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The Forum > Article Comments > Religion's dying swan act: secularism is banishing it from the public square > Comments

Religion's dying swan act: secularism is banishing it from the public square : Comments

By Max Wallace, published 5/1/2016

Perhaps Christianity is indeed in decline. But the decline has nothing to do with assault from without, and everything to do with unbelief from within.

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Dear Pogi,

Why would you want to impose yourself on the Cosmos?

This sounds to me equally irrational!
Posted by Yuyutsu, Friday, 8 January 2016 7:17:09 AM
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It is futile and nonsensical for Christians to try and convince others of the validity of Christ or God quoting scripture that others clearly do not believe. This is just plain nonsense as it would be to try and convince others that they must believe in Chinese Communism by quoting The Communist Party of China and/or Chairman Mao's Little Red Book of 'marvellous wisdom'?! The logic of science is first I see and then I 'may' believe. The logic of Christianity turns this around to first I believe and then I progressively [it is hoped] 'may' see and grow in accepting biblical truth including that for the world to be formed and all its miraculous diversification of creatures, us included, by the chance mutation of two cells from some slime from a swamp is about as scientific as accepting that 747 aircraft could be randomly assembled via evolution from a pile of junk from a salvaged machinery junkyard! How come apes are still apes and they haven't made the 'big evolutionary leap' to become human?
Posted by Citizens Initiated Action, Friday, 8 January 2016 8:36:51 AM
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CIA
The presumption that your personal incredulity is of some significance to science reveals a conceit whose source must be irrational. No living cell suddenly announced the appearence of LIFE on Earth. Only a rudimentary knowledge of chemistry is required to understand this but obviously you are not convinced. However, it is in my nature to try to be helpful. The atomic structure of the chemical elements is such that some elements are attracted to others. Take water for example. The elements hydrogen and oxygen are naturally attracted to each other in the ratio of two atoms of hydrogen with one atom of oxygen. Thus we have H2 plus O, making H2O or di-hydrogen oxide which is the chemical name for water. The natural combination of these three atoms forms a MOLECULE of water. It is by means of the chemical molecule formed by chemical attraction that is believed by science to have been the precursor to life occurring on Earth. Whether in fresh water in lakes and ponds or in a salty water in the oceans, billions upon billions of chemical reactions occurred each day over several billion years. One or several different combinations, or molecules, developed the capability to replicate [make copies of] themselves possibly by absorbing other energy-giving molecules.

I am not a qualified scientist so if you seek more detail then my ability to provide it is highly problematic.

The correct combinations of chemicals has been a very active area of scientific research, particularly since WW2. Note, also particularly, that this science should cause your religious faith no serious concerns. If you like, it provides a scientific explanation of one of the "miracles" performed by your god. From your viewpoint, one conclusion that can be drawn from such a scenario is that your god does not expect his flock to limit their seeking knowledge of the Cosmos
Posted by Pogi, Tuesday, 12 January 2016 5:34:15 PM
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CIA
As for your remarks concerning apes......drawing on a boundless enthusiasm for the scientific method of reasoning and a numinous awe of the natural world, I have concluded that an explanation may save you frequent future embarassment.

In evolution it is not claimed that an entire genus or species evolves into a different one. One of the most important causes for evolution to take place is for the environment/climate to change and thus act upon a local population of a certain species, putting the group and each individual under stress to adapt or die . Note; only the local population that lives within the boundaries of that environmen/climate change is affected, within that population individuals adapt to the change and pass that adaptive ability on to their progeny together with any genetic changes brought about by the stress of a live-or-die situation. In every other region populated by the species in question no change is wrought.

Over geologic ages certain pockets of a species may become isolated so that interbreeding with neighbouring populations of the same species may be prevented, thus severely reducing the genetic vigour of the isolated group by reducing genetic diversity, under these more subtle stresses evolution into a new species can occur also. Isolation can occur quite suddenly through vulcanism or earthquake or by permanent flooding of valleys or alteration of river courses by other geologic upheavals like mountan range building over longer periods.

Thus it can be can be clearly apprehended that entire species do not change into a new species uniformly and at the same time.

You should also be aware that it is not claimed by the science of evolution that humans evolved from apes or monkeys. It is a shame that you feel the need to continue with this infantile creationist furfey. In holding to this notion I believe you are in a minority among your creationist bretheren.
Posted by Pogi, Tuesday, 12 January 2016 6:49:24 PM
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Pogi

you really don't know how unscientific your rant is. You seem to very confused with adaption to environment compared to crossing species. You are right that god deniers/evolutionist have been changing their narrative each time they are found out. As to your explanation on beginning please spare us such fantasy. Science requires a person to be able to reason not accept fairytales such as the big bang.
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 12 January 2016 7:03:43 PM
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Dear Pogi,
Why would you want to impose yourself on the Cosmos?
This sounds to me equally irrational!
Posted by Yuyutsu, Friday, 8 January 2016 7:17:09 AM

Dear Yuyutsu,
Thankyou for your request for clarification. I take it that you are questioning my use of the word "impose".

IMPOSE: [1] To lay on or set as something to be borne, endured, obeyed or fulfilled. [2] To subject to some penalty. [3] To obtrude oneself or one's requirements.
OBTRUDE: ......obtrusive- undesirably obvious. Thus: to impose oneself or one's requirements in an undesirably obvious manner.

I used my son's well-worn high school MacQuarie Dictionary [He's an electrical engineer now. My own Oxford Concise 1964 ed. became lost in my relocation to the Philippines in 2012.]

Not only was I employing a kind of poetic license [which I prefer to call "lexical license"] but IMHO, [3] seems to cover our all consuming propensities when invading new worlds/lands wherein we seek to live, prosper and exploit usable resources, organic and inorganic.

Far from being irrational, I see use of the word in question to be unquestionably honest and totally devoid of PC mealy-mouthed hypocrisy.
Posted by Pogi, Tuesday, 12 January 2016 7:52:48 PM
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