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The Forum > Article Comments > Stop the uni cost disease > Comments

Stop the uni cost disease : Comments

By Steven Schwartz, published 22/1/2015

Although today's lecture theatres are more comfortable than those of the past, what goes on inside them has not changed for centuries. It takes the same amount of time to deliver a one-hour lecture as it did in the 19th century.

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Hasbeen, I did suggest that raising the bar might be a possible approach. You're a man of very lengthy, wide-ranging experience, is there anything else you could suggest?

For example, could we perhaps look at getting people like you into schools to share some of your knowledge with students? Maths, as you say, is a problem area, but there are lots of people trained in maths sitting in engineering offices and science labs around the country who might be able to help, even for a couple of hours a week. That's without considering the retired professionals who might jump at the chance to do something for the community. Ditto for the science subjects.

One of the things I see people struggle with is contextualising their knowledge. Learning to do integrals is all very well, but it doesn't mean much to a school student. A professional who has used the maths to solve real problems and can explain how will help.

The problem with all of that is that thanks to people like Hetty Johnston (for all her good intentions) getting access to a school in this sort of way is stupidly complex and drawn out. I offered to help Boystown with their great program Youth Connections in 2013, when I had a couple of free months between work and study. They were very welcoming, but the process of jumping through the bureaucratic hoops was going to take several months, so that didn't happen.

The unis could do with more of the same sort of thing, being very focussed on vocational learning within the STEM courses, although I understand Uni of Melbourne is introducing a 5 year program, with early study devoted to a wide curriculum and only the final years focussing on the major. Let's see how that works out.
Posted by Craig Minns, Sunday, 25 January 2015 6:28:31 AM
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That has problems too Craig.

Almost 15 years ago now I tried to help my daughter, & one of her class mates, with year 12 math C. They had a teacher who could not actually handle the subject herself, but apparently knew enough to tell the girls that I was doing it wrong. They don't do it that way any more.

Fashion in Math, that's a new one on me, but who would know in our feminised education system & syllabus. I would be even more out of date, according to todays syllabus, I should imagine.

Fortunately QUT had a good math/physics coaching school on Saturdays, so the girls spent every Saturday for 7 months catching a train to town, because a 1,700 kid high school did not have a capable math teacher, & I did it "wrong".

Ridiculously the girlfriend is now a vet, & my daughter a full time mum, & part time accountant from home. So much time wasted studying the wrong subjects.
Posted by Hasbeen, Sunday, 25 January 2015 1:40:00 PM
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I know exactly what you're talking about, Hasbeen, but that isn't a reason to stop trying.

The integral of x squared is 1/3 x cubed is definitional. How to prove it may change to suit the curriculum: what it means doesn't.

My first battle in teaching my son how to do maths was to show him that the 'right' way isn't the only way.
Posted by Craig Minns, Sunday, 25 January 2015 1:53:29 PM
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Steven Schwartz says "Modern technology ... has had little influence on teaching and learning". He claims that lectures "remain ubiquitous". Perhaps that is the case at Macquarie University (where he was the VC), but is not everywhere.

I gave up giving lectures in 2009 and have been teaching primarily on-line since then: http://www.tomw.net.au/blog/2008/08/my-last-lecture.html

I teach with a Learning Management System, to communicate with students and for them to collaborate with each other on-line. This does not require much bandwidth or computing power, but what it does need is a deep understanding of learning.

Steven Schwartz is wrong to claim "It takes the same amount of time to deliver a one-hour lecture as it did in the 19th century.". Research shows students can't pay attention for an hour, so recorded video lectures are generally much shorter than an hour (seven to twenty minutes). Students are encouraged to work actively, to cerement the knowledge.

As Steven Schwartz suggests there is a risk of uni­versities being distracted by seeking income. But my impression is that Australian universities understand they are there primarily to research and teach.

It is possible to produce distance eduction courses (as has been done for decades) with less staff time for deliver, but they are a different experience for the student.

As Steven Schwartz says students rank the UK Open University (OU) very highly, but this caters to a different market and provides a different experience to campus based institutions. Also OU was doing this before the Internet and its success does not depend on digital technology, but on careful design of distance education. Without administrators and academics trained in how to do it, this form of education does not work.

Online learning will replace most face-to-face teaching (about 80% within five years). But this will require significant resources for universities to accomplish. It would be a mistake to see this as a way to cross-subsidize small group learning and study abroad.

Australian universities need to learn to teach primarily on-line or most of their Australian and international students will be lost to overseas institutions, within five years.
Posted by tomw, Tuesday, 27 January 2015 11:11:08 AM
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I gave up face-to-face teaching due to uninterested students. There is a very real problem in getting them to focus. I have no answers other than to put higher entry levels in place and make passing harder.

The drive to push every Tom, Dick, and Harry into university, in my view, has had detrimental effects. Many students simply should not be there.

Additionally, university is, mostly, a left-wing institution more concerned with matters of morality than research and creating reasoned arguments.
Posted by Aristocrat, Wednesday, 28 January 2015 12:12:25 AM
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