Turnbull, the Government would have ample revenue to fund essential services. Shifting profits (earned in Australia) to Ireland is a rich company's desertion of Australia.

2. Also the old line that Government's Shouldn't Borrow is like saying Banks Shouldn't Borrow. Of course Banks and Government's borrow as part of their prudent financial planning.
Posted by plantagenet, Thursday, 14 July 2016 12:06:04 PM
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A further note: The two major parties are in a predicament of their own making! Every boy and his dog knows we need essential reform, particularly as regards our broken and still hugely and unnecessarily complex tax system and consequent withdrawn or under funded social justice outcomes. Instead it's business as usual, (every man for himself) and seeming crony capitalism?

Along with a heaping helping of pious hypocritical moralizing about other peoples' private sexual peccadilloes, all while allowing or simply tolerating white collar crime?

Which appears to be selectively enabled and allowed to flourish? Even as our erstwhile Leaders resist a proper and open enquiry into possible criminal behaviour, that's possibly costing Joe Blow millions or billions?

What has gotta give is the old (nonsense) mantras and business as usual!

If the major parties remain (real) reform shy and allergic to cooperative capitalism, (our real economic saviour) then don't be surprised if Joe public turn elsewhere!

If you can't or won't lend a hand, then get out of the way of those who can and will, for the times they're a changing!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Thursday, 14 July 2016 12:14:56 PM
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If you want Labour to ignore it's left wing then the Libs/Nats need to ignore their Right wing it's as simple as that.
Posted by Cobber the hound, Thursday, 14 July 2016 1:28:15 PM
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The voters voted for senators and it is up to no one to tell them which way to vote.
Posted by doog, Thursday, 14 July 2016 2:12:35 PM
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very ironic that the regressives backing of their sweetheart Turnbull resulted in Hanson getting so many votes. Beautiful justice!
Posted by runner, Thursday, 14 July 2016 2:33:52 PM
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Dear runner,

How exactly do you think Christ would have viewed Pauline Hanson? Would it have been different to you?

Dear Gary,

Instead of “Senate must be made aware something’s gotta give” perhaps given the election result a more appropriate title might have been “The Libs must be made aware something’s gotta give”.

You would have to be pretty thick not to be getting the message that the populace is okay with savings as long as they are fair. The reason Jackie Lamby was returned is because she was seen to be sticking up for the battlers.

There is a huge difference in attempting to raise the GST to give tax cuts to the top end and to companies who don't appear to be paying their fair share in the first place, compared to raising money for schools and hospitals as Mike Baird was originally touting.

The first is thankfully stymied due to the moderating votes of the crossbenchers and the second was never properly put to the Australian people.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Thursday, 14 July 2016 4:02:42 PM
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'How exactly do you think Christ would have viewed Pauline Hanson? Would it have been different to you? '

as a sinner like you and me Steelie.
Posted by runner, Thursday, 14 July 2016 4:53:20 PM
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Tax avoidance by the big boys is an international issue
http://thenewdaily.com.au/money/2016/07/11/architects-global-tax-avoidance-revealed/

To say the welfare system should not be pared back until the big boys pay their share is head in the sand. Our tax office is pushing SU trying to do what it can, and much much more needs doing, including legislatively. Meanwhile, we have to work with what we have.

Certainly, company tax cuts to these large companies should not even be considered until transfer pricing etc. is dealt with, but these cuts are years off in the Turnbull plan, anyway.

No, we have a culture where too many are voting for their living rather than earning it, and this is reflected in the Senate makeup and opposition to measures needed. Basically, until resources again go gangbusters it looks like we are incapable of achieving anything like a surplus to pay down the debt. Instead we live beyond our means and leaving our children to suck it up.
Posted by Luciferase, Friday, 15 July 2016 12:18:59 PM
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Hey Alan B.
"Never again can we or should we allow the tail to effectively wag the dog or hold an elected, but hostage government to ransom! With disastrous results for (no government I lead) Labor?"

Well maybe we should just get rid of the Liberal and Labor parties altogether because I don't EVER plan on voting for either of them.

Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me.

Why would I trust any group of people that lies to me, doesn't keep election promises, is not accountable when they mess up, rips off taxpayers and fines me when I choose not to vote for them?
If the two parties want to be unappealing and weak on real policies and do these things above dragging the nation into disrepute then they have themselves to blame.

If the dog wants to run in front of a car then the tail was right to wag it.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Saturday, 16 July 2016 9:28:14 AM
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I can't figure out if you are blaming the Senate or govt; If there was no senate, the house would vote and get the same result.
Posted by doog, Saturday, 16 July 2016 4:32:27 PM
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If there was no Senate, Abbott's budget would have passed.

Now the electors have not been lied to about the budget as it was announced before the election, and the LNP won gov't on its back. The Senate should back off because the people have spoken.

The Senate is a house of review ensuring state interests are considered and amendments made, not whether the people have made an electoral error.
Posted by Luciferase, Saturday, 16 July 2016 5:19:13 PM
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There is no need for any budget deflicts. People should make it their businenss to lean about how money gets created. They would discover:

Its becoming more widely known all the time that banks create money out of thin air and that Govt can do the same thing using the exact same method if they wanted to.

Are you aware that it was your servant govt who gave the banks the right to control the creation of money but at the same time your servants did not reserve for you and I, through their legislative power, the right to do the same thing on our behalf. If they had, it's likely that you and I would be paying little or no tax at all today.

Why do I say the govt gave the banks the right to create money to the exclusion of govt? Well, because the commonwealth government is the supreme power in the country is it not?

The banks can't give themselves that power can they? or can they?

Before someone goes on about govt cant be given control of money otherwise will have runaway inflation bla bla bla.

Govt prints about 5-10% of the money in circulation. The banks, through their ability to create money out thin air creates 90-95% of all the money in circulation.

In 1936 or thereabouts there was a Royal Commission into banking in Australia. The head of the enquiry stated “There is no reason by the Commonwealth Bank cannot create and lend money to the Australian Govt on such terms as it see fit. This includes the non repayment of interest and or principle.”

In short, there are no reason at all why the commonwealth govt cannot create all the money it needs for itself using the exact same means as the banks use, to provide all that is needed in the economy to provide health care for all, education for all, full employment, a reasonable standard of living of all pensioners, the unemployed, the sick etc, etc
Posted by Referundemdrivensocienty, Sunday, 17 July 2016 1:18:59 PM
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"It is not in Labor's interests to allow the budget deficit, which it created, first by spending more than it had and second by refusing Coalition savings, to get further out of hand"

Mr Johns, it's my understanding that the recent Abbott / Turnbull LNP government at least doubled the budget deficit it inherited from the ALP. Is this correct? And if it is, why do you not think it worth mentioning? Do you not think it relevant to this discussion?
Posted by khsharpe, Monday, 18 July 2016 10:44:29 AM
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