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The Forum > Article Comments > Leaders debate misses the mark on climate > Comments

Leaders debate misses the mark on climate : Comments

By Suzanne Harter, published 31/5/2016

With both major parties talking about innovation as a major part of growing our economy, how is it possible that clean technologies were not connected to that message?

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Labors/Greens renewables targets are pointless without bringing into account the CO2 emitted in their production, in the production of their backup requirements, and in maintenance.

Sure, the fuel costs nothing, but what is the point of it all if it has no impact on global emissions. We'd simply be transferring emmisions to wherever the hardware is made.

Also, what inanity is it to try to match cheap overseas producers of the hardware at their own game. The supposed jobs bonanza in renewables touted by Labor/Greens would only be in their pointless erection.

Of course, we have to be looking like we're doing something until the penny drops and we buy in nuclear. But whether it's Direct Action (including tree-planting, FCOL!) or renewables, its all just poncing about until biting the real bullet.

http://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/current-and-future-generation/thorium.aspx
Posted by Luciferase, Monday, 6 June 2016 11:00:29 PM
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Yes Luciferase, it does seem to be a lost cause to try and reduce CO2
by building solar & wind power.
The crux of the matter is we if did not use oil or coal, solar & wind
could not build themselves.

We have built our present industrial system on the high energy density
of oil & coal.
At present we have no other similar high density energy source available.

It comes down to the ultimate question; presuming we are able to build
a complete solar/wind energy system using coal & oil then after they
are gone can it be maintained and/or be extended on solar/wind alone ?
Posted by Bazz, Tuesday, 7 June 2016 10:16:40 AM
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A very unhappy circumstance, a spike in temperature of 2C above pre Industrial levels has been seen in the Northern Hemisphere.

Quote:
" ... recent days, the temperature had reached approximately 2.5 degrees Celsius above pre-industrial levels. The graphic has been replaced with an updated version showing a less dramatic temperature spike, to approximately 2 degrees Celsius above preindustrial levels, though still exceeding 2 degrees Celsius when measured from pre-industrial levels."

http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2016/03/01/february_2016_s_shocking_global_warming_temperature_record.html
Posted by ant, Friday, 10 June 2016 8:34:32 AM
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Fair enough Ant the hottest of the hottest. Here is a challenge for you. Call up Karoly or Flannery and offer to buy their waterside properties. Let's face it we are all doomed so they will accept a packet of salted nuts for land next to the water surely.
Let me know how you go.
Posted by JBowyer, Friday, 10 June 2016 6:40:20 PM
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JBower, all you are doing is creating a diversion.
The 2C spike in temperature above pre Industrial times for the Northern Hemisphere should be a jolt; when La Nina kicks in the rise in temperature globally might be slower but continues to go up.

http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/news/20160120/gistemp_graph_2015.png

Something else to think about:

http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2016/may/30/el-nino-is-over-but-it-leaves-nearly-100-million-people-short-of-food?CMP=share_btn_tw

Also:

Since 1979 the amount of radiative forcing has been monitored, it has been worked out to be 2.974watts/square metre for 2015. The Earth’s area is 510 million square kilometres. So by multiplying 510,000,000 by 1,000 to obtain the number of square metres we derive 510,000,000,000 square metres. To obtain the number of watts involved we multiply 510,000,000,000 by 2.974 to get the number of watts created over equilibrium (1516,740,000,000 watts). The amount of energy created goes up on an annual basis by over 1%

Global temperature has continued to rise since Dru Pearce created the graphs using themperature data:

https://vimeo.com/12814116
Posted by ant, Saturday, 11 June 2016 6:40:08 AM
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My apologies the vimeo clip is wrong. The one I tried to send has Dru Pearce explaining the movement to the right of standard deviations when increase in temperature is graphed. Much more than two standard deviations; it provides information that backs the 2C spike.

Alaska is extremely warm at present.
Posted by ant, Saturday, 11 June 2016 8:09:41 AM
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