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The Forum > Article Comments > Cruelty in PNG: hunger strike on Manus Island > Comments

Cruelty in PNG: hunger strike on Manus Island : Comments

By Binoy Kampmark, published 22/1/2015

An indigent state such as PNG, with limited infrastructure and facilities to process refugees, let alone resettle them, actually imperils applicants once their claims are fully processed.

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Hands up all the people on this forum who either arrived as refugees or had close relatives who did...

An economic migrant is someone looking for a better life, which I'll bet describes the reason that the people you are descended from decided to come to Australia, SPQR. I wonder whether they'd be proud that their descendant, who benefitted from their efforts, is trying to deny the same chance to others?

It doesn't matter what we call the people on Manus, they are still people. Use of terms designed to hide the reality of the humanity of others is a long tradition, Sadly, it's not one that most people would be proud to own up to following.

I guess that must mean you're special, SPQR...
Posted by Craig Minns, Saturday, 24 January 2015 7:23:31 AM
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Craig,

<<An economic migrant is someone looking for a better life, which I'll bet describes the reason that the people you are descended from decided to come to Australia>>
Yes Craig , maybe, but they did NOT use the Refugee Convention as a pretext!

<<, SPQR. I wonder whether they'd be proud that their descendant, who benefitted from their efforts, is trying to deny the same chance to others?>>
Craig , the <<people>>> on Manus are more than welcome to apply under a dozen different categories of migrant entry –and take their chances like everyone else

<<It doesn't matter what we call the people on Manus, they are still people>>
No one is denying they are people –the question is, are they <<refugees>> as they purport to be!
Mr Monis was <<people>> too! And he was "thoroughly vetted and found to be genuine" ...and look what a wonderful contribution he made to Oz,eh!

<<I guess that must mean you're special, SPQR.>>
Thanks Craig, but Sorry, I cant say the same about you –you are just another open-borders clone
Posted by SPQR, Saturday, 24 January 2015 7:59:00 AM
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Let's think about your post, SPQR.

I call a plumber: "Help, I have water all over the kitchen, a pipe has sprung a leak."

Plumber arrives:"Hmmm, you seem to have pipes that are blocked because you've been flushing fatty pans down the drain you naughty thing. I'd love to help, but you told me specifically that you had a leaky pipe. You're on your own, mate."

I don't think so...
Posted by Craig Minns, Saturday, 24 January 2015 8:04:07 AM
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Hahaha sounds more like out public service

"Sorry sir, when you filled out this 16 page form you omitted to initial clause 1600b ...no. no. no. you cant change it . You will have to go back and do it all again and wait another 2 months for it to processed" :)
Posted by SPQR, Saturday, 24 January 2015 8:11:25 AM
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If it were just a few thousand people in desperate trouble, I would agree with BJelly and Craig. The problem is that there are billions of people out there who would like a better life. The US has 11-13 million illegal immigrants, wit Mexicans forming the largest group, at least until recently. There are 5 billion people living in countries poorer than Mexico.

According to the UNHCR, there are 52.1 million people who have been forcibly displaced.

http://www.unhcr.org/53a155bc6.html

About 18 million are refugees, and the rest are internally displaced people who could become refugees by crossing an international border. In addition, there are 3.5 million stateless people.

Before it toughened up, the UK got half a million asylum claims between 1997 and 2004, not counting family members who arrived later. Of these, 23% were found to be genuine refugees, including after appeal. 14% were granted exceptional leave to remain. Some of these were humanitarian cases who couldn't quite fit the criteria of the Refugee Convention, but often this was done because it was considered practically impossible to deport them. The other 63% had their refugee claims denied. Of the failed asylum seekers, only 24% ended up being deported. Pretty good odds, especially if they know that their home country won't cooperate with deportation!

http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/9.14

See also from the Migration Observatory at Oxford University

http://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/briefings/migration-uk-asylum

No doubt you will bring up that a much higher proportion of asylum seekers were found to be genuine here, but SPQR has put up references on how officials are advised to give asylum seekers the benefit of the doubt, and there has to be doubt if they have destroyed their travel documents and identification, and tell an unverifiable story that ticks the boxes of the Refugee Convention.

How exactly would you prevent us from being swamped, with disadvantaged citizens hurt the most? Numbers were increasing exponentially under Kevin Rudd after he abandoned the previous government's policy. What about the obligation of the foreigners to fix up dysfunctional aspects of their culture that lead to poverty and refugee flows? International agreements are not suicide pacts.
Posted by Divergence, Saturday, 24 January 2015 1:50:41 PM
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Hi Divergence, with so many people displaced by war and conflict it is a shame more emphasis is not put on peace and resolving conflict.

Dialogue, making efforts to respect and understand one another would go a long way towards peace. I know this sounds daft, but it is the only practical way change will happen. Many of our troubles are because of foreign bases and corporate interests controlling resources in the Middle East. If Western military bases were closed, and if corporations left or worked in true partnership, we would have less conflict.

Most of the people arriving by boat come from Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and Sri Lanka. In the cases of Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan, we have either said their regimes are evil or have occupied them for over a decade to either improve their (a)freedoms or (b)to get access their oil/gas/poppy fields. We are one of the few Commonwealth countries not to take issue with Sri Lanka's alleged war crimes, but I guess their importance to maintaining sea lane security for petroleum and trade is enough for us to overlook grave human rights violations. These people need our help.

With millions displaced around the world, only a small percentage would choose to move to Austalia - we are so far from the rest of the world. We currently allow for 190,000 immigrants to come to Australia each year. I can't see us being swamped if some of those places are given to people seeking asylum.

It is frightening thinking there is such great suffering in the world, but like it or not, we are in this together. Wouldn't it be better to be part of the solution rather than part of the problem?

Being generous to those in need doesn't mean our disadvantaged would be worse off if we were serious about ideals like egalitarianism and mateship. Our government has billions for banks, coal miners and war, but talks of austerity when it comes to looking after the less fortunate like pensioners, the unemployed, students and the sick (leaners) hmm.
Posted by BJelly, Saturday, 24 January 2015 4:38:03 PM
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