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The Forum > Article Comments > Islam must degrade and destroy islamic state > Comments

Islam must degrade and destroy islamic state : Comments

By David Singer, published 31/12/2014

Surely the time has come for the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation to galvanise its member states into pledging unified Islamic military action to degrade and destroy Islamic State.

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SURELY!
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Wednesday, 31 December 2014 9:52:32 AM
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Why is it every Muslim's fault that there are violent groups like IS who also happen to practice the Islamic religion?

Did all the Christians of the world have to unite to destroy the IRA when it was at it's murderous best in the 1980's in England and Ireland?
Posted by Suseonline, Wednesday, 31 December 2014 10:20:17 AM
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IS and Al Qaeda are Western/Israeli inventions to justify the invasion of Muslim Countries for energy and strategic locations.
Posted by Arjay, Wednesday, 31 December 2014 12:02:05 PM
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Chairman Suze Mao,
https://www.flickr.com/photos/chinesepostersnet/16064771825/

Why have you deserted your Chairman post on Secularism? That's very irresponsible. It's not suppose to be a sinecure you know.

It gets very boring after a while when you keeping on insisting FOR YEARS! that the Irish issue was religious for the sake of diversion. Is it the only thing you have to say? They had warranted political rebellion for fighting off the consequences of the evil English invasion that annihilated about 40% of the Irish population. Have you ever heard of England's motto of "Divide and Conquer" policies?

You've flogged it to death.
Posted by Constance, Wednesday, 31 December 2014 12:39:37 PM
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Dream on, Mr. Singer. It is nice, really nice, that those people and organizations have condemned ISIS. Wait a minute, aren’t these the same blokes that have been condemning ‘radical Islam’ for years and telling us that hate and violence has nothing to do with the ‘real Islam’?

I don’t know, who knows, quien sabe, maybe your appeal will result in a great coalition of the OIC faithful just that will rise up and smite the false demons of the IS, sending them to the fires of hades with the other infidels – or maybe the whole thing will result in a big fat zero.

There is also another problem: if it is anything, the Islamic state is Islamic. Its theory and practice are straight from the Quran and hadith. It is very probable that OIC fighters sent to oppose it will end up joining ISIS.

The only reason that Muslim states are worried about ISIS is because it promises a new leadership; it is not because of the message or theology. Arab and Muslim presidents and dictators care only about their own necks.

So, OIC will continue to issue meaningless condemnatory statements saying radical Islam (ISIS, AlQueida, BokoHaram, etc…) is not the real Islam and Western leaders will also issue their own equally meaningless statements saying the same and nothing will change.

Actually, this is about the silliest article I have ever seen on OLO.
Posted by kactuz, Wednesday, 31 December 2014 1:10:45 PM
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Next thing David you will expect the Hamas terrorist to condemn suicide bombings in Israel.

'The only reason that Muslim states are worried about ISIS is because it promises a new leadership; it is not because of the message or theology. Arab and Muslim presidents and dictators care only about their own necks.'

so true kactuz
Posted by runner, Wednesday, 31 December 2014 1:23:20 PM
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Oh Arjay, please take a Bex and have a nice lie down.
Posted by Bazz, Wednesday, 31 December 2014 1:30:46 PM
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Suse,

"Did all the Christians of the world have to unite to destroy the IRA when it was at it's murderous best in the 1980's in England and Ireland?"

Of course they didn't as most realized that the IRA were fighting the invaders and oppressors of Ireland.
Invaders and deniers of basic democratic rights deserve all that they get.
Just remember, Suse, the IRA didn't start 'The Troubles' they were England's responsibility.
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 31 December 2014 2:20:46 PM
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Israel created their owned controlled opposition in Hamas so peace would not come to Palestine. Thus they had excuses to steal more land.

http://henrymakow.com/israelcreatedhamastoavoid.html
Posted by Arjay, Wednesday, 31 December 2014 3:22:52 PM
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Arjay,

You are living proof of the validity of the theory of parallel universes.
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 31 December 2014 4:06:21 PM
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#Suseonline

The IRA were never regarded as a threat to world peace and security. Islamic State is - and that is why every nation needs to join in degrading and destroying it.

#arjay

Since Islamic State was only created on 30 June 2014 - your claim seems a little far fetched. Can you substantiate it with some facts?

#kactuz and #runner

What you fail to understand is that 62 members of the UN have backed up their meaningless statements by taking military action against Islamic State. The remaining. 131 UN states need to act likewise - if they want to save their necks.
Posted by david singer, Wednesday, 31 December 2014 4:09:13 PM
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Suse
From the mid 60's the IRA were a Marxist liberation group like the Red Brigades or the Weather Underground and they were supported by the left around the world. Militant Christianity ended over 350 years ago with the Treaty Of Westphalia and the few messianic or apocalyptic movements which have taken up arms since then have been put down with violence by the state and their leaders executed.
In total, (including the Crusades) Catholic military forces made about 20 attempts to invade Muslim lands over 200 years and they gave up Crusading in the thirteenth century, Muslim armies on the other hand made over 350 incursions into Europe between, the seventh and twentieth centuries.
Christianity was spread by unarmed missionaries working alone or in small groups, Islam was spread by military conquest with vast armies sweeping back and forth across Asia, Europe and North Africa scorching the earth and slaughtering every Christian, Buddhist and Hindu in their path.
Islam is not a religion, it's a martial cult, in English the word Muslim has come to replace the word Mohammedan in an effort to soften the image of Islam, ISIS are Mohammedans, they follow Mohammed, imitate his tactics and take his word as law.
Mohammed needs to be put in his proper context by positioning him in history alongside Julius Caesar, Napoleon Bonaparte and Adolf Hitler, he's a messianic war chief, not a sage like Jesus Christ or the Buddha.
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Wednesday, 31 December 2014 5:21:21 PM
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The difference between the IRA and ISIS is that the IRA wanted to join
the Irish republic a democratic constitutional republic.

Hamas, the ISIS and various mullahs want a caliphate, by definition a
fascist theocracy.
The general moslem population, even if they were uneasy about the
politics involved would go along with it.
As a mullah said recently; If death for apostasy did not exist then
Islam would have disappeared years ago.

Moslems need to be assured that they can leave Islam without being
murdered, or attacked or even been ostracised by their friends.
That requires all moslems to be assured of protection.
It requires changes to the Koran, that forbids friendship with infidels.

These are big hurdles for moslems, because it can mean cutting off
from family and friends.
Posted by Bazz, Wednesday, 31 December 2014 7:03:52 PM
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A further though, could an organisation be set up that could harbour
moslem families that want to leave Islam and stay in Australia and
move to an area with few or no moslems.
They could adopt new names also and let it be known that they were
some other Middle East minority.

Is this already being done ?
Posted by Bazz, Wednesday, 31 December 2014 7:22:07 PM
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Bazz,
Correction, Hafez Al Assad and Saddam Hussein were Ba'thists, which is a variant of Fascism, Muammar Ghadaffi could also be described as a Fascist but IS, Hamas, Al Nusra, Taliban etc are the complete opposite of Fascists, they're pure theocrats where Fascism is a form of socialism.
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Wednesday, 31 December 2014 10:23:24 PM
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Think of Europe in the 15th century, and you might begin to understand at what point in history the Islamic world is at today. In 15th century Europe, the two primary political forces within every nation state were the absolute monarchs, and the Church. Both groups formed uneasy alliances to rule the people, with both sides jockeying for absolute power. In those contests, the Kings usually won their fights against the Church, because there was nothing in the Christian religion which said that the clergy was top dog. The Church was divided between the Prots and the Catholics, who were at war with each other.

In the Islamic world today, the role of Kings has been replaced by dictators. At the moment, the Church in the form of Islam, is winning it's fight against the "Kings." It is doing so, because the man who began the Islamic religion decreed that church and state were inseparable. That means that the "Kings" must do the bidding of the Mullahs, and all the mullahs have to do to win the support of the people is to point out the relevant passages in the Koran. The Islamic religion itself is divided roughly into two main factions, and they too are at war with each other for supremacy.

To say that ISIL has nothing to do with Sunni Islam, is like saying that the Inquisition had nothing to do with the Catholic Church. Saying that the violence in the Middle east has nothing to do with Islam, is like saying that the Hundred Years War in Germany had nothing to do with Christianity.

Middle Eastern oil is so important to western (and now Asian) economies, that western leaders are denying reality. We bomb the Muslims who make no bones about their intention to destroy us from without using terrorism. But we support the Muslims who are at war with them, and but at least sell us oil. Those particular Muslims wish to destroy us from within, using more effective means, like high Muslim immigration rates, with Islam spreading, suburb by suburb.

And they are winning.
Posted by LEGO, Thursday, 1 January 2015 5:50:25 AM
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Lego, I find little or nothing to dispute in your post.
It does look similar to Europe in the period leading up to the reformation.
The IS Caliphate might well be a transition moment, in the flow of
history but it will not change Islam like the reformation changed Christianity.
Iran is probably what a true Islamic state would look like.
A fascist dictatorship ruled by clergy who have directive control of government.

As they all say, no separation of Mosque and State.

That is a political structure called fascism.
Posted by Bazz, Thursday, 1 January 2015 9:18:06 AM
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A dose of Theodore Dalrymple:
https://theodoredalrymple.wordpress.com/category/political-correctness/

When Christianity goes, so does the West. When weak, Islam moves in. Simple really. The internal Christian wars began with the Reformation as cited (thus destroying any images of Christ – sound a bit Islamic?) so here we are now. One extreme creates another. Puritan fundamentalism, seems a bit Islamic to me. Henry VIII and his disposing of wives? Martin Luther it seems also contributed to anti-Semitism in Germany. His writings were the blue-print for what came later. He also actually did not leave the CC but was ex-communicated for all his propaganda.

Islamic scholars such as Bernard Lewis and Egyptian Jesuit Father Samir Khalil Samir are saying islam has been creeping in the more Secular the West becomes.

It only takes one man.

power-and-the-glory, Graham Greene:
“The priest, then, is a fully drawn character; but he is also a spokesman for Greene's view of the continuity of the Catholic Church. As a sensitive and thoughtful person, the protagonist is scarcely expendable; yet he is only a small part of a large spiritual organisation - the Roman Catholic Church. In his debate with the lieutenant, the whisky priest states that the totalitarian state is based upon personalities. When its leaders die, he says, the government will probably fall, consumed by corruption. The Church, he argues, does not depend on any one person, and the appearance of the new priest at the end of the novel manifests Greene's thesis.”

Middle Ages (so called Dark Ages maybe not so bad): "How to be Free", Tom Hodgkinson. Of course the arrival of industrialisation and now serious corporatising going on.

George Orwell 1984 - are we there yet?

http://www.cato-unbound.org/2006/02/05/theodore-dalrymple/old-europe-doomed

Socialist governments of Sweden and France have big problems and the UK, as Dr Dalrymple describes as paranoiac and brutish.

Leonard Cohen - First We Take Manhattan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTTC_fD598A
Posted by Constance, Thursday, 1 January 2015 1:36:32 PM
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"The impassioned plea by the father of a Jordanian F16 fighter pilot captured by Islamic State has shot down attempts by American President Obama, British Prime Minister David Cameron, Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott and the Organisation of the Islamic Conference (OIC) to distance Islam from the Islamic State (ISIL).

Speaking to the media - the father of Islamic State's star captive - 1st Lt. Mu'ath al-Kaseasbeh, - said:

I direct a message to our generous brothers of the Islamic State in Syria: to host my son, the pilot Mu'ath, with generous hospitality. I ask God that their hearts are gathered together with love, and that he is returned to his family, wife and mother.

We are all Muslims."

The pilot's Muslim father is being realistic by admitting to the fact that Islamic State members are indeed Muslim.

In the words of University of Queensland academic, David Martin Jones, "Anglosphere governments engage in a discourse of denial leading to a disjunction between what Islamists say, what the media and security community say they mean and what Islamists actually do. Such self-delusion will ultimately prove self-defeating."('Lone wolves, stray dogs and leaderless resistance", The Australian, 1 January 2015)

(Cont. in next post
Posted by Raycom, Thursday, 1 January 2015 3:02:03 PM
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" The Secretary General also distanced Islam from the actions of the militant group known as ISIS, saying they "have nothing to do with Islam and its principles that call for justice, kindness, fairness, freedom of faith and coexistence."

In this context, it is unsurprising that he steers away from the perception of Quran readers who regard the Quran as advocating violence. For example ( see http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm ):

" The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Quran.

The context of violent passages is more ambiguous than might be expected of a perfect book from a loving God, however this can work both ways. Most of today's Muslims exercise a personal choice to interpret their holy book's call to arms according to their own moral preconceptions about justifiable violence. Apologists cater to their preferences with tenuous arguments that gloss over historical fact and generally do not stand up to scrutiny. Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people, but bad ideology.

Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to abrogate or even balance out the many that call for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed. Muhammad's own martial legacy - and that of his companions - along with the remarkable stress on violence found in the Quran have produced a trail of blood and tears across world history."
Posted by Raycom, Thursday, 1 January 2015 3:08:52 PM
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There are dozens of Islamic nations, there are thousands of Islamic Jihadist groups. Between them in just one month, July 7 to August 8, 2014, they racked up 235 lethal attacks, killed 2,800 and maimed 8,600. At the same time they raped, enslaved, brutalised and subjugated countless defensless citizens of all creeds, cultures, religions, including Islam. They perpetrated permanent mutilation of their own children through FGM, embraced pedaphelia, enjoyed the company of other male Jihadis to the extent that many now have to wear "nappies" as a consequence. They all fight amongst each other however, they all share a common enemy. I wonder who that might be? Yet we in the West enjoy the company of those amongst us who, for whatever twisted ideology, embrace, support, condone and appease this medieval monstrosity we "peacefully" call Islam. How sick is that?
Posted by spindoc, Thursday, 1 January 2015 5:59:44 PM
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Spindoc,
Few people in the West know what "moderate" Muslims believe, even a Sufi like Sheikh Imran Nazir Hussein speaks of the death of the West as a certainty, and he's not talking about spiritual desolation but it's physical destruction.
"The friends of the Jews" are destroyed in Islamic eschatology and only "Rum", the Eastern Orthodox Christians survive armageddon to make peace with Islam, everyone else is converted or killed.
Why worry? Heck it's not like they have form eh?
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Thursday, 1 January 2015 7:32:58 PM
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'Morning Jay,

Of course there is no such thing as a "moderate" Muslim however, it is such a concept that permits appeasers to support Islam. There is no escape from a destructive, murderous, medieval, butchering cult that embraces everything we Australians despise.

That said there are "Australians" who actually see merit in the wholesale slaughter of innocents. Otherwise they would not seek to appease Islam. When the passion for ones ideology replaces any semblance of real compassion, they are lost causes.

I have to wonder what sort of people in our society could condone the genital mutilation of ones children in the pursuit of religion. If anyone did this to my children or grandchildren, I would hunt them to the grave. Likewise I feel the very same towards those who tell me that "only some Muslims behave this way". Disgusting cretins.
Posted by spindoc, Thursday, 1 January 2015 8:30:24 PM
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I had been starting to worry that this ISIS mob would get so big that
they would attack Israel. That would have unleashed a nuclear attack by Israel.
It would have been literally a survival action.

Depending on Pakistan's decision as the only Islamic nuclear country
if it came in to attack Israel then the US would almost certainly attack Pakistan.

This nightmare fortunately looks unlikely to arise.
It appears that most of the ISIS is now composed largely of foreign
fighters many of whom do not speak Arabic.
This is putting the locals well offside and Isis is being pushed back
from their gains. There have been reports of ISIS executing its own foreign members.
We might be seeing the start of its collapse.
Posted by Bazz, Thursday, 1 January 2015 9:55:37 PM
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Given that its mainly Muslims living in poverty in the Middle East and South Asia that are the victims of these Islamic terrorist groups its probably a tad unfair to expect these people to rise up against a well armed and trained IS and defeat them.
Lets remember that it was Blair, Bush and Howards invasions and destabilisation of the regions that gave rise to these nutjobs in the first place so we do have some responsibility to rid the regions of them.
Posted by Crowie, Friday, 2 January 2015 6:56:41 AM
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‘morning Crowie,

You said, “Given that its mainly Muslims living in poverty in the Middle East and South Asia that are the victims of these Islamic terrorist groups”.

July 7 to August 8, 2014, these Islamic “hero’s” racked up 235 lethal attacks across the world, killed 2,800 and maimed 8,600. At the same time they raped, enslaved, brutalized and subjugated countless defenseless citizens of all creeds, cultures, religions, including Islam.

You can check out the locations, victims, dates, reasons and carnage at the link provided. You might also note that these are for just one month, a full year of “peaceful Islam” would represent over 30,000 dead and over 100,000 maimed.

http://pickeringpost.com/story/dear-mr-marles/3653

You also said “Lets remember that it was Blair, Bush and Howards invasions and destabilization of the regions that gave rise to these nut jobs in the first place” Really?

I guess we can wipe 1,400 years of Islamic savagery off the history books can we?

Perhaps the next time you post you might let us know what it is about Islam, the religion of “peace” that particularly appeals to you?
Posted by spindoc, Friday, 2 January 2015 7:32:54 AM
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The whole world is already against Islam and Islamic States, you people cant see that Muslim's children are also dying. White Elephants are already playing divide and rule game between Islamic States. The terrorists have no religion, the most Islamic faces you see in terrorists group are not really Muslims and i think they does not belong to any of religion because no religion teach this kind of brutality.
Posted by freidariviere, Friday, 2 January 2015 7:33:23 AM
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‘morning fredariviere,

When the school holidays are over, may I suggest that you concentrate a little harder on reading, comprehension, context, syntax, spelling, fact checking, structure and punctuation. You also need to ask teacher about “mixed metaphors”.

For example;

<< White Elephants are already playing divide and rule game between Islamic States>>

A “white elephant” is a possession which its owner cannot dispose of and whose cost is out of proportion to its usefulness.

An “elephant in the room” is an obvious truth that is either being ignored or going unaddressed.

Both expressions are idioms of “meaning” and cannot be either cause or effect, as such they cannot “play games” or “divide and conquer”.

If you have already left school you have my sincere condolences for the abject failure of our education system
Posted by spindoc, Friday, 2 January 2015 8:58:02 AM
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freidariviere,
If it walks like a duck, it looks like a duck and quakes like a duck;
It is a duck !

The IS claims all its actions are correct according to the Koran and Allah.
Everything it does is in support of Allah.
Is there any reason we should believe otherwise ?

Anyway, Allah was dreamt up by Mohammad but according to Steven Hawkins
the Big Bang was the time of creation but as there was no time before
it there was no time for Allah to exist, because there was no such thing as time.
Posted by Bazz, Friday, 2 January 2015 10:05:19 AM
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Now then chaps let's not be hard on Freida Riviere, English is not her first language, I'd guess from her writing that it is Spanish.
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 2 January 2015 11:31:45 AM
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You may well be right Is Mise.
freidariviere,
We do understand that the children of
moslems are dying, that is why we got involved again.
Otherwise we would be saying b47734 them, let them kill themselves
all off and they won't worry us anymore.

Actually a nuclear war there might do us all a favour.
Not really but----
Posted by Bazz, Friday, 2 January 2015 4:26:52 PM
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Jay of Melbourne,
I watch Sheikh Imran Hosein's videos from time to time and he seems 'moderate' to me.
He certainly doesnt come across as an extremist in any way.
I've heard him openly oppose muslims trying to join IS, calling them fools, and their caliphate bogus. Also where you say he speaks of the death of the west, he's talking about what Muslims refer to as Malhama or alternatively what Christians refer to as Armageddon, which really isnt that different from a Christian in our country doing bible study on The End Times. Nothing to make him an extremist that I can see. He has an interesting view on global geopolitical events and he always says not to believe his views unless you yourself are convinced he's correct.
Seems reasonable enough for an alternative opinion to me.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Friday, 2 January 2015 9:05:36 PM
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kactuz,

Quien sabe?

God Only Knows
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqLTe8h0-jo
Posted by Constance, Saturday, 3 January 2015 4:28:51 PM
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Armchair Critic,
You misunderstood, I too said Sheikh Hosein is a moderate, but apologists of Islam don't actually listen to Muslims, the death of the Liberal, multicultural West is a certainty, we saw a little bit of it die in Martin Place last month.
As the Sheikh asks us "What is the future of a society which counts as one of it's great achievements a law allowing a man to marry another man?"
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Saturday, 3 January 2015 4:38:20 PM
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