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The Forum > Article Comments > Bringing Muslims back to Islam > Comments

Bringing Muslims back to Islam : Comments

By Murray Hunter, published 28/10/2015

Islam somehow lost the intellectual initiative and needs to regain its place and dignity in the world.

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...and in the stands.
Posted by WmTrevor, Friday, 30 October 2015 9:17:52 AM
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Murray Hunter is so hopelessly wrong on so many facts it is hard to know where to start deconstructing them.

To begin with Murray, the reason why western democracies allowed Muslim immigration was because of the general ignorance of Islamic scripture which proscribed assimilating with anybody, and which legitimised violence towards non Muslims in the host populations. We know better now.

Your next ludicrous point, is that somehow Islam is an example of financial success. Gee, I thought that anybody who had a TV set could quite plainly see the error of that statement. The Islamic world is hardly a success story, and what is more, the indisputable fact is that the more Islamic a nation is, the more of an economically and socially dysfunctional cesspit it is.

Islam, my dear Murray, has never been an exponent of free trade. What was the name of the skyscrapers which got knocked down on 9/11? Most of the Islamic world does not belong to the World Trade Organisation. They live in self imposed economic isolation and they are suffering terribly because of it. They resent the growing prosperity of the free trade nations while hating the very institution that enabled it. Islam was once prosperous because of it's geographical position. It blockaded and monopolised the trade routes between Europe with Africa, China and India. The first Portuguese caravel which rounded Cape Horn put an end to that cartel.

If I had to guess where you got this idea that Islam is being misrepresented, and that it somehow conforms to your socialist, humanitarian, internationalist worldview, I would say you got hold of some sort of Muslim propaganda about "Islam and commerce" and blended in your own ideology.

No matter, you have indeed done your opponents a great service. Your article is so self evidently over the top wrong, that there must be some educated young people reading your tripe who are beginning to question your ideologies fundamentals. You can't keep writing absolute nonsense and think that even ideologically conditioned intelligent young people can be True Believers forever
Posted by LEGO, Saturday, 31 October 2015 5:09:44 AM
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Very good post, Joe. Really excellent.

I hope you don't mind if I pinch some of your points?
Posted by LEGO, Saturday, 31 October 2015 5:14:45 AM
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Thanks LEGO, you do me proud. Sure.

Maybe what I'm trying to get at in my clumsy way is the distinction between:

* getting one's guidance externally, out of a book, or as one is told what to think by some charlatan, and stopping thinking ever afterwards, never doubting or criticising what one has been told,

and

* having to grapple with ideas of how best to live, and how to relate to other people, from within oneself, and with the critical guidance of discourse with one's friends - in other words, trying to work it all out for ourselves, a constant work-in-progress of doubts and conjectures throughout one's life.

Two contrasting epistemologies, I suppose. Perhaps what we are witnessing, and will witness throughout this century, is the clash between those two approaches to engaging with the world: one religious (even Utopian? Is this why the pseudo-Left sucks up to barbarism?), smug and righteous, but utterly out of touch and stunted; the other ever-doubting, ever-grappling, ever-questioning.

And since may be talking about many billions of people pursuing one course or the other, and more and more rubbing up against each other, we could be in for a bumpy ride. Buckle up !

Joe
www.firstsources.info
Posted by Loudmouth, Saturday, 31 October 2015 9:14:09 AM
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To the bigots; those on this forum who are seeking to dehumanise, stigmatise and incite violence against Muslims, this is what happens when your turgid doctrine is exposed to the light of factual evidence and reasoning:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2DZ8bbxd8U
Posted by grateful, Sunday, 1 November 2015 7:08:19 AM
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Living a sheltered life and being a bit naïve, I have assumed, when there are reports of the mass-slave-trading of Yazidi girls and women, that it was a matter of the Waffen-IS just trading the women and girls amongst themselves. But it is far wider than this: it seems that wealthy Muslims fly in (or send their servants) to Waffen-IS-held territory and buy women according to a ranking system: Saudis (being more devout) are entitled to buy more women than others, and high-ranking sheikhs and emirs more than others, and of course, they get first pick.

So there are probably Yazidi women and young girls (younger girls fetch higher prices) all over the Middle East now. And Christians too. After all, there is nothing in the Koran which forbids slavery, nor the trade in non-Muslims as slaves, since non-Muslims are not fully human. Of course, that has been the case since Muhammad's time, and trade in slaves by Muslims formed the backbone of the Atlantic Slave Trade. The slaves in Mauretania at least now have the vote, in fact they have had it ever since 2007. So the Waffen-IS are simply carrying on a long Muslim tradition.

But it's all part of their culture, so it must be all right. Therefore any attack on Muslim slavery must be racist, ay, Grateful ?

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Sunday, 1 November 2015 7:50:00 AM
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