The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > Article Comments > Good education and conversion > Comments

Good education and conversion : Comments

By Michael Jensen, published 11/11/2015

Should children in government schools be subjected to ideas and ideologies in such a way as they are persuaded by them?

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. Page 2
  4. 3
  5. 4
  6. All
Onthebeach: If you do teach logic and philosophy (which I actually think would be a good thing) you are still most likely going to have teachers who teach it in a way to indoctrinate the students.

For example, in the case of logic,
a)you could just just state all the facts and workings of the different logical systems (eg: classical logic versus intuitionist logic versus paraconsistent logic) without stating that any one is better than another when it comes to their differences
b) or you could have a teacher who believes that one particular logic (of the many available) is the only one by which a philosophical argument should be resolved so they present it as the only valid option with the expectation that their students will learn to esteem it likewise.

Which of these two cases is acceptable/preferred is what this article is about.

By-the-way: I can relate to this personally about maths. Contrary to what most people assume, their are quite a few different ideological approaches to the foundations and philosophical aspects of maths. These different ideologies can have very different consequences, ie: some facts (theorems) are true/valid in same versions of maths but not in others. However, almost every person who is taught maths in primary/high school is not told that there are different truths/versions available and it is presented to them as an absolute truth and a unique system-- even at uni it can still be taught like this. eg: when I did science/engineering all the maths I was taught was based on classical logic (actually, first order predicate calculus) with ZFC set theory, it was only years later that I found out about other schools of thought of maths such as those of the intuitionism.
Posted by thinkabit, Wednesday, 11 November 2015 1:12:37 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
thinkabit,

Agree.

I would still opt for logic and philosophy, as would you.

Thank you for your comments.
Posted by onthebeach, Wednesday, 11 November 2015 1:52:43 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Jensen writes a clever article, adroitly arguing that, since one kind of "proselytising" is OK, it's good for volunteers visiting from churches to do so in public schools. Trouble is, kids aren't offered a range of options from Allah to Zoroaster: if they go to "religious education" classes, they are force-fed one line. This is not education, it's indoctrination.
Posted by Asclepius, Wednesday, 11 November 2015 1:59:04 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Thinkabit and Onthebeach
The first trial and report that I saw on having all students participate in discussion of open ended questions is available at On Line Opinion at;
http://onlineopinion.com.au/documents/articles/Clackmannan.doc
NSW ethics classes are based on this study. A similar result was achieved when University of Houston, Texas, repeated the trial and achieved a similar result. A UK education authority (I think Northumberland) introduced the system but reported that, after a period of time, the students were so much time ahead of where they were expected to be.
Teachers do not under this system teach philosophy. The students learn to discuss matters in a philosophical manner by actual practice.
Posted by Foyle, Wednesday, 11 November 2015 3:28:07 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
ttbn, Rhosty, runner, Yuyutsu, onthebeach, Foyle, thinkabit & Asclepius, once upon a time in the land of OZ, education was 100% up to WHAT THE PARENTS WANTED. Schools were provided 100% by churches, Anglican children went to Anglican schools, Presbyterian children went to Presbyterian schools, Baptist children went to Baptist schools, etc, etc, etc. Ditto for colleges & universities.

Your child, you arrange for the child to be indoctrinated with your morals, ethics, principles & religion, NOT communism or some other negative, sick religion.
Posted by imacentristmoderate, Wednesday, 11 November 2015 3:29:50 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
lol^ communism is not a religion ...

... just as feminism is not an ideology or proselytising.
Posted by McReal, Wednesday, 11 November 2015 6:39:22 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. Page 2
  4. 3
  5. 4
  6. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy