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The Forum > Article Comments > Lessons for history from an Australian prime minister > Comments

Lessons for history from an Australian prime minister : Comments

By Peter Bowden, published 14/9/2015

This is a speculative essay. It asks why, in a modern democracy, Australia should elect a Prime Minister who is widely and internationally criticised as overly militaristic and not that caring of the welfare of its people.

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Tony stopped the boats, now he wants to stop IS.
Tony needs to have a slogan to cling to power with. He doesn't or can't deal with domestic issues. so a daily press release about stopping the boats/IS is what he needs.

A great opposition Leader and terrible PM.
Posted by Cobber the hound, Monday, 14 September 2015 10:32:46 AM
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I don't know where the idea that Abbott is aggressive comes from. The boy is a wimp, allowing cub scout Shorten and the girlies of the Opposition to lambast him with their childish drivel. He backs down at the slightest squeak from the Loony Left. He doesn't stop to think that he is losing support from conservatives. The aggressive rubbish just comes from the left, who think that they can carry on with the same mantras as they would if they were dealing with a really strong conservative - you know the drill: nasty right, sweet caring left - when they are facing a mere wisp of a man. I hope they get the reality of a real man like Scott Morrison in the near future.
Posted by ttbn, Monday, 14 September 2015 11:06:46 AM
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yep a volunteer lifesaver, giving up annual leave to serve the Indigenous and being faithful to his wife is repulsive to many regressives. They prefer the pseudo moral issues of banging on about the gw religion and flying around the globe using tax payers money to sprout the nonsense. And of course you must support gay 'marriage'unless your a woman like Gillard.
Posted by runner, Monday, 14 September 2015 11:11:14 AM
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First one needs to point out that Abbott only looks like Joseph Goebbels in this photo http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110914210421/hitlerparody/images/thumb/d/d1/SkeletorAndBormann.jpg/500px-SkeletorAndBormann.jpg and Dutton the fat SS general next to him.

But Abbott wasn't (and isn't) all there.

That the Horst Wessel song is their Love Tune is totally untrue https://youtu.be/MD6oDnm43HA . Though the Black Uniforms they so admire are real.

Certainly the ghost of Hitler approves - though giving the thumbs down to Border Force telegraphing its Blitzes beforehand - but bombing Syria shows promise https://youtu.be/cUlLLccEz3o
Posted by plantagenet, Monday, 14 September 2015 11:31:58 AM
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Runner you always have to turn any post into hate speech
Posted by Cobber the hound, Monday, 14 September 2015 11:45:47 AM
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Quite agree with former posters this essay is obviously the work of a rabid leftie. Lefties cannot tell the truth as its beyond their remit. They follow the mantra that all are oppressive of other races unless they are in the crowd of low achievers who seem to make up the bulk of this nasty aberration.
The left are the driving force behind the latest invasion of Europe by Islam. They defend and bolster this warlike ideology which has since it began in 550 AD, set out to dominate the planet and looks fair to do so unless we can get some back bone into the world leaders who cringe as soon as the media all mainly lefties start on hurling abuse and name calling.
Tony Abbott is not really right of center at all, in fact he, like Howard is damaged, being labelled misogynist has done most of it but also the horrendous attacks from the left never let up on anything done since he came to office. And the continual media harping on all they hate about him covers up the real problems from being addressed.I cant think of any other person being subjected to such a malicious campaign in living history whilst alive and serving. Beats me how so many also are too busy to see that this can only lead to more trouble and a lowering of their own lifestyle as it can be compared to Fiddling whilst Rome burns in many ways.
I hope we can get past next Saturday and the government gets a huge number of votes in Canning. It wont shut up one leftie but could strengthen the weak willies who cant see the wood for the trees in the Liberal Party. Who should start to take a long hard look at whom they allow as candidates.
Posted by MarsBarKid, Monday, 14 September 2015 11:47:19 AM
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Yes one should vote for Hastie (a Leader of Men) at the Canning by-election. Who cares about women?

A vote for Hastie will also serve as a most excellent endorsement of Abbott and Hockey, who will then forget about Canning.
Posted by plantagenet, Monday, 14 September 2015 11:55:15 AM
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“It is an area ripe for research and further debate, but at least the lessons appear to lead us toward one conclusion - that an open democracy is one guarantee against conflict. … This conclusion also draws lessons for Syria. The objective of the West has been regime change, designed to oust Bashar al Assad. The United Nations has rejected elections in Syria. But with massive international supervision and support elections would seem possible .Is it not worthy of an attempt?”

The West’s objective is flawed. Going on what has transpired in Libya and Iraq since the ousting of their respective dictators, it is idealistic, if not irrational, to assume that open democracy can be achieved successfully in Muslim-dominated countries.

As have shallow thinkers in the West, the author engages in wishful thinking by promoting the ousting of Bashar al Assad so that ‘democracy’ can be installed in Syria. By ousting Assad, they obviously believe that Shia and Sunni will abandon their persistent bitter rivalry and adopt democracy. Or even more fanciful, they believe that ISIS and similar ideologists will ditch extreme sharia law and convert to democratic rule.
Posted by Raycom, Monday, 14 September 2015 12:15:13 PM
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Oh god. It is these lefty fools, who consider themselves our elite thinkers who desperately want to put our & their own necks on the block of pacifism.

They want to bleed all over our enemies, doing nothing to defend the kindest societies the world has known.

Where oh where is a Richard the Lionheart, with his heavy sword, when you need one. Hell even a Maggie would be a big help right now.
Posted by Hasbeen, Monday, 14 September 2015 12:45:06 PM
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Just to be pedantic, MarsBar,
"....can be compared to Fiddling whilst Rome burns in many ways"

There can be no comparison as no one fiddled whilst Rome burned, nor even played the lyre.
Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 14 September 2015 12:46:02 PM
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Peter,

If you use the polemics from GetUp as references for Tony Abbott's character then use this as a base for assessing his future actions, don't be surprised if most people think that you have the IQ of a squirrel and that your article is just another fatuous polemic.

TA has by far spent more of his time doing community and charity work than any other sitting MP including the bleeding heart Greens.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Monday, 14 September 2015 2:20:00 PM
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Peter, being left wing means you look with disdain on all us ill-educated proles. We should not have the vote it should be left to little tin gods like you eh?
Well sunshine this is a democracy and nothing you wrote make me think any worse of TA and better of you.
Mate, up the medication and stay off the red cordial. Oh yes and suck it up, your labour mates are the opposition now.
Posted by JBowyer, Monday, 14 September 2015 2:23:12 PM
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Hey Everyone

OberFuhrer DUTTON made the front page of that famous American newspaper Huffington Post http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/matt-elsbury/the-brilliance-of-peter-d_b_8131202.html?ncid=edlinkauhpmg00000001

It records DUTTON's "apology" to those less fortunate than Liberal Party politicians who make $200,000/year for expanding their superannuation plans.

"It has been widely reported that Mr Dutton has apologised for the joke itself -- he didn't, which shows the skill behind the sleight-of-word here.

"[Dutton's] performance is bookended beautifully. [Dutton] opens by apologising for being unaware that a live mic was positioned behind "a private conversation", and so paints whoever listened in as an eavesdropper while still sounding contrite. Just lovely.

...But most importantly, at no point does [Dutton] apologise for the insult of "Cape York time", or for making light of the potentially devastating effect of climate change on our Pacific neighbours...."

That's what we love about Herr Abbott's military campaigns. Sorry vee mean civilian government.

Role on SAS Captain Canning. Tony was brutally miked today asking "can I feel your medals".
Posted by plantagenet, Monday, 14 September 2015 2:41:11 PM
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Plantagenet,

I see that you are still too daft to draw a distinction between people you lambast as conservatives (also wrong) and National Socialists. Must be those noxious fumes from your own dunghill that you never leave.
Posted by ttbn, Monday, 14 September 2015 3:20:19 PM
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How did we elect Abbott?

Propaganda (AKA spin), flat out deception, and limited and carefully scripted media interviews with "friendly" media was wot won it for him. (I'm alluding of course to the(in)famous Sun headline in the UK after the 1999 elections - the Murdoch press has a habit of deciding who will be Prime Minister in more than one country over many decades)

Do a google image search of "anti labor front pages Australia"
and compare to the images when you search "anti coalition front pages Australia". If that isn't evidence of good old propaganda I don't know what is.

The last election was all about voting out Labor, all Mr Abbott had to do was to stick to his 3 word phrases, and spruik policies he had no intention of keeping eg funding for Gonski (remember that "unity ticket" he had with labor?), NDIS, funding for pensions, funding for the ABC and SBS. It was never about voting FOR him (he has never been popular with the general public).

The Coalition's aim last election was to keep Tony Abbott on message, limit his media exposure, and to on no account tell the public what they had planned for their first budget.

Only the most naive could have believed Abbott's promises, and yet supposedly hard-nosed, experienced journalists and commentators fell for them hook line and sinker. Since when has a Liberal government invested in public anything? Health, Education, Transport, Social Services? It is an anathema to them and their neo-liberal, privatisation, user pays agenda.

For those interested in finding out more about the pervasive use of propaganda, these days known as PR, check out Edward Bernays and Walter Lippmann - makes for interesting reading.
Posted by BJelly, Monday, 14 September 2015 3:56:21 PM
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NEWS FLASH

Turnbull is challenging for the leadership

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-14/malcolm-turnbull-julie-bishop-liberal-leadership-ballot-blog/6774546

WOO-HOO :)
Posted by plantagenet, Monday, 14 September 2015 4:39:30 PM
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Bye bye to a shocker of a PM.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Monday, 14 September 2015 5:21:19 PM
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"We" didn't actually elect Abbott BJelly as I'm sure you know; his electorate did. However, perhaps we should ALL be electing the PM to see if were get people better than we have had. I think it's pretty stupid also not having a selection of several candidates for all seats before electing one of them. Anything preselected by the parties is always going to be a dropkick.

plantagenet,

Don't get too excited. We might actually get Tunbull, then you'll be able to say nice things about a Labor government next year.
Posted by ttbn, Monday, 14 September 2015 5:56:30 PM
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There once was a PM named Abbott
A man with some very bad habits
Whose election proved a disaster
A second term he couldn't master.

YAHOO!
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 14 September 2015 6:05:32 PM
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If they are stupid enough to make Turnbull leader, that is the end of the liberal party. No party can survive with a turncoat as leader.

When they do knock down this challenge, it will be time to kick Turnbull out once & for all.

I for one, & I have a lot of mates, will never again vote for a party with this bit of garbage a member.
Posted by Hasbeen, Monday, 14 September 2015 6:08:20 PM
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"Conservatives are combative."

or from another perspective it could be that conservatives are more inclined to be upfront about what they think and do rather than what seems to be a left trait of claiming a whole bunch of things about what they are doing and actually doing something quite different.

Reality is both are stereotypes more honoured in the breach and the authors comment is more a reflection of the authors biases than an an objective assessment of political players.

The bigger problem is that it seems that the characteristics it takes to get and hold political power are not ones generally tied to genuine concern for the well being of others regardless of the mantras tied to the particular political ideology.

R0ber
Posted by R0bert, Monday, 14 September 2015 8:11:07 PM
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What Hasbeen said is probably true, and because of that, we can be pretty sure that a Labor government will be in power after the election next year. Not that it will be that different from a Turnbull government: Turnbull's first choice was Labor; they didn't want him.

Turnbull is a lowlife, even for a politician. Up will go the silly CO2 promises to equal those of the madman, Shorten. Up will go the number of country-shopping illegals and sleepers readying themselves for the caliphate. Up will go the foreign aid and welfare. Up will go everything that will give power to the most cynical, self-serving man to ever enter politics. Liberal, Labor, whatever, Australia is stuffed.
Posted by ttbn, Monday, 14 September 2015 8:36:02 PM
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Lol! Look at all the Lib supporters preparing to jump ship as their beloved party slowly implodes.
The same thing is happening in the Liberal party that happened with labor, and I well remember the roasting the Lib supporters on this forum gave others at the 'knifing' of the Labor PM.

Here we go again...Turnbull surely couldn't do any worse than the holy Abbott.
Posted by Suseonline, Monday, 14 September 2015 8:52:41 PM
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Whilst I agree with the sentiments of the author, his facts concerning the lead up to World War 1 are in error. The Chancellor of Germany in 1914 was not Otto Von Bismark, in fact, Bismark did his best to avoid a general european war. He was replaced in 1909 by Bethmann Hollweg. If you are going to quote history, get the facts right first.
Posted by darthseditious, Monday, 14 September 2015 9:11:15 PM
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I suppose it is the knifing season. First Milne got the boot, then Abbott. It is a pity as he was by far the best PM in 8 years.

The only good part is that the entire labor union machine has been tearing down Abbott for 6 years and pumping up Turnbull, and now they have pinhead as an opposition leader.

I can see Shorten getting knifed before the next election especially after TURC names him as a crook unless Turnbull goes early for a DD.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Monday, 14 September 2015 10:25:11 PM
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Turnbull has form in opposing climate change and supporting Australia becoming a republic.

However, he is also a fabulously wealthy career politician with an impeccable haircut and expensive suits. Hang on ... this reminds me of something. Oh, yes! Tony Blair circa 1997.

I'm happy for the odious Abbott to depart centre stage, but as for anything much else changing, I won't hold my breath.
Posted by Killarney, Monday, 14 September 2015 11:09:16 PM
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I am happy to see Turnbull as PM.....YAY!

His speech tonight was wonderfully eloquent, and I will not feel embarrassed listening to Abbott trying to give speeches while umming and ahhing on the international stage again.

Abbott has had a lesson in history...listen to the people, not himself.
I wish him luck in his next life.
Posted by Suseonline, Monday, 14 September 2015 11:21:16 PM
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Dear Suse,

I also watched Mr Turnbull's speech and that
of Julie Bishop. I loved the fact that they
referred to Sir Robert Menzies - and wanting
to go back to the ideals that Sir Robert stood
for. That gave me hope. Overall - I could not
help but notice already the big difference
in Mr Turnbull's attitude - one of hope and excitement in
Australia's future as compared to the dim and
dark fear-mongering of Mr Abbott.
Quite a contrast.

I wish Mr Abbott and his family well.
But I am relieved that he's no longer our PM.
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 14 September 2015 11:28:01 PM
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Yes Foxy, you and I have discussed this possibility many times on this forum, so I really think we must have had some ESP, don't you? I am delighted.
Even Julie Bishop couldn't stop smiling, and she doesn't smile easily : )
Posted by Suseonline, Monday, 14 September 2015 11:42:37 PM
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Suse and Foxy

Julie Bishop is an unashamed pro-Israel, pro-Palestinian occupation supporter. She also blatantly supports bombing recalcitrant countries into regime change.

If she was smiling during her photo-ops, it may well be because she knows that Turnbull will pose no threat whatsoever to her steadfast belief that Australian foreign policy is all about destroying countries into complying with the Washington consensus.
Posted by Killarney, Tuesday, 15 September 2015 12:38:11 AM
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Dear Shadow Minister,

You wrote;

“I suppose it is the knifing season. First Milne got the boot, then Abbott. It is a pity as he was by far the best PM in 8 years.”

No he very patently was not.

The polls clearly showed those who voted him in had deserted him now his own party passed its collective judgement and have done the same. Why?Because he has been the worst prime minister in living memory.

Keep in mind he had already faced sacking 6 bloody months ago. We knew how bad he was off the bat, it just took your lot a little longer to recognise it.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Tuesday, 15 September 2015 12:55:33 AM
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Foxy

'I wish Mr Abbott and his family well.'

That's not necessary. When Abbott retires from parliament, he will have a taxpayer-funded pension of $250,000+ per year over and above his ridiculously generous tax-payer funded superannuation.

He will be able to take his pick from numerous and lucrative offers to sit on the boards of various multi-national corporations and, if that doesn't suit him, take up a cushy job in some UN council for the rights of something or other, or the international diplomatic service (Ambassador to the Vatican?).

He'll be fine. Don't you worry.
Posted by Killarney, Tuesday, 15 September 2015 12:59:14 AM
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Killarney, I imagine Abbott will be as well taken care of in post PM life as all the other ex-PM's, and I say good luck to him.

Your negative views on Turnbull won't sway me from being just so delighted that Abbott has gone. I have never been a fan of Julie Bishop, but I am hoping that with Abbott gone we may get more quality female pollies to even things up a bit.
Posted by Suseonline, Tuesday, 15 September 2015 1:24:51 AM
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Suseonline

To quote the ABC: ‘Mr Turnbull said he would lead a "thoroughly Liberal government" committed to freedom, the individual and the market.’

OH-MY-GOD! Haven’t we heard this all before? For the last thirty years?

And look where all that freedom, the individual and the market has put us? We now have a global financial mess of monumental proportions and perpetual war. Virtually every country in the Western world is now embroiled with a gross national debt, private sector debt and household debt that is impossible to pay off. And we have lost track of the number of countries we are now at war with.

If he appoints more women to his cabinet to achieve his freedom, individual and market ambitions, well YAY! for feminism.

For now, I will reserve my delight in Abbott’s fall until there is a worthy successor to replace him. Turnbull is not that successor. Until we can come up with an antipodean equivalent to Jeremy Corbyn, or to a lesser extent, Bernie Sanders or Ron Paul, it will be just ‘screw the poor, bomb the rest’ business as usual.

Australia has always lagged about two years behind the rest of the West in getting with the times. Watch this space in 2017.
Posted by Killarney, Tuesday, 15 September 2015 4:01:40 AM
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I have never experienced schadenfreude and most likely never will.

The Liberals' treatment of Abbott was shabby and unnecessary. What leader or manager would not have some sympathy with Jeff Kennett's view that the Australian public was tired of "personal self-interest overriding national interest" and "The opportunity was there for the party to come together as a team, to march into Canning as a team".

I didn't support Gillard who white-anted and then knifed Rudd, or Rudd when he undermined and knifed Gillard in return.

Five PMs in short order is not a record Australia should be proud of.

Nor should the taxpayer-funded national broadcaster be proud of its tabloid 'Got Ya' journalism and its informal editorial policy that puts 'Progressive' populism ahead of rigorous independence and factual reporting.
Posted by onthebeach, Tuesday, 15 September 2015 8:14:28 AM
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I agree with the consensus that Mr Abbott has been
the worst Prime Minister this country has ever had
and hopefully the man will now retire from politics
altogether and not cause any further
problems for the Liberal Party. However he's a vindictive
fighter and I suspect a sore loser -
and deep down I don't believe that he'll go
quietly with any sort of grace or dignity. Hopefully I
shall be proven wrong.

As for Jeff Kennett's comments. They're to be expected.
He as Premier was a disaster
for Victoria. He wrecked so many lives - especially those
of the handicapped and then he's got the nerve to start
up "Beyond Blue," for people suffering from depression -
when he was the cause of depression and mental illness in
so many people in the state. Mr Kennett's firm belief in
the hierarchical structure, in no toleration of any dissent,
in complete obedience to the rules no matter what - stems from
his army background and explains his anti Turnbull speech
last night. Kennett is a n ignorant man who should simply
be ignored.

For the first time in years I now am looking forward to
the future under Mr Turnbull's leadership of the Liberal
Party.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 15 September 2015 10:31:12 AM
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A great day dawns Foxy, SteeleRedux and Suse

That Turnbull was magnanimous in the hour of Abbott's pathetic, richly deserved, failure is a testament to Turnbull's natural integrity as a man.

Abbott, with his use of force and warlike ways, was depraved.
________________________________________________________________

ttbn

Do you need a hanky mate :)

Poida
Posted by plantagenet, Tuesday, 15 September 2015 11:42:55 AM
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I agree with the general consensus that KRudd and Juliar were the worst PMs the country has ever seen. Tony Abbott achieved more in one year than those two clowns did in 6.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Tuesday, 15 September 2015 12:58:32 PM
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No. That is wrong.

The amount of bills that Julia Gillard was able to
pass during her time in office despite having a
minority government and other problems to deal
with puts Mr Abbott to shame.

Nicholas Stuart of the Brisbane Times points out
that - Mr Abbott's problem
of 3 word slogans were never going to be enough.
The problem was always going to be in the policy
detail and working out what should come next.

The country's verging on recession and there was no
one to inspire us that the future will be better.
"Trust Me" - uninformed belief is simple dogma
and simply insisting you are correct was no longer
enough. You actually need to convince voters
that you have a plan as well as the capacity to
implement it.

The lack of this led to the monotonous ghastly polls
spelling the death knell of Mr Abbott's leadership.

We can only hope that Mr Turnbull will have learned from
the Abbott experience and will not repeat the same
mistakes.

The following website by Nicholas Stuart in the
Brisbane Times is worth a read:

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/comment/the-elements-that-make-tony-abbotts-departure-inevitable-have-fallen-into-place-20150914-gjm2id.html
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 15 September 2015 1:28:24 PM
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Foxy, I would be delighted if you could point to one new bill that Juliar passed that benefitted the economy one jot. Instead we got a government captive to the greens passing 18000 new regulations that added nothing to the economy, and gave businesses and bureaucrats endless paperwork to fill out to satisfy greens dogma, while withholding approval to almost every new mining or development expansion.

If you could show me one promise that Juliar kept or anything she did to benefit the economy I will be surprised, let alone enough to compensate for the damage she did.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Tuesday, 15 September 2015 4:00:48 PM
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Foxy and Suseonline obviously have forgotten how badly Turnbull performed when he was Opposition leader. For confirmation, look up the poll results for that era – they were significantly worse than Abbott’s. Turnbull, who sounded out becoming a Labor MP, always has appealed more to non-Coalition voters.

Turnbull already has shown how two-faced, if not hypocritical, he can be. On Monday he fiercely derided Tony Abbott for his parliamentary performance. With the body of the former PM still warm after being knifed in the back, Turnbull yesterday in Parliament warmly praised Abbott for his parliamentary achievements in the past five years.

I remain to be convinced that Turnbull will do a better job than Abbott
Posted by Raycom, Wednesday, 16 September 2015 11:28:02 AM
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Men like Peter Bowden, choose to whitewash the facts to make them conform to their peculiar and demonstrably failed socialist worldview.

Memo to Peter, the Australian public does not directly elect it's Prime Minister's. Which is a pity. But we can indirectly vote for them at election time when we accept the decisions of their respective political parties, and vote for whomsoever their political parties have decided to be their leader. That is why we get incensed when those same parties knife their own leaders in the back.

Hitler, Galtieri, and Saddam Hussein all started wars because they thought that the western world was all full of wimps like you, who would let them get away with aggression that threatened world peace. Unless you display to such people that you will fight if they invade other people's countries, you are simply encouraging other tin pot dictators to act the same way. I would have thought that even a socialist could figure that out.

Why should Tony Abbott apologise over what your comrades Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard authorised? Indonesia is committing acts of aggression against Australia by allowing Muslims to colonise Australia for Islam, by aiding and abetting country shopping mostly Muslim economic migrants to use Indonesia as a base to violate our immigration laws. And allowing Indonesian ships crewed by Indonesians to do it.

You laughingly claim that "conservatives" are warmongers. Ever heard of Joseph Stalin? And yes, Adolph Hitler was a socialist. He hated the very idea of democracy. Socialists are like Muslims, there are many different brands and they all hate democracy and each other. Please note that no democracy has ever gone to war with a democracy. If you do not want wars, support democracy. The more democracy the better.

IS has declared war on the whole non Muslim world, and is even destroying some of the world's most revered archaeological sites to drive that point home. That includes you, Peter. You are going to look funny without a head, unless you figure out who your real enemies are.
Posted by LEGO, Thursday, 17 September 2015 4:25:53 AM
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Foxy Jeff Kennett was a fine Premier of Victoria. He came in to a disaster so bad it beggared belief. He fixed the problems got the State on track again and actually had savings in the bank.
He was usurped by liars claiming to be "Independant". His success was and is evident by the hatred you harbour to him.
Regarding mental health issues the left wanted all the care out of big institutions as they did across the Western World but Jeff did it.
I agree that was a mistake but the Public service/servants seem to be incapable of running the proverbial party in a brewery so it was a failure.
That still needs to be addressed.
Posted by JBowyer, Thursday, 17 September 2015 7:32:49 AM
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Dear JBower,

We're going to have to agree to disagree on
Mr Jeff Kennett's seven year reign as
Premier of Victoria in the 1990s. I lived
through that period and for most of us the man
was a disaster as Premier.

He privatised the
state assets, closed schools, sacked public
servants, gave us the "Grand-Prix," which
cost a fortune and ran at a great loss. He
initiated "jobs for the boys," by appointing
his mates as CEOs of regional Libraries at
grand salaries (they knew nothing about
libraries) while Chief librarians did the real work,
he shut down regional and outer Melbourne railways
(some of these critical rail-lines are being
re-built at considerable cost today), he closed and
sold mental institutions around Victoria, forcing
the disabled people to fend for themselves in suburbia,
and sold off those properties for residential
development.

In all - over 300 public schools were closed, 9000
teachers and school staff were sacked, 3500 nurses
were sacked, 17 hospitals were closed, 45,000
public servants were sacked, unemployment peaked at
12.3 per cent, and state taxes ended up being
second highest in Australia.

Yes, Mr Kennett got the state moving again, but not in
a direction that Victorians could be proud of. You need to
talk to people that were personally affected by his decisions
and are still paying the price today.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 17 September 2015 10:53:22 AM
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Foxy,

"In office, Kennett immediately instituted a budget-cutting and privatisation program in an effort to improve the State's economy. Having assumed office, the need for such action was self-justified when Kennett and his new Treasurer, Alan Stockdale discovered that the outgoing government had left them with $2.2 billion budget deficit, a net public sector debt of $33 billion and budget sector debt of $16 billion. To resolve this debt, some 50,000 public servants were retrenched between 1992 and 1995."

So if you want to blame anyone, the fiscal incompetence of the previous 11 years of Labor should high on the list.

Kennett was acclaimed for drastically reducing the debt, boosting the economy and building necessary infra structure with an ambitious capitalization programme.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Thursday, 17 September 2015 2:49:28 PM
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Dear Shadow Minister,

Mr Kennett's atrocious record speaks for itself.
And as I stated earlier - I lived during that
disastrous period. Jeff Kennett, is a man of
average intelligence. A man of limited education
and experience - with a very narrow vision.
A man who should never have been given a leadership
position in a state government. He possibly would have done
less harm had he stayed in the army - where he undoubtedly
belonged.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 17 September 2015 5:43:31 PM
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Foxy,

Kennett's stellar record speaks for itself, and the acclaim that he gets is well justified.

Labor governments are great until they run out of other people's money to spend, and the corrective action to clean up are never popular.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Friday, 18 September 2015 7:13:53 AM
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SM,

“I suppose it is the knifing season. First Milne got the boot, then Abbott. It is a pity as he was by far the best PM in 8 years.”

Best at what?

At producing at least one debacle a week, perhaps?

If you're interested, here's a comprehensive blow-by-blow run down of the machinations that led to Abbott's demise.

http://www.afr.com/news/politics/ambush-the-faceless-men-who-stalked-abbott-and-made-turnbull-king-20150916-gjoj7h

And just out of interest, SM - talking about the bestest PM in 8 years.

Talking of the mettle of a man who having reached a political pinnacle and who finds himself in a less than salubrious position of being dumped from that role. How should we expect such a man to handle a situation like that?

Do we expect him to squib a concession speech on the night of his defeat?

Do we expect a Prime Minister of Australia to offer his resignation to the Governor General "by fax"?

Do we expect him to absent himself from parliament in the days following his defeat - and then to announce he will not take his seat in parliament until the following sitting?

Who does that?

Where is the honour?

Notwithstanding, it's hard not to have some sympathy for the position in which he finds himself which, I imagine to a character like Abbott, would be crushing, yet his reactions since his demise in the top job have only reinforced and confirmed the perception that his man was not up to the role of Prime Minister.
Posted by Poirot, Friday, 18 September 2015 7:57:01 AM
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Poirot,

How easily you forget the rolling weekly disasters that was the Krudd Juliar governments.

At least Abbott has a long list of achievements, something missing from the last Labor governments.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Friday, 18 September 2015 12:15:01 PM
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Dear Shadow Minister,

You need to wake up to reality.

Perhaps the following website might help you
with the facts as most voters see them:

http://newmatilda.com/2015/09/15/we-say-good-riddance-tony-abbott-there-much-celebrate

We're told that:

Mr Abbottt's entire Prime Ministership was based on
a lie. His Prime Ministership was simply a failure.
He turned out to be a deeply flawed political leader
as most who followed his career had always suspected.
He squandered political capital like almost no other
Prime Minister in modern Australian history
- not even Kevin Rudd or Julia Gillard,
and that's saying something.

He's been living on borrowed time ever since the spill
against him in February revealed the scale of backbench
dissatisfaction with his leadership.

However read on the website explains things very clearly.
Although I suspect I am wasting my time giving you something
from New Matilda and not the Murdoch Press.

Still one has to try.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 18 September 2015 1:56:52 PM
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Yup...sure he does, SM.

Seems his office was a class act as well...

"One of the first words Malcolm Turnbull heard after being named Australia's 29th Prime Minister on Monday night was a four-letter expletive, not fit for publication, hurled by one of Tony Abbott's junior staffers.

The story of Richard Dowdy's spill night insult has already become legend in Coalition staffer circles."

"One Liberal source recounted the incident.

"He said, 'Malcolm, Malcolm, Malcolm,' and then Malcolm turned around and he yelled 'you're a c---'."

The incident occurred late on Monday night after Mr Turnbull left the Blue Room in Parliament's Ministerial wing having delivered his first media conference as Prime Minister designate.

The newly minted prime minister was being accompanied by his wife Lucy and Deputy Liberal Leader Julie Bishop. Mr Dowdy was said to be in the cabinet anteroom when he approached the passing Prime Minister to dispatch the insult."

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tony-abbott-staffer-welcomes-new-prime-minister-malcolm-turnbull-with-a-fourletter-expletive-20150918-gjpn7p.html#ixzz3m3mQIS1t

For all the strutting and lording about - it seems the born to rulers aren't such a class act after all:

"On the night after the Malcolm Turnbull v Tony Abbott leadership spill, a Young Liberal meeting in Sydney erupted into wild scenes, with allegations a member of the Abbott-backing conservative faction physically assaulted a Turnbull-supporting moderate.

An official complaint was lodged with the NSW Liberal Party on Thursday morning, following the event at the City Tattersalls Club on Pitt Street on Tuesday. A spokeswoman for state director Tony Nutt said: "Sorry, we won't be saying anything."

Almost 100 people are said to have witnessed the altercation as the factions divided in support of the contenders in Canberra.
Advertisement

Fairfax Media has learned that James Camilleri, a member of the moderates, has claimed the hard-right's Jakov "Jay" Miljak grappled with him after a fiery debate over female quotas in the party.

The temperature in the room had already risen to boiling point as conservatives argued against a motion congratulating Mr Turnbull on becoming the new Prime Minister."

Etc....

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/young-liberals-meeting-boils-over-as-verbal-clashes-turn-physical-on-night-of-leadership-spill-20150917-gjotc7.html#ixzz3m3qf7Eup
Posted by Poirot, Friday, 18 September 2015 2:30:20 PM
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Foxy,

I'm amused that you think NM in any way resembles reality.

I see that you still can't name any of Juliar's achievements.

I see a CFMEU /labor official has been exposed at TURC at having extorted about $150 000 of work on his luxury mansion, and that Labor MPs are being caught out with undeclared union donations.

Looks like the Born to steal are too stupid not to get caught.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Friday, 18 September 2015 3:54:12 PM
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Dear Shadow Minister,

Your prefer your news from News Limited -
where the news is limited. I get it.
We've been over this many times on the forum.
As for Julia Gillard's achievements - Nah, I
won't be bothered wasting my time with listing
her achievements - we've covered this many times
in the past - and you can Google them for yourself.
Why should I give you a further platform. You're
someone who still refers to her as "Juliar." (Nice).
She will never be given a fair-go by you. You prefer
a thoroughly incompetent political leader like Mr
Abbott - well guess what? Even his own party
doesn't and he's been rightly kicked out. Whoopee!

As Tony Windsor made quite clear - Mr Abbott begged and
pleaded -
for the job of Prime Minister - and promised "whatever
it took," to get Mr Windsor's support (short of selling
his bum - but even that would have been available
I'm sure). But as Windsor and Oakshott saw - the man
was simply not up to the job.

They were proven right.
You don't see it - nor ever will -
we get it!
It's your loss!
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 18 September 2015 4:29:40 PM
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Foxy,

You still prefer the left whinge blogs where the news is non existent. I assume your inability to give any Juliar achievements as acceptance that Juliar was the worst PM in history. She never passed a single useful piece of legislation. Her support of Labor criminals and vast incompetence lead to the lowest polling in labor history, and acceptance of labor as the benchmark of corruption.

Tony Windsor is still trying to justify the selling of his electorate to Juliar, even now that he is less popular than dog feces in his electorate.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Friday, 18 September 2015 6:33:51 PM
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Dear Shadow Minister,

You go right on singing from the same song book
old chap. The rest of Australia will simply get
on with the direction that we want to see
this country go in and with a government that
gives us stability. A government we can trust.
You can try to detract from the fact that not
only Australian voters, but the scale of the
backbench's dissatisfaction with Mr Abbott's
leadership within his own party was substantial.
Mr Abbott - was a failure as Prime Minister.
He simply turned out to be a deeply flawed
political leader.

As for Tony Windsor? I have family living in his
electorate and what you're claiming is as always,
simply not true.
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 19 September 2015 7:04:40 AM
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Waffle on, SM....no matter how you spin it, Abbott was a dismal failure in almost every aspect.

(I note Mr Loyalty decided in the dying hours of his tenure to throw Hockey under a bus in an attempt to lure Morrison to campaign for him)

Foxy,

Here's a blunt and comprehensive.summation of the draw out debacle that was the Abbott govt:

http://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/2015/09/19/kicking-the-abbott/14425848002386

"It is no exaggeration to say Tony Abbott is the worst prime minister Australia has had. To the extent that his brief and destructive leadership of the country is remembered, it will not be remembered well.

Abbott is a prime minister without a legacy. In attempting to defend one this week, he came up with not much: some jobs, a few trade agreements, an infrastructure project, a border protection regime founded on human rights abuses, a royal commission so compromised by bias its own commissioner had to consider removing himself.

Abbott governed for the past and the few conservatives desperate to continue living there. He governed against science and in contempt of the environment. He governed in opposition to social equality, in terror of reform. His was a government of fear and avoidance, a rolling sideshow anxiously avoiding the fact it had nothing to add and no idea what to do."

"Abbott spent his time in opposition degrading the office of the prime minister. His was a campaign of debasement: a coarsening of debate, a running down of the respect once stored in the institution. Those who say he was a fine opposition leader do so in error. There is no victory in destroying what you set out to win.

On prevailing at the 2013 election, he placed on his head a small and tinny crown. He did nothing to repair it in the years that have passed since. Indeed, he added only to its dents and tarnish."

Read on...
Posted by Poirot, Saturday, 19 September 2015 1:38:27 PM
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Dear Poirot,

Thanks for that.

I am looking forward to the future for a change now
under the New Prime Minister.

It certainly has to be better than what we've had to put up
with in the past couple of years.
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 19 September 2015 3:43:48 PM
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Poirot,

I see that you too are now quoting these one dimensional blogs written "badly" by unemployable recent graduates. The "Saturday paper" has essentially one news "reporter" who picks a subject at random on which he knows zip and regurgitates the same political drivel.

If Abbott was bad, KRudd and Juliar were far worse, and each after a fantastic start stuffed up so badly that they had to be removed. Getting the lowest poll result in Labor history is the only real achievement of the weasel Gillard.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Sunday, 20 September 2015 5:32:09 PM
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"I see that you too are now quoting these one dimensional blogs written "badly" by unemployable recent graduates. The "Saturday paper" has essentially one news "reporter" who picks a subject at random on which he knows zip and regurgitates the same political drivel."

Oh, well done, SM...you're so lightweight these days.

Would you like something from the Daily Telecrap instead?

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/tony-abbott-goes-topless-at-wild-farewell-party-after-being-ousted-by-new-pm-malcolm-turnbull/story-fni0cx12-1227535045623

I think that's now paywalled (although you probably have a subscription) But just in case you don't - here's the class of your hero Tony Abbott and his office colleagues.

"A TOPLESS Tony Abbott celebrated his freedom on the night of the leadership coup by dancing with his shirt off at a wild party in the Prime Minister’s suite.

Party goers have confirmed that the former Prime Minister partied on until the small hours of Tuesday morning and was still firing off text messages at 4:30am"

"The wild party in the Prime Minister’s suite included a marble coffee table getting smashed and staffers souveniring shards of marble for the history books."

Mr Abbott had declined to hold a press conference on the night he was rolled by Malcolm Turnbull, instead heading straight to the bar with his loyal staffers."

Oh and...

"Several senior Liberal MPs also claimed a minister The Sunday Telegraph has chosen not to name had “spewed” in the ministerial wing."

Turnbull has just turned everything inside out in a reshuffle - Joe Hockey is leaving politics, hopefully followed by Tony.

What a bloody wreck was the Abbott administration - and we note that you reckon it was just the ant's pants.

Lol!
Posted by Poirot, Sunday, 20 September 2015 5:48:13 PM
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Here's something from a recognized journalist, not the pinheads you quote:

Tony Abbott was clearly the best of the past four prime ministers — eclipsing Kevin Rudd, Julia Gillard and Rudd redux — yet he, too, was cut down by his own party. Abbott was, to some extent, the master of his own demise, but his failure to reach two years in the role raises questions about a rapidly mutating political culture. A politician who constantly proved his critics wrong, he probably would have done so again at next year’s election, which helps explain the vitriol directed at him. Strangely enough, Abbott was the victim of his successes as well as his failings. And, in a final perversion, his greatest beneficiary is Malcolm Turnbull.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Sunday, 20 September 2015 5:57:59 PM
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SM,

Do us the honour of naming your source....what sort of immature poster are you?

Who is it - Devine, Chris Kenny...Bolt? (None of whom could be referred to with a straight face as "journalists")

"Here's something from a recognized journalist, not the pinheads you quote:

Tony Abbott was clearly the best of the past four prime ministers — eclipsing Kevin Rudd, Julia Gillard and Rudd redux — yet he, too, was cut down by his own party. Abbott was, to some extent, the master of his own demise, but his failure to reach two years in the role raises questions about a rapidly mutating political culture. A politician who constantly proved his critics wrong, he probably would have done so again at next year’s election, which helps explain the vitriol directed at him. Strangely enough, Abbott was the victim of his successes as well as his failings. And, in a final perversion, his greatest beneficiary is Malcolm Turnbull."

ROFL!
Posted by Poirot, Sunday, 20 September 2015 6:16:20 PM
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Parrot,

Anyone that talks about the daily "telecrap" has forfeited any right to judge maturity.

Secondly Learn to use google it's not that hard. It's Chris Kenny, deputy editor at a real paper and ex Turnbull staffer, so he has in depth knowledge of what he is talking about. Completely the opposite of the idiots you quote.

Here is more of that article.

"Abbott not only led the Coalition into power, his fortitude and resolve delivered some of its most difficult policy victories. Against the will and expectations of the media/political class, he stopped the boats, restored the integrity of the immigration system and eliminated a vainglorious and economically damaging carbon tax. Perhaps no other Liberal would have had the mettle to do this.

These breakthroughs have been enormously beneficial for the nation, underpinning economic prosperity by protecting our international competitiveness and restoring public faith in our immigration program. Yet not only did Abbott fail to receive appropriate plaudits, his success attracted further opprobrium.

Abbott had antagonised the media/political class by proving them wrong; so he had to be punished. They said he was unelec­table; his was a record landslide. They said he would never stop the boats; it took him four months. They said he would trigger conflict with Indonesia; he weathered a spying storm that Labor created, resistance to boat turnbacks, a new president, protests over executions and still smoothed over the relationship. They said Australia would be left behind on carbon pricing; they were wrong on that, too.

Every day Abbott was successful was another day the press gallery, the ABC, academe and the commentariat were confronted by their poor misjudgments. Little wonder they wanted him gone."
Posted by Shadow Minister, Monday, 21 September 2015 4:18:44 AM
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SM,

Anyone who refers to Chris Kenny - and yes, I presumed it was probably he - as "having a depth of knowledge and knows what he's talking about" deserves to have me go ROFL!

He makes me ROFL each day on twitter, and provides much merriment as he is shot down daily there. As a political commentator, he's an immature pixie who tweets rubbish. His "articles" are little different.

What's the use of prattling on about how well Abbott won the last election? Leaving aside his constant debacles, his ridiculous flag-waving and uniform draping, his vacuous and cringe-worthy rhetoric, he sailed in on 95% lies - that's the kind thing that infuriates the electorate - just like it did with that other arch liar, Campbell Newman.

Journalist, Andrew Probyn recounted being on a plane back to the West when the spill was happening. The captain put an announcement through that Turnbull had won the spill - apparently cheers erupted through the plane "from economy to business class".

That's why Abbott was booted - he was universally despised. His own party knew that...something you and dipstick Kenny can't see.

Btw, the way, it's common courtesy and proper practice to name or link to your quotes (you went to uni - didn't they teach you to reference?) You don't tell people to google.

Always fun to watch you pull out "Parrot" - I know you're on the ropes : )
Posted by Poirot, Monday, 21 September 2015 8:05:25 AM
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Dear Poirot,

Shadow Minister is out of his depth well and truly.
Especially when -
he still persists in referring to our former Prime
Minister as "Juliar." Therefore to use his own
logic - anyone that refers to a former PM in such
terms has indeed forfeited any right to judge
another Prime Minister with maturity.
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 21 September 2015 4:20:20 PM
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Parrot,

It is just that type of left whinge idiotic sneering that makes you look so stupid, especially when you cock it up so badly.

CK was an award winning journalist and author before moving into politics where he held several high ranking positions incl chief of staff to Malcolm Turnbull. After leaving politics he has continued in journalism as deputy editor for the Australian, and as a television reporter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Kenny_(journalist)

So when the cards are down, there are very few political journalists with CK's talent and relevant experience. Yet you sneer at him whilst happily quoting from journalist incompetents such Chris Wallace whose political experience is non existent, and journalist experience is feeble.

I also remember CK making several calls on Juliar's boat policy with regards numbers and deaths at sea that Labor rubbished, but all came true. So sneer all you want, but don't quote idiotic blogs and expect to be taken seriously.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Monday, 21 September 2015 5:46:43 PM
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Sorry, SM...but poor old Chris is so partisan and rabidly right wing that....well...he's just like you - and we all know how powerful your commentary is.

There's nothing impressive about his writing at all...nothing.

It's stock standard right wing guff - unimaginative and lacking any stand out ability.

I can see why you're impressed.

But you should be singing from the rooftops.

Malcolm's ascendancy has caused an impressive poll bounce - 12 up points in the Morgan and Labor is 12 points down (two party preferred)

While one doesn't expect the figures to stay quite that healthy, it's a change from L/NP polls under Abbott which were bogged down around 8-10 points short of Labor.
Posted by Poirot, Monday, 21 September 2015 6:24:39 PM
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CK is right of center, but has the journalistic ability and in depth knowledge to throw serious insight with his commentary.

Compare that to your extreme left rabid left whinge bloggers' insipid prose with the political insight of school child with brain damage. But I guess that mindless drivel is your thing.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Monday, 21 September 2015 7:20:34 PM
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SM,

"CK is right of center, but has the journalistic ability and in depth knowledge to throw serious insight with his commentary."

Does he really?

Like this type of thing you mean?

"These breakthroughs have been enormously beneficial for the nation, underpinning economic prosperity by protecting our international competitiveness..."

Our economy grew by 0.2% last quarter - and much of that paltry growth was due to increased defence spending.

Private investment is down.

Consumer confidence is down.

Net debt is up to 14.8% of GDP from 10.1% in June 2013.

Here's the latest:

"Foreign investors have turned especially bearish on the Australian economy, with one describing it as "toast", a National Australia Bank report says.

Chief economist Ivan Colhoun said a recent visit to clients in Britain, continental Europe and the Middle East revealed a "uniformly negative view on Australia's prospects".

"I have never experienced such overwhelming negativity on the outlook for the Australian economy and Australian dollar in all my years marketing the Australian economy offshore," he wrote on Monday."

http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/australia-is-toast-foreign-investors-tell-nab-20150921-gjrfth.html#ixzz3mNGnckHR

Chris Kenny waffling about "breakthroughs" which "have been enormously beneficial for the nation underpinning economic prosperity by protecting our international competitiveness" doesn't make it true.

Abbott had no economic plan apart from the IPA's agenda - he had no idea what actually governing was about. When the IPA's austerity plan was foiled at every turn, there was nowhere to go that didn't involve flags, uniforms and hysteria. Hockey didn't ever manage to pass a complete budget.

But Kenny can't see any of it...which makes him a partisan hack
Posted by Poirot, Monday, 21 September 2015 10:22:28 PM
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Dear Shadow Minister,

What on earth are you talking about?

The Murdoch press represents 2/3 of the media landscape in this country and they were so far in the Abbott camp they for all intents and purposes became his media unit. Throw in popular shock jocks like Jones, Bolt and Hadley who were completely sympathetic to Abbott's cause and the media bias for him was only comparable to Bishop's efforts as speaker.

How about parking the whinging on that score my friend because it just doesn't wash.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Monday, 21 September 2015 11:42:33 PM
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SR,

Newscorp does not control 2/3 of the Aus media. It does control 2/3 of the newspaper sales but only a small portion of TV, and no radio.

If newscorp can be considered to be the mouthpiece of the libs, then fairfax and the ABC can be considered to the mouthpiece of Labor.

Parrot,

Please grow a brain. The chinese economy and imports from Aus have crashed, and the mining sector is in far worse a condition than anytime under Labor, so things are not rosy. However, the non mining sector is growing well.

Getting rid of labor's useless time wasting regulations is saving the economy $bns. Fixing the budget black hole left by labor is being sabotaged by the Labor green coalition who as always put themselves ahead of the country.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Tuesday, 22 September 2015 3:23:05 PM
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