Good schools, or more importantly good teachers can do heaps.

For 2 out of 3 years a while back, little Clifton High school, on the Darling downs had the greatest number of OP 1s of all Queensland schools, private or public. I would have loved my kids to go to the school where those teachers were working.

A mate of mine owned a plantation on an atoll about 150 nautical miles north of Bougainville Island. It had a population of about 300 people of mostly Polynesian heritage. It had a school provided by Graham, with a single teacher provided by the PNG government. The parents were barely literate, & the school was only primary.

Graham put 6 of the boys through Kings Sydney, with 4 of those graduating from Sydney university. I reckon the Kings school teachers must have put a lot of effort into those boys.

5 girls also went through Sceggs Moss Vale, & 2 of them graduated Port Moresby university.

Schools & good teachers can be as important as parents in some situations

Out of all of the guvment departments that I have dealings with, the most ignorant and obstinate by far is the department of education.

They and their employees (generally speaking) are the ones least capable of evidence based reasoning, and the ones least likely to give "due consideration" with the most incompetent of admin procedures.

In WA, we are well down the path of funding the student as I have previously said. My daughter is recipient of a great swathe of additional support services including an Education Assistant, a specialist teacher for the hard of hearing and the list goes on.

My wife holds a Cert IV in EA Special Needs and I had opportunity to have a close look at the course. It was, as a course, evidence based

(ie the students had to collect, chart and analyse data and then answer questions designed to test their understanding)

and goes far beyond the requirements of the job. And as it happens, only a very small (less than 25%) of the class passed the course, with the locals dropping out like flies.

My Mrs, by way of contrast, had initially only a primary school education from Indonesia, and then upon arrival in Oz went AMEP, Cert II spoken and written english, Cert III, Cert IV, Cert III EA and finally Cert IV EA Special Needs.

Of course, in the Spirit of Vygotsky's:

Zone of Proximal Developement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lev_Vygotsky

she had me to back her up.

The biggest problem with some of the teachers I would suggest is these fat arsed, lazy, unfit, technically incompetent pigs who are first to say that they have been a teacher for 20+ years when challenged (20 years too long in my book)

It is not the new grads, though they also are in desperate need of being taught to reason akin to something of the best of training that the lawyers get.

Now, I would tend to think that the Minister needs to be retargeted in a very particular way. The basis for me saying this turns on my thoughts on how it is to best achieve better academic outcomes and in that regard we ought consider turning to the best of what modern science has to offer.

And that is, not merely doing more maths and english to improve maths and english, but rather, or additionally, striving to improved the physical and mental health of the students themselves.

To this end, a read of the studies into cogitation enhancers (of which there are very few - say as detailed in New Scientist) would be of invaluable assistance in my opinion.

The short version would be something like this:

1. The students must be taught why it is that bothering to study is important, first and foremostly.

2. Sport everyday first up in bright light (ideally blue but protect the eyes (sunnies as required))

3. Music for all daily

4. Another language, for all students

5. Blueberries in abundance and a healthy (albeit limited) amount of dark chocolate.

These are some of the child appropriate things which have been evidenced to enhance the very heath and vitality of the brain and the kids subsequent improved ability to process and retain information will rapidly improve their results.

Thereafter, school only without homework has never been enough. With digital delivery, kids can come home, finish off what they didn't get through during the day with parental support, and then go on to do some extra this or that

Maybe the bottom line is that there are many variables, and few givens: teachers, schools, parents and the children themselves each contribute or not to the education of the children:

* Teachers can be slack or brilliant regardless of funding;

* schools (i.e. principals) can be incompetent and chaotic or they can fervently try to provide the best environment for learning;

* parents can give a damn or not, read to their kids or not, and/or take no real interest in their kids' education and career paths;

* children can drive themselves or take the easy options.

I went to poorly-funded schools in Bankstown etc. in the fifties, with very dedicated teachers and classes of 45-48 kids, with parents on a shoestring income but a desperate faith in education, and with a personal sense of terror, most of the time, that I had to do the best I could or I would be doomed. So I was extraordinarily lucky compared to many of the kids of today.

So it's not primarily a matter of funding, or some manufactured difference between public and private schooling. I still have a deep affection for those teachers of sixty years ago, Mr Laffey at Chester Hill, Mr Johnson at Penrith, real heroes. But there aren't any magic bullets, everybody in the system has to pull their weight.

Joe

Hard to argue with any of that Joe.

But if the funding is placed in the hands of parents, who then chose which school to forward it on to, then the process of natural selection will begin to eliminate under-performing schools, regardless of the reason?

I suspect we need do no more than just that and or bypassing the usual controls imposed by the state, to quite massively improve performance outcomes.

Along with published apples for apples benchmarking/best practice comparisons!

In which case, the children that still do badly, will have to be investigated, to see where their particular problem lies; i.e., parents that just don't give a fig?

And no I'm not talking about placing extra money in the hands of parents, rather a degree of control as to where their means tested allocation is directed.

I would also remove the handcuffs from Public school Principal's hands, allowing them to hire and fire, so as to eliminate what stands between them and access to improved outcomes/funding!

I mean too many aspiring teachers are just not classroom ready; and in some cases illiterate or lack numeracy skills?

All of which can be exposed and remediated by pre classroom examinations? I mean how can you teach what you just don't know or understand?

And there's a case for removing responsibility for outcomes from parents, who just don't give a dam!? But particularly those who snort, smoke, inject or hiss/rob their child's endowment/education money!

In which case the school day should start far earlier, and include breakfast, lunch/fruit and veggies: and rewarding after school activities!

Kids sifting through garbage cans for food scraps is usually a sign of extreme neglect! Ditto some transferable eye conditions!
Rhrosty
Rhrosty.

Hi Rhosty,

That's right, it's a large and complicated package of factors. I taught for a year fifty years ago, 49 kids in IV and V, with weekly tests in mental arithmetic, arithmetic, spelling and dictation every Friday morning - all marked over the recess and marks recorded. That way, you knew from the very first week which kids were having trouble (and so needed the bulk of your attention) and which kids were going to sail through. They all passed onto the next grades the next year.

I was very lucky - in such a small country town, there seemed to be few parents who were neglectful, many were poor and poorly-educated but all were trying to do the best for their kids. No drunks, no obvious child abuse, in a town with little or no unemployment back then. So, on the whole, the fortunes of the kids depended largely on the school and teachers, quite a clear-cut situation.

Mostly farm kids, at least three of those kids have passed away now, but some others went on to university and eventually high positions. I loved every one of them, as a teacher should.

Joe