The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > Article Comments > Five truths about Australia's education system > Comments

Five truths about Australia's education system : Comments

By Simon Birmingham, published 17/6/2016

The first truth is that the Australian schooling system is not in crisis and overall continues to perform above the OECD average in all categories.

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. All
Well we are blessed with fantastic teachers and resources but the main thing to ensure is that no Christian student is excluded from a Christian education because his or her parents can't afford it.
Posted by progressive pat, Friday, 17 June 2016 10:11:46 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
If this is an argument for the status quo, it needs to be rejected on the grounds we can do so much better, by #1 putting the student in the centre of the education funding model which #2 ought to be means tested and directed by the parent as a needs based direct funding model, #3 coupled to almost absolute autonomy? thus #4 ensuring the one buck of finite money does the most work at the coal face proper.

A school curriculum that doesn't include mandated music is never going to be the best model for us, ditto dogma free mindfulness as practised mandated meditation, presided over by folks who understand that this practise is just and only about stilling the monkey chatter that is the human mind!

Which as shown in the studies, also acts to quite massively decrease stress, anxiety and counterproductive pre examination nerves; and seems to improve long term retention and memory.

And in both cases and as standard practise, has been shown to markedly improve academic outcomes as has early "play based" pre education. That nonetheless contributes to better numeracy and literacy outcomes and whole of life improved productive and lifestyle consequences. Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Friday, 17 June 2016 10:38:40 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Spoken from the safe environment on non government schools, Simon forgets she is the Minster for all not just the Christian schools.

Simon not sure where you are on the Liberal rank for the upper house in SA but watch out Nick is coming.
Posted by Cobber the hound, Friday, 17 June 2016 10:39:38 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Cobber,

Birmingham is the federal minister. "Senator" might have been a clue.

He has also been a defender of the "Safe" Schools program. Says it all.
Posted by calwest, Friday, 17 June 2016 12:08:18 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
@calwest er yes I understand, the senate is also called the upper house and if you recall we are having an election. For upper house ( Senate) voting each party puts up a number of candidates but they are ranked, so if they only get the votes for three positions then only their top three go in.
I'm predicting the Libs will only get three senators in SA in this election. Nick and others are going to pole well, because everybody hates Payne and Cory.
Posted by Cobber the hound, Friday, 17 June 2016 3:24:41 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Simon, whether it be health, domestic violence or education, the funding is poorly distributed in most areas.

As for education, one huge problem is that so many students don't want to be there, and many of these are from parents who don't give a damn, even opting out of the likes of homework.

I feel it would be far more sensible to offer affordable tutoring to those who actually want to learn, or at the very least have parents who want the best for their kids. Otherwise you are simply throwing more money at the symptom and ignoring the cause.
Posted by rehctub, Friday, 17 June 2016 4:27:22 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Simon Birmingham is a man of vision apparently. He is also a Liberals Liberal.
As such a free marketeer.
Education for sale is a Liberal mantra!
Unfortunately, by his own admission, not all will enter the privileged zone of free enterprise education, and not all will progress past a dull public education!

Nothing new under the sun!
Posted by diver dan, Friday, 17 June 2016 10:11:59 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Diver Dan, i'm sure you would agree that had the entitlement brigade been a little more restrained over the years/decades ad, had we as a nation not been burdened by the result of a massive labor policy failure, which now sees us caring for hundreds of thousands that were not there previously, one could rightly assume we would have the funds to provide many services to all, including education.

The whole problem is that you only get to spend money once, and if that spending turns to waste, then someone, or something, has to pay the price.

Despite the best efforts of Bill Shorten to woe the voters, there is no magic pudding and if it were me in a situation of need, I would be more concerned about how labor intends to deal with the top end tax payers, because after all, they are the ones providing the funding, not those relying on it. If he manages to scare them away, not having access to free education will be the least of our concerns.
Posted by rehctub, Saturday, 18 June 2016 8:55:34 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Scare them away? Where to? Europe and a VAT in the low to mid 20's and where a (proposed) wealth tax is driving the wealthy into hell holes like modern day russia?

Simply put, it just doesn't matter which side of the political aisle you sit on, not doing better with education is tantamount to shooting yourself in your own economic foot! Look, we confront a future where robotics will have largely eliminated manual labor!

Sure some kids aren't interested, you think? Well if they're bright and bored out of their brains by the endless repetition. The least capable seem to need, who can blame them? Moreover, if they come from the most disadvantaged sector, lack of food turns a normally active intellect into a ball and chain that makes complex reasoning a thing of the past and or impossible.

Look, there is just one bucket of finite money which needs to underpin economically advantageous education, which has no other choice than promote the best and brightest, Rather than the career paths of a plethora of public servants who simply get in the way with their correlated data demands; and waste around one third of our finite bucket of education funding.

Hungry or bored brainless kids cannot be motivated by dull repetition but ideas that spark their interest! And that means a root and branch review of all education and the adoption of comparative benchmarked best practices.

There will be career ideologues, who will feel threatened by that and or a vastly superior direct funding model that simply deals them and their agenda out, be they union official or religious control freaks none of whom can be allowed to sabotage the reforms we need to embrace, ASAP!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Saturday, 18 June 2016 9:41:37 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Whether we are in crisis or not is perhaps not the question. One claim I heard some time back of significant concern was that we are slipping behind our competitors.

Notwithstanding the above though I accept something of the tightening economic circumstances. And I believe, there is much that can be done to improve the situation without spending any more money at all.

1. PRODUCTIVITY - as of last time I counted, for the average worker to have 1 month holidays + sickies + weekends & public holidays they are in effect only working every second day (not including sleep.) Someone do correct me on that one as required. How many weeks holiday does a teacher get? About 12 if I'm not mistaken. What a joke.

2. SKILLS - Where are teachers most plainly lacking? Answer, in their communiques to parents especially in the area of informed consent documents. Absolutely hopeless generally speaking. Why? That knowledge has plainly been withheld from them and they need it.

SOLUTION - reduce their holidays and make them upgrade their skills on existing pay structure.

3. TEACHING METHODOLOGY - teachers are taught that different people learn in different ways (some prefer oral sequential, some are visual, some are hands on etc) but in practice all most of them can do is oral sequential blah, blah, blah. Question? Why are you still having trouble getting though to 1st Australian children? Answer - too much blah, blah, blah and not enough imagery and not enough hands on.

4. HOMEWORK - in my personal experience, even for the brightest of us just going to lectures or just doing your stuff at school has never been enough. Neither is it for many professions, businesses and the like. Some nightly homework, but don't overdo it. Kids need some kids time. I would suggest that especially for those that need a few extra iterations, not giving them at least the opportunity of finishing off what they couldn't manage in class is to do them a great disservice and disconnects the parents from the curriculum.
Posted by DreamOn, Saturday, 18 June 2016 5:59:08 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
To address *RehTub's* comment visa vi a lot of kids not wanting to be in school at all, I would say that some of them would rather do some practical job, get some money and go and have some fun.

And reflecting on my own personal experience, a lot of kids simply do not understand what the point of it all is. And I believe they deserve to know and would simply draw a line between what the guvment expects (assumed prior learning) of any decent, law abiding, citizen of age and adapt the curriculum to ensure they understand their mutual rights and obligations, the fundamentals of a non-violent power sharing society etc etc well before they arrive at Uni or the after school work force.

You see, the education department even to this day wants to force feed students material that is irrelevant to them. This in turn discourages people which in turn dampens innovation and technology.

We have software like BlackBoard Collaborate. Direct from the comfort of home with all its indulgences and with head set and camera on I am in the virtual classroom in seconds, initially launched from a high speed digital enrollment interface.

Or would you perhaps go to some rock banging institution? Get showered, get dressed, get parked, get in, and then sit there for one hour whilst some muggle reads you a lecture verbatim which you could have otherwise read as a digital doc in less than 15 minutes.

Technology and Innovation? I think you all have quite some way to go yet.
Posted by DreamOn, Saturday, 18 June 2016 6:32:43 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
My sister teaches secondary maths and science. She works a 45-55 hr week (depending on time of year) to get marking and lesson/assessment prep done, including time spent at school and at home. So, multiplying the average by about 4 times 10 week terms gives about 2000 hrs.

Compare that to a 9 to 5, 38 hr week for about 47 weeks (to take into account 4 weeks leave plus public hols that fall in school hols for which teachers effectively aren't paid, eg. Xmas and Easter) giving about 1800 hrs.

The difference is the equivalent of about a month of full-time work. Teachers with a 4 yr degree and experience like her deserve what they get, IMO. She works nights and weekends, which generally isn't required of 9 to 5 workers.

There is a shortage of STEM teachers so why make it more difficult to attract them? They also have a PD requirement to remain registered. OTOH, perhaps there should be a subject supply and demand aspect to teacher salaries.

She teaches some very disrespectful, over-indulged, sassy, snotty youths, and there wouldn't be a teacher shortage in her area if this wasn't so.
Posted by Luciferase, Saturday, 18 June 2016 8:10:51 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Luce, teachers suffer from the same stereo branding as all professions/trades, they have their dedicated, hard working ones, and they have their 'the world owes me a living' lazy 'what's in it for me' types. The public service is no different, in fact, most public sectors suffer from the same problems and although it does happen in the private sector, it's not as bad.

You know when teachers are being sent back to school to learn the basics, there is a huge problem. In fact, I would bet that not all teachers know their times tables, and many more would be incapable of saying what 40% of 65 is without a calculator. There in lies the problem because you cant teach something if you don't know it yourself.
Posted by rehctub, Sunday, 19 June 2016 6:43:20 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Turning education into a blame-game is not constructive: But the role of education needs to be revisited!
Prior to the end of WW11, there was little need for further education. The reality today is little different.
A small percentage of the population, depending on your view, were motivated to matriculate. A small percentage was all that was needed to perform available roles requiring high levels of education in our society.
The vast majority simply picked up tools and went to work! Men that is!
If you think carefully on the above, it becomes a template that fits the problems of education today.
Simon Birminghamham epitomises the "problem" of education from the political view!
Posted by diver dan, Sunday, 19 June 2016 10:08:19 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Just how naïve do you think we are Simon. Don't forget mate, many of us were educated years ago, when we had teachers worth their money.

When universities are having to run remedial math classes to get B Sc. students up to a satisfactory year 10 high school business math standard your claims are nothing but a bad joke.

Hell when 17 year old kids with high achiever in year 12 math can't handle the math in a simple apprenticeship that 15 year old intermediate certificate kids did no problem 40 years ago, I wonder just how bad it has to get for people like you to acknowledge a problem.

The feminists have achieved their goal. They have dumbed down all those hard subjects, so the girls could do them. They bored the boys to death, & now we have more girls in the sciences at Uni. I'm just damn glad I won't have to drive over the bridges they design, or build. This particularly when degrees are more an attendance record today, than an indication of achievement.

Ask anyone silly enough to depend on the fiction teachers write in school reports & references today, & you will find used car salesmen are now considered more truthful.
Posted by Hasbeen, Sunday, 19 June 2016 6:00:24 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Making positive statements about School education I find difficult to swallow.

Here are many realistic arguments to why school education produces far more truck driver skilled teenagers than medical professional quality learning capable teenagers.

ABC Revolution Education 3rd programs states aged 7 year children are diagnosed with mental depression. Below website readings I strongly suggest describes how school curriculum education is traumatising children's learning behaviours.

http://www.psychforums.com/living-with-mental-illness/topic182473.html#p1893211
Posted by steve101, Tuesday, 21 June 2016 3:14:49 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy