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The Forum > Article Comments > The eleventh video > Comments

The eleventh video : Comments

By Babette Francis, published 10/12/2015

All Australians, even those yet to be born, have a right to state protection of their human rights.

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Nothing like a gruesome video to drum up some controversy...

Just as an experiment, I think we should ban medical abortion and make women seek backyard abortions instead. And then somebody should upload some videos of that variety of gruesome footage, and we shall see how quickly people scurry back to medical abortion.

Abortion will happen whether the bible-bashers like it or not. Better it be done by doctors and nurses in a clinical environment than by some random cowboy.
Posted by Toni Lavis, Thursday, 10 December 2015 11:03:06 PM
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Well said, and so true Toni Lavis.

"I encourage other Australians who are also concerned about Australia funding abortion in developing countries to write to Mr. Morrison, Parliament House, Canberra, with copies to your local Federal MHR if he or she is in the Coalition, or to your nearest pro-life Senator."

Here is Babette up to her old tricks of spreading lies from the mad, dangerous anti-abortion folk from America. We have witnessed some of these people shooting or bombing others who don't agree with legal abortions. They are terrorists.

Why on earth would we want to discourage funding for abortions in third world countries where over-population leads to huge problems of poverty, starvation and high death rates for children under five?

Many women in those countries die, after having multiple births, of obstetric problems now almost unheard of in developed countries, but yet the many religions that these poor people blindly follow still tells them contraception and abortion are 'against God'.

It is a disgrace that bunches of so-called 'holy' men feel they have the right to tell women what they can and can't do with their bodies. It is none of their business, and indeed no one else's business except the parents and their doctor.

Don't get your hopes up that abortion will ever become illegal again Babette because that will never happen. Why not use your time promoting contraception so we don't have so many unwanted pregnancies in the first place?
Wouldn't it be wonderful if there was no need for abortions at all?
Posted by Suseonline, Friday, 11 December 2015 12:53:09 AM
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"Better it be done by doctors and nurses in a clinical environment than by some random cowboy."

So that's the only two options, Toni? No middle ground there? Either accept that we have to permit the in-vitro dismemberment of viable fetus, the snipping of spines, leaving unwanted live-births to die. That or backyard abortions. No chance to have a system that mitigates against backyard butchery without enabling clinical butchery?

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At some time after the moment the sperm enters the egg, the life attains rights, human rights. That might be at the time of conception or the time of embedding, or 9 weeks, or 20 weeks or 24 weeks, or nine months or at the time of birth or (some say) six months after birth.

Each person has to decide that for themselves and then the societal consensus has to apply. If its, say, 24 weeks, then the life form up to that point is not human and unfettered rights to abortion should apply. But after that point, the life is human and it attains the full value of being human including most importantly the right to not be killed.

It seems to me that this is unassailable, that the embryo will attain human rights at some time. Society, each society, must determine that point and then zealously protect that life from that point on.
Posted by mhaze, Friday, 11 December 2015 12:45:58 PM
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mhaze, there are very few abortions attended in this country after about 20 weeks gestation, despite what the pro-lifers lie about.

The few that are allowed are for disabled babies or for the mother's mental or physical well-being. Very often it is the father asking for termination in these cases anyway, so why not punish them as well? I am a midwife and I see first hand what happens. Do you?

In all my years as a nurse I never witnessed nor heard of anyone taking 'body parts' from aborted foetuses. This sort of rubbish has only been circulated amongst mad pro lifers in the US, and then clutched onto by the desperately gullible followers here.

If you would like to see a definite 'cut off point of 24 weeks' to allow legal abortions in this country, exactly how would you enforce that? If, for example, a woman really didn't want to carry a baby with no brain (anencephalic) to full term , only to watch it die during or shortly after birth, would you feel comfortable forcing her to do something against her will? Not every couple can handle a lifetime of caring for disabled kids.
There are enough unwanted children in this world already.

In fact, what right has anyone got to say to any woman "you will carry on with this unwanted pregnancy and birth no matter what you want"? Would you tie these women down until they give birth or what?
Posted by Suseonline, Saturday, 12 December 2015 2:00:04 AM
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Suseonline,

Statistics about abortion rates are rather equivocal in Australia so I'm reticent about being too dogmatic about what and what isn't happening, a policy I'd recommend to you.

" there are very few abortions attended in this country after about 20 weeks gestation"

Statistics are hard to come by on this so I admire your certainty. The best figures I could find were from SA which seems to be the most open about all these issues. It shows that there are about 100 late-term abortions per year. Extrapolated, that gives around 1000 in Australia per year. Whether that's "very few" is in the eye of the beholder, but I'd say its a distressingly high number. (Note that there is almost no data on post 24 week abortions since amost all statistics come from Medicare and there's no rebate for post 24 week abortions).

You might assert that taking body parts from aborted babies is a fiction "circulated amongst mad pro lifers in the US" but you'd simply be wrong/uninformed. There is no question that it happens (see the Planned Parenthood videos). The only issue is whether they are sold at a profit or not.

Re your anencephalic scenario. Well I did say that the life of the fetus should be protected "save for very stringently administered circumstances." The scenario you mentioned would be one such. By that I mean that you'd require a group of non-partisan doctors and ethicists to agree that the life could be terminated. But my point is that once the life reaches a certain point it has attained rights which are equal to those of the mother and cannot be overridden solely by the mother.

"Would you tie these women down until they give birth or what?"
No, I reserve my tying down of women for other times. (nb that was a joke, you have to be soooo careful these days!)
But if a perfectly viable life was ended after a time when it was agreed that it had attained the status of human, I'd charge the mother and any associated medical assistants with murder.
Posted by mhaze, Saturday, 12 December 2015 11:17:09 AM
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Suse,

Do you agree that there is some time when the embryo becomes human and if so what is that time - 1 week, 20 weeks, when the head is crowning? And do you agree that after that point, killing the human is killing a human? Please don't try to dodge by bringing up issues of the health or prospects of the life. Just decide at what point a healthy embryo becomes a human life.

I'll understand if you don't respond. Addressing this issue tends to limit one's options.
Posted by mhaze, Saturday, 12 December 2015 11:17:39 AM
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