The Forum > Article Comments > Anti-religious card is poor way to oppose Abbott's uni policy > Comments
Anti-religious card is poor way to oppose Abbott's uni policy : Comments
By Mike Bird, published 11/12/2014Theological colleges teach a variety of courses on subjects like ancient Greek, ancient Hebrew, introduction to philosophy, ethics, Reformation history, overseas aid and development....
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It is not anti-religious to argue that the state should not subsidise religion/s: it is about the separation of church and state. Our constitution says that there should be no religious test for any office under the crown. It is a reasonable extension of that provision to argue that there should be no religious test for any student subsidised by the crown, i.e. no payment for anyone whose faith or adherence to a church, mosque etc is--de jure or de facto--an entry qualification for a course of study.
Posted by Asclepius, Thursday, 11 December 2014 10:58:12 AM
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the state subsidies and promotes the global warming religion, feminist studies, evolutionary fantasy and the list goes on. The bigotry by indoctrinated ideological motivated fairfax/national broacaster journalist knows no bounds.
Posted by runner, Thursday, 11 December 2014 11:07:23 AM
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Government has no authority to fund universities and colleges of any kind with tax-money stolen from us. Thus the anti-religious argument is indeed irrelevant.
By funding universities, government creates an artificial competition whereby one cannot even gain employment as a cleaner without formal tertiary degree - not to mention child-care and aged-care, which fathers and mothers, uncles, aunts, sons and daughters, nephews and nieces were practising for millennia without any degree. Real skills are something one is born with - or not. Knowledge was always available to those who are truly interested in studying - how more so today with the accessibility of the internet, with myriad of very cheap or even free courses available. Those who indeed want to learn can easily make the arrangements themselves, as opposed to those who only seek formal recognition through degrees. The sole motivation of the political class is to feed their academic friends within their favourite institutions, so that they depend on them, keep voting for them and teach their young impressionable students to do the same. Posted by Yuyutsu, Thursday, 11 December 2014 11:16:37 AM
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Never mind that most, if not all, of what is promoted as religion, especially by the Centre for Public Christianity, and most of the "theology" and "divinity"(LOL) schools (Ridley College for example) is entirely in the realm of make believe, with no basis in Reality.
Its "creator"-God being the invention/projection of an essentially childish, even infantile mommy-daddy emotional disposition. Posted by Daffy Duck, Thursday, 11 December 2014 11:43:53 AM
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"First, to clarify, only a few colleges actually train priests. Most colleges train pastors, hospital chaplains, military chaplains, missionaries, youth workers, overseas aid workers, and social workers. Putting "priests" in the headline might be a big attention grabber, but it is also misleading."
Theological-trained missionaries, youth workers, over seas aid workers, and social workers are more likely to be evangelists and proselytizers, so are essentially priest/preacher-like. Posted by McReal, Thursday, 11 December 2014 11:53:12 AM
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Żes McReal
Theological-trained secularist, warmist, evolutionist, over seas aid workers, and social workers are more likely to be evangelists and proselytizers, and suck on the public purse most their lives. Must conform to the group think especially if you want that tax payer funded job. Posted by runner, Thursday, 11 December 2014 12:20:27 PM
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runner,
Are you alluding to the increased way this govt is contracting religious organisations to provide welfare services? eg. for refugees; women's shelters, the school chaplaincy program; etc Posted by McReal, Thursday, 11 December 2014 12:34:14 PM
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oh, my bad; you can't be a school chaplain if you're a youth worker or social worker
Posted by McReal, Thursday, 11 December 2014 12:35:51 PM
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Dear Daffy,
<<Its "creator"-God being the invention/projection of an essentially childish, even infantile mommy-daddy emotional disposition.>> I could expect better from you. The vast majority of people cannot grasp or benefit directly from the highest non-dualistic Truth of "Aham Brahmaasmi": Most people ARE infantile and DO need a mommy-daddy emotional relationship with God, perhaps for the rest of their life. This is good, it is not wrong, it is not shameful to be an infant: imagining God as creator has helped to uplift billions throughout the ages, helped them build their character and overcome their accumulated guilt. This planet is a school for everyone on all levels, not just for the most advanced. Have you even considered how many disciples created a mommy-daddy emotional relationship with Adi Da Samraj, despite the fact that he never asked for it? This is because we have a human nature, which we must first acknowledge before we can eventually transcend it. Posted by Yuyutsu, Thursday, 11 December 2014 12:46:51 PM
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Seeing that Adi Da was introduced into this topic why not go the whole hog:
A slightly modified quote: "Both exoteric mommy-daddy religion and secular scientific materialism are magic-paranoid and, altogether, anit-ecstatic traditions, rooted in fear of the magical-power potential of the individual human ego. Both have, for many centuries now, been actively instructing, or propagandistically coercing humankind to DISBELIEVE - or, without or apart from the actual experience and the exercise of true discriminative intelligence, to dissociate from all modes of association with magical, and metaphysical, and especially Spiritual, and in general ecstasy-producing ideas and activities. The process of negative indoctrination to which humankind, especially in the Western world, has long been subjected by its sacred and secular "authorities" has, actually, been a magic-paranoid political, social, economic, and cultural effort to enforce a gross "realist", or thoroughly materialist - and, altogether, anti-ecstatic, anti-magical, anti-metaphysical, and anti-Spiritual - model of human life upon all individuals and collectives. This entire effort to idealize the gross physical ego-"I" has required the universal suppression of the actual innate natural, metaphysical, and ultimately Spiritual and ecstatic potential of the psycho-physical ego. But, also, and profoundly more importantly, this anti-ecstatic, anti-magical, anti-metaphysical,anti-Spiritual, and altogether gross-materialist-"realism" enterprise has deprived humankind of its necessary access to Intrinsically egoless Truth Itself" Even while in the case of Christians via their "theological" language games all-the-time mumbling about "Jesus" and the mommy-daddy "creator"-God). http://www.dabase.org/God-As-Creator.htm On the mommy-daddy parental-deity: http://www.aboutadidam.org/readings/parental_deity/index.html Posted by Daffy Duck, Thursday, 11 December 2014 1:21:49 PM
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McReal
'Are you alluding to the increased way this govt is contracting religious organisations to provide welfare services? eg. for refugees; women's shelters, the school chaplaincy program; etc' probably never crossed your mind that much of these welfare organisations have had to be set up largely due to the secular dogmas pushed on our kids from a young age. Funny enough before the secularist trashed the family unit (derived from Christianity) these services were needed far less. Posted by runner, Thursday, 11 December 2014 2:07:59 PM
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Taking into account that the IPA has a wish list re what it wants the government to do and that it has links with Access ministries I would not be surprised if it turns out that the same group of people and interests that have pushed the idea of having christian chaplains in schools (and simultaneously marginalizing secular counselors) are behind this move to change the status of christian tertiary institutions so that they can receive government funding. All part of an effort to "re-christianize" Australian society.
Posted by Daffy Duck, Thursday, 11 December 2014 5:30:52 PM
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Dear Daffy,
Thank you for the links: I have read and understood. However, you can't just tell someone off the street: "Drop your ego", "Stop wishing for continual existence or immortality", "Stop seeing yourself as separate from others"... OK, here I tell you to do the above and unlike the fellow off the street you are even advantaged to be learned and believe so yourself, that my advise/instruction is correct.... So... have you done as I told you already? Have you dropped you ego? Have you stopped wishing for continual existence or immortality? Have you stopped seeing yourself as separate from others? If not, why not? You see my friend, it's not as easy, not even for you with all your studies. Religion is a long process, it takes more than a lifetime (unless of course you already spent quite a few already in conscious efforts to come closer to God), and exoteric efforts and disciplines are an essential part of that path, or rungs on that ladder. The factual correctness of a religious belief is unimportant - what's important about it is the motivation and inspiration for the devotee to grind down their ego, still using certain parts of their ego to shatter other parts, then subtler parts to shatter the former and so on. The root of the ego does not dissolve this way, but finally only through the grace of God and/or Guru. But it first has to be cut to size, as exoteric religion first uses Rajas to transform Tamas, followed by advanced esoteric methods that use Sattva to transform Rajas. It's only at the final stage that Shri Krishna's instruction to Arjuna to transcend even the Sattva Guna can occur by the grace of God: trai-gunya-visaya veda nistrai-gunyo bhavarjuna nirdvandvo nitya-sattva-stho niryoga-ksema atmavan - "The Vedas deal mainly with the subject of the three modes of material nature. O Arjuna, become transcendental to these three modes. Be free from all dualities and from all anxieties for gain and safety, and be established in the self". http://vedabase.net/bg/2/45/en2.php Posted by Yuyutsu, Thursday, 11 December 2014 7:26:13 PM
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Simple, tax the church and all it's offshoots, problem solved.
Geoff Posted by Geoff of Perth, Friday, 12 December 2014 1:59:09 AM
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