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The Forum > Article Comments > Charlie Hebdo: freedom of speech, religion and co-existence > Comments

Charlie Hebdo: freedom of speech, religion and co-existence : Comments

By Tristan Ewins, published 13/1/2015

We need to avoid an escalation of rhetoric which would only polarise our society along religious and ethnic grounds. Here,freedom should ideally be balanced with honest self-criticism.

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I am making no apologies for militant, fundamentalist, terroristic, radical Islam. I am saying that there are liberalising influences. And that engagement could help promote those liberalising influences at home - and prevent a similar attack occurring in Australia. I also note how the Christian ethic of 'turning the other cheek' can reconcile Christianity with liberal tolerance. But the 'Christian' regime in Uganda is a reality. For the record I defend the Christian faith on the Left - and it's a difficult struggle. Tell me - what is the 'alternative' to 'the stink of secular culture' as you put it?
Posted by Tristan Ewins, Tuesday, 13 January 2015 11:09:28 AM
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BTW working with radical/militant Islam was considered acceptable under Reagan - who funded and backed the Mujahadeen! Largely its about geo-politics. And for the record I encourage honest and critical self-reflection for EVERYONE.
Posted by Tristan Ewins, Tuesday, 13 January 2015 11:11:49 AM
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Instill enough fear through violence/violent reprisals and you may still some but not all tongues.

But you will never ever be able to control what people think and or prevent them rail against inherent injustice.

And when there are enough of them, no power on earth will stand in their way.

What do you think gave rise to revolution and democracy; or indeed, the Arab spring!
Not Madame Guillotine or injustice!

Albeit, one of the few effective ways of stilling independent or original thought!

For speech to remain inherently free it must include the right to offend/re-offend.

Albeit, no reasonable man truly secure in his belief system, would necessarily chose to be offended, but return with some clever and humorous repartee.

If a smile could offend in some circumstances, should we outlaw smiles or laughter, just as Bronwin has seemingly tried to do in parliament?

There is something of a pointed barb in derision, which nonetheless, remains a two edged sword!

An unexamined life is hardly worth living, ditto this or that belief system, which for many people is something they contract like a disease, rather than any process of thought or questioning, why is it so!

i.e., who gave you specifically, the right to speak in God's name, and decide his justice.

It's not inheritable, and certainly not by those inherently evil!

Even if it's right, how can it include injustice and the spilling of innocent blood, which is expressly forbidden in all the tenants of Islam!

And the attempted silencing of Charlie Hebdo, was both intensely evil and spilled massive amounts, most of it, innocent blood!

Even so, there will be a small and inherently evil cadre who approve, and even though these people are not actively expressing their hate, we cannot, nonetheless peacefully coexist with them or the minds they convert or brainwash; to make things as inherent evil and against God's law, somehow acceptable?

Acceptable?

Who says?

God?

Ah so, can you ask him to tone it down a bit, the (extreme bass mode) noise is killing me!

Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Tuesday, 13 January 2015 11:27:13 AM
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kactuz you need to ave a read of the bible as well them mate. The author's point is valid, all religions will go bad when they have control of the political process. We see this in Africa and the posts of runner.
Posted by Cobber the hound, Tuesday, 13 January 2015 12:11:26 PM
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Tristan, we will never find "honest self criticism" in any human being, its not part of the human condition. That's exclusively why we are human and thus imperfect. Degrees of subjectivity a part n' parcel of being human. Even the most cold, detached (as far as anyone can tell) analytical & intellectual of all scientists is polluted with subjectivity.
I question 2% of the Australian population who choose to report to ABS what religion they believe in. Reporting to ABS are those who are brave enough to report it in the first place to government bodies! This fact has significant bearing because of the rapidly changing geopolitical landscape, thanks to that most trendy of electronic medias - internet.
I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if this 2% is now doubled, encouraged once again by that organism known as the internet...
Now don't get me wrong, the internet is a marvelous idea, but the whole notion of "Trust" takes on a completely different plane of existence unlike anything else in the history of human civilization, solely because of the internet itself and the information it communicates. Like an old teacher from the 90's said to me, everything you see on the net could and can be BS! tell that to the young folk today and they wont believe you. That is why ISIL is growing in numbers..

To live "harmoniously" in a liberal democracy such as France or even Australia, one HAS to be tolerant and forgiving, both core christian values, weather one likes or even believes, in Christianity or not.
We either tolerate each other or we don't, it really boils down to that simple concept.. and those killers in the Charlie Hebdo incident clearly do not tolerate and forgive. Like I've said on this site before in another article related to this incident, they choose to be judge, jury and executioner in one act of destruction of others lives.
What's the alternative to tolerance and forgiveness? hostility and paranoia everywhere? WWIII even? in which case it will be over very quickly once nukes get launched anyway..
Posted by Rojama, Tuesday, 13 January 2015 12:49:40 PM
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It is really quite simple.
Power always sooner or later corrupts those who get to wield it.
Even more so when power is exercised or justified in the "name of 'God'", especially the Middle Eastern monotheistic power-and-control-seeking cults Christianism, Islamism and Judaism.

The "sacred power" that monotheistic creationist-religions claim to bring, or would extend into the entire human world is, it says, the creator-god of the universe. Whereas in fact, the power that such religions actually exercises, or would everywhere exercise if unimpeded, is that of the humanly-governed political, social, economic, cultural, and altogether, merely exoteric institutionalization of the totally of humankind.

The institutionalizing-power that such exoteric monotheistic religion exercises , or would everywhere exercise if allowed to function at will, is of an inherently intolerant nature, because it is self-possessed by a reductionist, and tribalistic, and exclusively exoteric mentality, that cannot accept any non-"orthodox", extra-tribal or extra-institutional non-monoetheistic, or, othewise, esoteric exceptions to its self-appointed "rule".

Islam of course specializes in this tactic. Many "orthodox" Islamicists even consider Sufism to be a "heresy" - execution being the punishment.
But many/most right-wing "catholics" also subscribe to and practice this tactic too.
Dont be fooled by the smiling face of the new pope. Remember that most/all of the in power "catholic" cardinals were put in place by the two previous right-wing popes who were especially favorable to the secretive totalitarian cult opus dei - and similar back-to-the-past "traditionalist" cults.
Posted by Daffy Duck, Tuesday, 13 January 2015 1:15:13 PM
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