The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > Article Comments > Muslim communities must face up to bad apples > Comments

Muslim communities must face up to bad apples : Comments

By Tanveer Ahmed, published 15/8/2014

This is outlined by Danish psychologist Nicolai Sennell's groundbreaking work visiting Muslim criminals in jail, where he makes reference to the Arab notion of 'holy anger', which is completely foreign to English.

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. ...
  6. 10
  7. 11
  8. 12
  9. Page 13
  10. 14
  11. All
Dear LEGO,

You assume that people in general and Muslims in particular, are rational beings. This makes for nice logical riddles ("a third of the island's population tell the truth, a third lies and a third alternates... what question should you ask to find whether an islander is a lier..."), but has no basis in the reality of human behaviour, which isn't black-and-white either.

In reality, people who consider themselves Muslim may not believe everything that is written in the Koran - although some could well believe that they believe... In practice, people can be quite selective even when it makes no logical sense.

Also, as I mentioned earlier, even people who do believe that the Koranic promise of heaven is true, may choose to follow their good conscience instead and be peaceful even if they believe that by that they forego and forfeit their place in heaven.

Now we don't even know who wrote the Koran - and if so which version!
They say it was Muhammad, but was it? was the Koran unedited? Then which interpretation is correct... if any?

Sheikhs and Imams too are clever people: whatever Muhammad's original intention was (which we are unlikely to find out), they have the capacity to interpret the texts in any way the like - and they do. Those who are full of hatred (most likely for socio-economic reasons that have nothing to do with religion) will emphasise hatred and those who are full of love will emphasise compassion.

You say that it only happens in Dar es Salaam, but we do recently hear the voices of Australian and American Imam's who object to terrorism, FGM, child-marriage, etc. Here is a random selection:

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/australian-islamic-leaders-call-for-an-end-to-hatred-and-provocation-claim-radical-group-hizb-uttahrir-is-tarnishing-religions-reputations/story-fni0cx12-1226968293235?nk=87722d0a8a9beaf3bb59243b1bd70d2f

http://www.mmg.com.au/local-news/shepparton/imam-condemns-iraq-violence-1.74895

http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/promoting_islamic_non_violent_solutions/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/27/AR2007072701863.html

http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/answering_questions_from_american_muslims/
Posted by Yuyutsu, Sunday, 24 August 2014 12:55:16 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Gee, what a nice person you are, Yuyutsu.

A billion people want to kill you because their God commands it, but you want so desperately to think that they are really nice people.

The leading "moderate" Muslim organisations in Australia were invited to attend a meeting with Australia's Prime Minister so that he could explain our new terrorism laws and they just gave him the finger. They think that the only extremists around is Tony Abbot. The "moderate" Muslim organisations in Australia approached the PM previously to lobby to exempt Muslims from voting as voting is against Islam.

Sheik al Hilaly was once feted as a "moderate" Muslim who's smiling face could be seen on Sydney's newspapers publically promoting multiculturalism, and saying how we were all one big happy family. Hilaly was sacked for his private comments in which he continuously praised suicide bombers, called Jews "pigs", attacked Australians, and blamed the "cat meat" 70 Australian girls who were gang raped by Muslim race hate rape packs for their own rapes.

Muslims have a vested interest in continuing Muslim immigration into Australia. They do not want to give the game away that they are a serious danger to our community, which they intend to overthrow and put in it's place a religious totalitarian system. So they tell the hot heads to cool it before even people as chronically tolerant as you are figure out how dangerous they really are. Because if even people like you woke up, then Australia would do the smart thing and stop accepting any more Muslim immigrants for our own security.

Tell ya what, Yuyutsu. When those "moderate" Muslim organisations come out publically and say that apostates and critics of Islam should not be murdered, then I might give whatever they say some credibility.
Posted by LEGO, Monday, 25 August 2014 7:12:06 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Dear LEGO,

It may well be that A billion people want to kill me because they (stupidly) believe that their god commands it, but I rub my eyes to hear that YOU, of all reasonable people, believe so as well!

I firmly believe that neither God nor any other god wants people to kill me, yet if I ever did believe that God wants it, then I would happily give my life according to His wish.

Yes, there are such people who call themselves 'Muslim' who are indeed dangerous, who indeed want to do the bad things you mentioned, in Australia just as they already do in those places they do control: but why should YOU believe them, that these phoney pretenders are indeed what they claim - "Muslims"? Do you realise that the word 'Islam' is a derivative of 'Salaam' - PEACE?

These are political/tribal/cultural issues, which you are welcome to discuss here and elsewhere and may very well want Australia to take prompt defensive action about, but don't you buy into their story as if this is 'religious' - it is not! God never told them any of that! (and I still want to investigate whether Mohammed did)

<<The "moderate" Muslim organisations in Australia approached the PM previously to lobby to exempt Muslims from voting as voting is against Islam.>>

I fully support their pledge and I wonder why you don't!

While other issues you mentioned are matters of security and need to be dealt with, I am unable to see how abstaining from voting could possibly be a security threat!

In fact, why should ANYONE be forced to vote if they do not wish to do so, how more so if it is against their religious or ethical convictions? A demand that people should go out and do something whether they like it or not, or else be punished for simply staying in bed that day, harming nobody, smells of the same fanaticism of which you accuse those calling themselves 'Muslims', who would cut off people's hands for staying in bed, failing to attend the mosque services.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Monday, 25 August 2014 8:50:25 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The issue is, that the God of the Muslims has instructed his followers through his holy Koran and his prophets Hadiths (sayings) that non Muslims must convert to Islam or be killed. The Ku Klux Klan is a danger to African Americans because it's ideology supports the idea that African Americans are inferior and violence towards African Americans is justified to keep negroes in their place. Only a very small minority of Ku Klux Klansmen involve themselves in violence towards African Americans, the rest just approve of it, support it, look the other way, or refuse to give evidence against fellow Klansmen where they know that Klansmen have engaged in violence towards negroes. That makes all Ku Klux Klansmen a danger to all African Americans.

Now, apply the same logic to Muslims. The Muslim God instructs his folowers to kill non Muslims unless they convert. He also says that those who kill non Muslims are a higher grade of Muslims (Ghazis), and those who die killing non Muslims (Jihadis) are the highest grade of Muslims.

Only a very small minority of Muslims want to be Ghazis or Jihadis, but their religion demands that the majority respect them as better Muslims than the majority. That the majority of Muslims support the highest grade of Muslims in their murderous intent can be recognised in the opposition by all "moderate" Muslims to counter terrorism laws. They do not want these laws because they would make it harder for the highest grade of Muslim to kill you.

I have a book by the British police officer responsible for catching the London Underground bombers who said he found it "strange" that the "moderate" British Muslims did not inform on the bombers before the event. He said it must have been obvious what was going on because the mixing of the
volatile chemicals caused the bombers skin and hair to whiten and their family and friends must have noticed. It all makes sense when you realise that all Muslims approved of the bombing and would not inform on the very finest Muslims who kill infidels.
Posted by LEGO, Sunday, 31 August 2014 4:11:05 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Dear LEGO,

What you are describing is a social issue, not a religious one:

Do you in fact believe that the God of the Muslims has instructed his "followers" anything whatsoever, good or bad, through his holy Koran? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know, you yourself believe that this Muslim god does not even exist!
Posted by Yuyutsu, Sunday, 31 August 2014 9:09:47 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I enjoyed reading your post Tanveer and I agree with your analysis. I hope you have more opportunity to express your views more widely.

As an outside observer there seems to me to be an enormous amount of pressure on muslims to conform to a narrative that 'externalises all blame'. There seems to me to be a lot of pressure on muslims to conform generally and I have long recognised the role culture (particularly strongly religious cultures) play in affecting how people view the same issue.

I have also noticed the tendency of muslims who I have known over the years to accept everything that happens to them as a god's will and therefore they are very unwilling to do anything to change their circumstances, such as getting married later and have fewer children.

I am hopeful that one of the benefits of living in Australia will be that more muslims are free to question aspects of their faith/cultural traditions like that BBC correspondent who has recently decided to not cover her hair anymore.
Posted by Farquhar, Sunday, 31 August 2014 2:09:12 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. ...
  6. 10
  7. 11
  8. 12
  9. Page 13
  10. 14
  11. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy