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The Forum > Article Comments > The whale in the room > Comments

The whale in the room : Comments

By Debbie Garratt, published 11/7/2014

The bewildering aspect of it to me is that a single whale takes up 10 minutes of my news watching time yet when figures about late term abortions of viable healthy babies are released, nobody wants to talk about it.

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Perhaps if the people attempting to save the whale had been required to take it home and look after if for eighteen years, they might have been a bit less enthusiastic, do you think? But the nice thing about whales is that once they get back in the sea they can look after themselves. Babies can't; so the decision whether or not to have a child rests quite rightly on the person whose body it currently occupies and who will have the responsibility of looking after and raising it.

If you and your religiously-inclined friends were prepared to offer, say, $100,000 to any expectant mother as a reward for keeping and raising her child, I'm sure that would make a significant difference. But none of you seem to be ready to do that; it's always other people's money and other people's time that you feel should be sacrificed to the sanctity of your views. How about you put your money where your mouths are?
Posted by Jon J, Friday, 11 July 2014 7:22:38 AM
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ITS FUNNY*[no not you/but me
i got a whale tweeter message in my INBOX this morning
but last nigHT WATCHED it be set free

POINT BEING YES THIS WHALE ISSIE
vesus the other issue/where since the vietnam war
over 50 million yanki born kids murder by aboRTION[but its mainly blacks africans hispanics/in an effort to cll them down/by feiging to care ye doing murder

by teir works will we know them
Posted by one under god, Friday, 11 July 2014 8:10:55 AM
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'Perhaps if the people attempting to save the whale had been required to take it home and look after if for eighteen years, they might have been a bit less enthusiastic, do you think? '

Jon J with the usual dogma that comes for those justifying murdering babies. He of course knows how many are waiting for adoption.
Posted by runner, Friday, 11 July 2014 9:15:59 AM
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It would be much more preferable in not conceiving in the first place.
Posted by ateday, Friday, 11 July 2014 9:20:47 AM
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...My view on this subject is probably a little left-field. I wish people would put similar enthusiasm shown towards whales, into caring about the declining shark populations.

...As an aside for an anecdotal view of the whale population on the east coast of Australia, they are now so prevalent as to be a boating hazard.
Posted by diver dan, Friday, 11 July 2014 10:26:00 AM
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Be assured, Ms Garrett, it isn't just your hobby-horse that goes missing from the "news".

You can sit through a whole thirty minutes of your average "nightly news" broadcast, and be entirely unaware of the plight of Syrian refugees...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/08/women-head-quarter-syrian-refugee-families

...or the trauma in Iraq...

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/19/world/meast/iraq-refugee-statistics/

...and so on.

Of course, I wouldn't dream of being so uncharitable, as to ascribe your choice of news-gone-missing to your religious beliefs.

But I'd come close.
Posted by Pericles, Friday, 11 July 2014 12:59:42 PM
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In the Old Testament the god of that era mandated murder for all sorts of reasons such as, for example, being a servant in the household of a member of an unbelieving tribe or being a couple doing what comes naturally in the wrong circumstances.

We either learn to live, in suitable numbers, within the limits imposed by our environment or we all be doomed. Either the technologies of energy and family management come to the rescue of the human race or the author and her heirs, runner, One Under God, and the younger generations will go the way of the Dodo. And, it won't be pleasant.
Posted by Foyle, Friday, 11 July 2014 2:22:39 PM
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Whales, unlike humans, are not in plague proportions.
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 11 July 2014 5:07:27 PM
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There are 40 something million people driven from their land(refugees)
at the moment, all caused by too many people, all needing land and
resources to survive.
They are attacked by the wolves dressed up
in the sheep's clothing of religion, who deny contraception and cause
the over-population resulting in not enough survival resources like
land etc. to go round in the first place.

In the absence of contraception in these countries abortions should
be allowed to mothers who want them in the very early weeks of
pregnancy if they already have 4 or more children and choose not to
have any more.

I would agree however that I don't much like the idea of abortion
after 4months.
Posted by CHERFUL, Friday, 11 July 2014 6:52:41 PM
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That is demonstrably untrue, Debbie Garratt...

"The bewildering aspect of it to me is that a single whale takes up 10 minutes of my news watching time yet when figures about late term abortions of viable healthy babies are released, nobody wants to talk about it."

unless you regard yourself as a nobody?

I can assume that you take cold comfort in the fact of the "Maternal, Perinatal, Child and Adolescent Mortality report" being in the public domain.

There would be even less to talk about if it wasn't.
Posted by WmTrevor, Friday, 11 July 2014 7:04:57 PM
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Is Mise:

Well if whales ain't in plague proportions, then it is permanent Whale "Peak-Hour" where I live! Cheers.
Posted by diver dan, Saturday, 12 July 2014 11:31:54 AM
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Perhaps if television companies showed pictures of healthy, viable babies being dismembered alive on our evening news feed we would get a bigger response. Because this is the reality of it. Late term abortion is the dismembering and removal of a healthy, viable baby from the uterus, just weeks before it is due to be born.
I have no objection to early abortion, at a time when the foetus is a non viable blob, but late term abortion is simply another term for murder.
These babies could either be allowed to go to full term, or induced early, and given up for adoption to one of the thousands of couples waiting for a child.
To kill them at such a late stage denotes a degree of selfishness and egoism that leaves me stunned.
Posted by Big Nana, Saturday, 12 July 2014 12:03:25 PM
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Debbie:
Whales and indeed, all ocean going mammals experience extreme difficulties, when they're out of the water, due to their own weight and gravity!
Whales for example,experience extreme difficulty in breathing.
Also their skin needs to remain wet to prevent cracking, that would then allow some, lethal for them pathogens,unimpeded entry.
I can think of no Doctor, that would assist any late term abortion of a viable baby, unless there was an urgent medical reason!
Like tissue rejection that could kill both the infant and the mother! Apart from that, and on abortion in general, which I disagree with on ethical grounds and the availability of various contraception choices, the real choice?
Women who have been violated, the subject of rape or incest, or underage or forced marriage, ought to have an option to access legal abortion.
Particularly, where going full term, would permanently ruin their future prospects.
In the third world many woman die in childbirth, mainly because their pelvis is too small, and where a Cesarean is just not an available choice, nor indeed, the drugs that stop internal hemorrhaging!
Worse is the gang rape of prepubescent girls, which leaves them alive, but with their little wombs so damaged, as to prevent them ever being able to conceive as adults!
This tells me Debbie, that we must inculcate choice as an inviolable right!
If only to stop very ignorant people, or just your usual rabid control freak, from focusing on the wrong things, for all the wrong reasons!
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Saturday, 12 July 2014 12:11:59 PM
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Well said Rhosty.
As a midwife for many years, I never saw any late term abortions, although I have heard some do happen for medical reasons.
The main ones I know of were when a life-threatening condition, or severe abnormality/illness occurred in either the mother or the baby.

Sometimes, some mothers refuse scans until later in their pregnancies, only to find the baby has some awful abnormality that will cause it to die soon after birth.
Parents often can't bear to carry that baby until term, and it is not up to people like this author to judge them.

The rare termination of pregnancies of about 20 weeks onwards are born 'normally' by induction, and not 'torn apart' as some over-emotional right-to-lifers would have you believe.

I hope they never have to suffer the torment of deciding whether to carry a severely disabled baby to term, or end the pregnancy early. Or deciding whether to take a punt on death for mum, or risk going on with the pregnancy to term. Some pregnant women with severe mental health illnesses have to end pregnancies to save their lives.

No one else has the right to decide these things except for the parents and their doctor.
It is no one else's business, and it is safe and legal.
Choice is something Australian women will always have regarding abortion.
Posted by Suseonline, Saturday, 12 July 2014 4:10:44 PM
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Come on, Suse, never heard of late term abortions for reasons other than medical ones ;never heard of/seen a last minute knitting needle job?
Posted by Is Mise, Saturday, 12 July 2014 5:27:25 PM
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No I haven't Is Mise, have you?
One thing is for sure, I know this subject pretty well.

Women these days don't need to resort to knitting needles thank goodness.
If abortion was ever made illegal or unavailable though, no doubt it would happen again.
Far better to prevent unwanted pregnancies in the first place...
Posted by Suseonline, Saturday, 12 July 2014 6:30:19 PM
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Far better to prevent unwanted pregnancies in the first place..
Suseonline,
YES !
Prevention is better than cure. The trouble is cure has a deeper money trough & it is more attractive for the snouts.
The Public Service is like that.
Posted by individual, Saturday, 12 July 2014 10:17:42 PM
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@rhrosty and suseonline... I don't understand the denial of late term abortions for other than medical reasons. Are you suggesting that the abortion providers are providing false information or that the government department is misreporting the data... And has been for many years? What possible purpose would there be for that?

Late term abortions for psychosocial reasons have been consistently at least 50% or higher than abortions for congenital abnormality for a decade. These abortions are not for medical reasons of the unborn child or the mother. Abortions for those reasons would be recorded separately.

I never understand the hostility toward people simply presenting the facts, fully substantiated. I know they are difficult to hear, but surely that in itself is meaningful. Look at the numbers. Between 3 and 4 late term abortions for psychosocial reasons every week of the year in Victoria alone.
Posted by Debbie Garratt, Saturday, 12 July 2014 10:22:42 PM
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I'm sorry Debbie, but I have to disagree.
While I personally never saw or knew of any late term non-medically related abortions, I realise they do happen...rarely.

' Psycho-social' reasons are predominantly mental health problems.
Are you suggesting mental health problems are not medical reasons for late term abortions?

Did every one of the very few late term (3rd trimester...after 30 weeks gestation) abortion women really explain their reasons for such a procedure?
The only person they need to explain this to is their doctor, and the doctor is not always allowed to disclose these reasons.

Maybe these women didn't even tell the truth behind their need for these really awful late term abortions. How would you know?
So, you are making really big assumptions here aren't you?

You decide what you want to do with your own body, and give other women the same choice.
Posted by Suseonline, Sunday, 13 July 2014 1:23:10 AM
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Suse,

You claim to have never heard of a knitting needle being used for very late term abortion yet you say that women no longer need to have resort to this tactic, so it seems that you must have heard of it.

I have seen a perfectly formed still born baby, dead from a small puncture in the cranium, I was only the driver of the jeep that rushed the mother to a Field Hospital but I saw the dead baby and talked to the nurses; they were not happy.
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 13 July 2014 8:21:20 AM
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' Psycho-social' reasons are predominantly mental health problems.
Suseonline,
Yes again & they're policy/authority induced but we never get hear from those bureau rats responsible do we ? They can get people into great difficulty with impunity & their victims get persecuted. Ah yes we live in the greatest country on earth. Actully we do, it's the many Left Wing morons who are ruining it for all of us including themselves but they're too stupid to see it. Do they perhaps get off on some perverse, masochistic sense of satisfaction by seeing everything wrecked ?
Posted by individual, Sunday, 13 July 2014 8:25:01 AM
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@suseonline. There is no evidence to support a claim that mental health problems make up even a significant proportion of psychosocial abortions. In Victoria there is no requirement to report a specific reason so we wouldn't know, however if we look at those places where reasons are reported, this isn't the case.

Having said that, if in fact this large number of women were presenting mentally ill, we need to question why an abortion provider is assessing and 'treating' them with an abortion, rather than them being treated for their mental health issue. I have worked on an acute mental health facility where mentally ill people have presented demanding that a finger or leg be removed, yet we don't send them to an orthopaedic surgeon for assessment and treatment. What does this say about their rights and bodily autonomy?

The fact is that abortion is not just another 'health' issue, otherwise it would be dealt with using similar guidelines, but it isn't. There is also no evidence at all that termination has a mental health benefit, yet vast and growing evidence that it can have a negative mental health impact, especially at these later stages of pregnancy.
Posted by Debbie Garratt, Sunday, 13 July 2014 9:35:37 AM
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There is also no evidence at all that termination has a mental health benefit,
Debbie Garratt,
I don't know what world you live in because in mine not having to worry about an unwanted child counts pretty big in the mental well-being of women.
Don't you ever think of others as not being as fortunate as you & therefore are forced to take such drastic measures ? Economics play the most vital part in our lives today & children do cost money & if you don't have the money you get accused of neglecting your child & then some morons from some moron department make your life hell. I have no qualms about an abortion if the outcome is to avoid all the afore-mentioned. Especially the part with the morons.
Posted by individual, Sunday, 13 July 2014 10:53:42 AM
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Is Mise, I repeat, I personally have never dealt with such an abortion, but I know they exist of course. There are many bad people in the world, but that doesn't mean we ban safe, legal abortions.

Debbie, I see where you are coming from, and I am not pro abortion at all. In fact I doubt I could ever have one myself. However, I don't presume to speak for others.

I would respectfully suggest that if a woman and/or her partner request a late term abortion then there must be something terribly wrong in their lives, wouldn't you think?
I would suggest some mental or physical health problems must exist, or else they are just awfully selfish, which must surely be rare.

In any case Debbie, carrying on about the thankfully very few late term abortions is a tactic pro-life supporters often resort to when pushing their anti-abortion barrow, and I would suggest trying to better the health and lives of the many thousands of unwanted children already living in the world today would be a better pursuit...
Posted by Suseonline, Sunday, 13 July 2014 11:15:51 AM
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@suseonline. I don't think the seeking of a late term abortion necessarily stems from selfishness. Having spoken to dozens post abortive women, many late term, there is certainly a sense of desperation and a variety of either non supportive or overtly coercive factors at play. If you consider high levels of anxiety, stress or feelings of helplessness to constitute 'mental health', then yes, these all usually exist. My argument is that we can do more to address the circumstances women face than argue that they need abortion in order to be equal. I don't agree that 3-4 late term abortions every week of the year in one state alone is 'thankfully very few', although that is only my opinion.

Making accurate, evidence based information available about abortion is not 'carrying on' either. This is a way of minimising, ridiculing or marginalising a view just because you don't agree rather than debate the facts.

Whilst researching and educating about the impact of abortion is a big part of my work, so is researching and actively working in the area of meeting women's needs during pregnancy and early parenting. I don't think a person has to be involved in both aspects in order to validate one, it just so happens that I have skills, knowledge and a passion for both
Posted by Debbie Garratt, Sunday, 13 July 2014 5:59:31 PM
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@individual. I have lived with the terrible stigma of teenage and single parenthood, and with the challenge of counting every cent and often finding they didn't quite add up to what was necessary. It was terrible, and it shouldn't be that hard. It shouldn't have been that hard for me and it shouldn't be that hard for any woman today. When women are having abortions out of economic desperation, or to keep a job or because they're told to choose between motherhood and an education, we should be doing a lot more about it than offering abortion as the solution.

The evidence also doesn't support a claim that abused children were necessarily unwanted or that women who considered abortion but chose to parent are any more likely to abuse their children, so your argument (albeit a common one) doesn't have any basis in reality.
Posted by Debbie Garratt, Sunday, 13 July 2014 6:05:19 PM
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Hi Debbie, thanks for that, but I still don't believe late term abortions are that much of a problem in Australia.

As a midwife in both public and private hospitals, and given that late term terminations are usually done by inducing birth, not 'tearing babies apart' as is often portrayed by pro-life activists, I would have thought I would have come across more than I have?

I see you are a director of Real Choices.
What can you guys bring to the issue that a woman's own doctor or midwife can't?
Are you all affiliated with the Catholic Church, or any other religious organisation?

I would prefer that women with an unwanted pregnancy were counselled by health professionals without hidden agendas....
Posted by Suseonline, Sunday, 13 July 2014 7:38:11 PM
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@suseonline Thanks for your questions.. You are correct that it is important that accurate information about abortion be provided. Later term abortions result in the delivery of an intact baby. Earlier gestation terminations are undertaken in a way that does remove the foetus from the uterus in pieces.

With the number of late term abortions sitting at the current rate, and undertaken within a very few hospitals or private clinics, I would't expect a lot of midwives to have been exposed to them. The majority of late term abortions in Victoria (particularly for psychosocial reasons) were undertaken in a single private clinic in Melbourne, not in hospitals, as is the case in most states.

Real Choices Australia has no religious, political or ideological association affiliations. We receive no money from any such group, however we would welcome donations from any group as long as it didn't come with strings to compromise our work. We have run a very successful and highly regarded symposium every year that has been attended by people from a wide range of groups and differing ideologies. Our online training is also undertaken by people with all sorts of affiliations and beliefs.

We make our information accessible to the general community, researchers, educators, politicians and health professionals and the media in a way that no other organisation does, as opposed to providing specific information to an individual woman as would be the case with a doctor or midwife.

We do not provide counselling to women; we do provide training to other people who provide counselling including GPs, psychologists, mental health nurses, midwives and lay volunteers from the prolife and other sectors. We don't discriminate in the provision of our services on the basis of profession or ideology (or anything else of course).

Hopefully that covers all your questions and I'm still within the word limit!
Posted by Debbie Garratt, Monday, 14 July 2014 9:07:02 AM
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http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/world/drugaddicted-mother-killed-six-babies-to-avoid-raising-them-police-say-20140709-zt167.html

That's just plain mad.
Posted by individual, Monday, 14 July 2014 1:16:00 PM
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Dear new age Feminists, this issue will not fade away as you hope, the media black out on late term abortion can't last forever, eventually someone with some moral rigidity will take a stand as has been the case throughout history; The arc of the moral universe in this particular instance seems to be long but it WILL bend towards justice.

No one that sees a 4D UltraSound can call a pregnancy a blob of tissue anymore.
Posted by BillRiz, Monday, 14 July 2014 6:49:27 PM
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Thanks Debbie, I will certainly use your website myself.
It does have some sound information.

I hope we get to a stage where there are NO abortions at all, however I think we need much more effective contraception for both men and women before that can happen.

One thing is for sure though, it is no one else's business what a woman decides about her pregnancy except the father and her doctor, unless she asks for help.

Billriz may be looking to go back to the 'good ol' days' when women were either forced to go through with unwanted pregnancies, or they died trying to have an abortion, but those days are long gone...
Posted by Suseonline, Monday, 14 July 2014 7:42:18 PM
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Suseonline very backwards thinking on your behalf; Its funny how easily feminists preach the travesty of patriarchy, referencing backyard abortions before the sexual revolution and the right of women before the Great War yet you call us old fashioned?

Outside of this juvenile rhetoric, the fact remains that clean instruments are used even in backyard operations in Mexico and more importantly IT IS society's business if we are forced to pay for the terminations of the living unborn, especially when they are healthy & viable.

Have a look over those naive lecturer notes from nursing school with its units in feminist theory and tell me you haven't been duped by a selfish society.
Posted by BillRiz, Monday, 14 July 2014 8:14:45 PM
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'No one that sees a 4D UltraSound can call a pregnancy a blob of tissue anymore. ' Yep the Nazis failed to see the Jews as humans. Same situation. Just change the termilogy in order to keep conscience seared.
Posted by runner, Monday, 14 July 2014 8:18:23 PM
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To home in on one's faith is a clear distraction from the real issue of aborting unborn babies. People religiously save whales and trees from termination. The point of the article is why humanity is not interested in saving its own; at full term it becomes a matter of infanticide. How is the medical fraternity not held accountable as foreign ships are on the high seas or chainsaws in the forest? As it is, doctors are wrongly threatened if they do not abort. It is the distorted belief of supporting one but ignoring the other (being human life no less) that makes such comments of utmost importance to the health and welfare of our society.
Posted by Longy, Monday, 14 July 2014 8:35:32 PM
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FROM
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=5975&page=0

i thought it..may help..to find the place,where the unborn fetus go
http://new-birth.net/booklet/Gone_West.pdf
pdf page..60
page 48..proper

<<..I found..we were in a
kind of crèche,..where all the immature..and premature children went.

“‘How soon may it be said..that a soul comes into existence
when a child is conceived?’ I inquired...‘It is evidently not at birth.’

My guide replied,..‘Even I cannot tell you the precise moment when the soul..enters the fleshy home..which clothes it..but it is extraordinarily early...[gray-streak stage]

*As soon..as the germ has..definitely ceased to be a germ
and has begun to grow..into a human body,..then..a soul enters it.

But we do not know..how God performs this wonder.
That is hid,..even from us to whom much is plain.

Of this..at least..you can be sure..that long before the child “quickens,”..a soul has become enshrined in it.’

“I now directed..my attention to the scene around me,
and saw that the creche..was full
of gentle,..sweet-faced women..who watched over the little immature atoms.....

We passed to other rooms,..and found that in each new one..the babes were more advanced..than in the last.
At length we reached a long room..with a table down the middle. ..his was the one
you saw in the mirror,..and I gathered it was..the ‘top form’..[graduation room used..prior to leaving]..of the school.

“Here I met Sister Maria,..whom I greatly liked,..but found she was so much more spiritual than I..that it was difficult to keep in touch with her...‘Do you have a chapel with
continuous service?’ I asked.
“‘Oh yes’” she replied... ‘“Work and pray.”..You know the old monastic proverb.’

edited

This is not a House of Refuge,..and no lost
souls from Hell come here..to pollute this happy spot.

The children..are borne here..by their
guides,,or guardian angels,..who though they have no work to do on earth,..yet have the same sort of work..as any of us here.

Generally,..if possible,..a relative of the “dead” child
is brought,..*if suitable,..to mother it;

but,alas,..many have no such relatives here.

They..(the relatives)..are often too evil to be permitted..to help.

No evil thing..is admitted/within these
walls,..although it stands..in Hell...>>..

ps/those/cutting-up;babIES/TO to page
Chapter/XXII..A~“Hospital”~in Hell...134
http://new-birth.net/booklet/Gone_West.pdf
Posted by one under god, Monday, 14 July 2014 9:29:44 PM
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it WILL bend towards justice
BillRiz,
Whose Justice ? The justice of those hypocrites who criticise others because they can't afford to keep an unwanted child or the justice of those who are unselfish enough not to bring a child into a world of misery ?
Evolution has not yet given humans a natural contraceptive so humans have to take drastic measures. If some people see it as a right to use modern medicine as an aid for females to get pregnant when nature fails then it should really work the other way round also !
Posted by individual, Monday, 14 July 2014 10:13:35 PM
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Billriz, are you a nurse?
If not, how would you know what is taught to us?
Certainly not 'feminism' anyway! Lol!

I hear you about having your taxes go to the health dept to 'pay' for public hospital patients abortions. I get just as annoyed with my taxes going to pay for smoker's preventable diseases and illnesses too, but I realise I am part of a bigger world than just my own.

In any case, abortion is safe and available in hospitals here in Australia, and it will stay that way.
Hopefully contraception will eventually stop the need for abortion, but something tells me you wouldn't be an advocate for contraception either...
Posted by Suseonline, Tuesday, 15 July 2014 1:02:33 AM
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suss-ONLINE..<<..II get just as annoyed/with my taxes going to pay for smoker's/preventable diseases..and illnesses too,..but I realise I am part of a bigger world..than just my own.>>s

dear suss one;/stop trolling;off topic

we smokers get taxed BILLIONS[ITS EXPEcted in 3 years we will pay 32 biLLION IN SIN TAXES[WHICH IS HILARIOUS;as govt only spends only 28 billion ON..*ALL MEDICAL hospitalisation/emergENCY/ETC costs

THE COSTS OF SMOKing..are acually costed
800 MILLION= THE COST OF US SMOKERS..DYING IN YOUR TENDER MERCIES.

MOST of US ARE SO despised/..WE ARE PUT OUT OF OUR Misery sooner rather than later[but usually they liKE TO CUT THEM OPEN/THEN LET HOSPITAL STAPH do the nurse cratzhit joB]

MATE SO MAY TIMES YOU HAVE SPEWED YOUR biased bile re smokers
THAT YOU HAVE BECOME THE joke]..please educate your selF ON THE FACTS
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6196&page=8

<<>.In any case, abortion is safe and available in hospitals here in Australia, and it will stay that way.>>

fuNNY HOW MOST ARE POOR./BLACK?
[in usa WELL OVER 60 MILLION MURDED BY ABORTION/SINCE VIETNAM
[if we played games with THAT LOST REVENUE OF THE 50 MILLION TAX PAYERS LOST BY medical malfeasance/we enter trillioNS FOREGONE*/BY Acts of murder

but worse/my freaking tax is paying you to murder/the living
you have no concept of how huge that is

PLEASE READ THE HOSPITAL IN HELL IN GONE WEST LINKS PSTED EARLIER
the vivisection bit/i will leavE YOU TO IT.[I KNOW YOU NEEDED TO .HARDEN;-YOURSELF TO IT..[but you becomE/UNTHINKING STONE...oR PAID TROLL[but WITH SUCH PASSION TO KILL?

AND blame others for smoking
get drunk sue/i expected more of you.
but ITS CLEAR YOUR deaf/and shamed;AND GUILTY EARS GO DEAF
[some say that GOD HAS MADE THEM blind;of mercy/cause the collective guilt of these unspoKEN MASS MURDERS AMMOUNT TO malfeasence;EVEN RACIAL-genocide*

IN ISRAEl/the aborted;palisteins..out weight the aborTed jew 5 tIMES
AND the colonized race is allways multiples/of the invader species preditating upon them./..et u..yet again.
Hopefully contraception will eventually stop the need for abortion, but something tells me you wouldn't be an advocate for contraception either...
Posted by one under god, Tuesday, 15 July 2014 8:07:39 AM
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Suseonline I know exactly whats currently taught on the curriculum during a nursing degree, when exactly did you graduate? Interesting how keen some are to throw ProLifers into the religious basket, ProLife Atheists are part of the biggest growing political group in the United States, sounds to me like there are some very new advocates in this place. Its a juvenile fallacy to assume none of us have agendas and that agenda is wrong. Even if I was Pope Francis writing this, my opinion is valid perhaps even more valid for contribution.

In saying that, I've got no problem with contraception but at the moment of conception SCIENCE tells us that a unique life is created. Its funny that liberal-progressive groups like Planned-Parenthood now refuse to answer when life begins and have instructed spokespeople to not frame debate around embryology anymore.
Posted by BillRiz, Tuesday, 15 July 2014 11:33:42 AM
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BILLS QUOTE..<..In saying that, I've got no problem with contraception but..at the moment of conception SCIENCE..tells us that a unique life is created...>>

YES/THE SECOND DS AFTER PENITARTIOn/of the egg head/by the sperm
[THE 13 TH SPERM GETS IN[SEE EGG MEMBRANES/AS LOOSE/and the force of 12 pushing sperm/tensions the eGG MEMBRANE JUST RIGHT AND LONG ENOUGH T=FOR THE DNA TO GET IN

YOU LIVING[all life living/lives because
they arrived/13-th]..not cause they'.won'

<<.Its funny that liberal-progressive groups like Planned-Parenthood now refuse to answer when life begins and have instructed spokespeople to not frame debate around embryology anymore.>>

life beGAN/LONG AGO/IN THE SPERM
MASterbation kills off millions/of living sperm

its genocide;out there
but it gets worse/SEE THE SEEDs that made ya daily bread;were life too

THEN YA DAILY MEAT/UNFERTILISED CAGED EGGS
THIS realm belongs to the sataniC FORCES[TO LIVE WE must continualy kill~!>.

anyhow/ONCE THE PRIMIATIVE STRAK FORMS into a disk/its soul is created/and natural aborTION/IS BEING ENHANCED VIA OUR FOODS WATERS ETC/EACH MISSED PERIOD=A CHILD;WAITING TO LOVE you when you get to heaVen

how fast we get there depends on what we choSE TO DO FOR OTHER
HELP THEM OR URT THEM..its insane tO IMPLY GUILT WHEN LIFE Is eternal

if ya cant FACE THE PROBLEM;TODAY
IT CAN WAIT TILL YA DEAD/ITS CALLED KARMA;BUT THERE IS WOrse karma/making people feel wORSE/WE GET WORSE..read the section ..on how the offICER CONDEMED HIS OWN SOUL TO hell[after hE OFFICIALY DIED]

YOU CAN lead a hoarse to water
but ya caNT MAKE THem think;go easy/there but FOR FATE GOES you/me;any of us[and i saY TO YOU;LOVE ONE;AND OTHER/WHO IS NOT THYNE BROTHERs keeper

LOVE IS ALL WE NEED.
Posted by one under god, Tuesday, 15 July 2014 7:55:37 PM
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Not a problem Billriz, you can decide whether you or yours don't want to abort that embryo or not, but just leave the rest of us with that same choice.

I don't care when people think conception actually occurs, because it is legal to have abortions in Australia, and that will never change.
It's time to move on from this boring argument...
Posted by Suseonline, Tuesday, 15 July 2014 8:09:23 PM
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Suse except for the fact that you're in error again. Its NOT legal in Australia, its only been taken out of the criminal code in 2 States and both are very recent.

And soon enough they will be repealed, you can count on it.
Posted by BillRiz, Tuesday, 15 July 2014 9:03:55 PM
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Soon enough Billriz, it will be formally legal to have an abortion in all states and territories, instead of informally, as it is now.

And you can count on that.

Perhaps you would be happier in other countries where men still rule the world, like Afghanistan or Iran?
Posted by Suseonline, Tuesday, 15 July 2014 9:36:07 PM
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