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The Forum > Article Comments > Public schools deserve support now more than ever > Comments

Public schools deserve support now more than ever : Comments

By Michael Kirby, published 22/5/2014

Public education remains one of our greatest achievements, so I would like to outline my 10 commandments for its supporters in 2014.

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Congratulations to the esteemed Michael Kirby for speaking out in support of ongoing investment in public and private education. Australia's multicultural community and a large proportion of the mainstream community rely on high quality public education to shape a prosperous future for themselves and for Australia. In particular newly arrived migrants, indigenous people and the unemployed have no other option than to go to public schools. With the deregulation of higher education fees even middle class Australians may be priced out of good quality public education.
Posted by Macedonian advocacy, Thursday, 22 May 2014 9:57:39 AM
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Michael I did not see any reference to your kids going to a public school. Perhaps your experience is a little distant to be really valuable.

I did see a reference to Gonski, another reason to doubt your recent experience or to worry you may have rose coloured glasses obscuring your vision.

My kids are recent, [5 years] graduates of public schools. My lady also started as a P&C volunteer the school textbook hire scheme at our school, saving parents quite a bit of money, while injecting $170,000 a year into its coffers. This she ran 6 hours a day for 10 years while I was P&C treasurer.

From this close perspective & can say Gonski is nothing but a lefty joke. Our schools will only continue to slide below mediocrity while they are controlled by the teachers union. We now have the largest sheltered workshop group on earth in our schools.

My kids could not have achieved what they did without a great deal of home support, & high level coaching where we could not help, or in fact produce the work in the NEW feminist way.

At least 20% of the teachers were incompetent, could not have done the work they were supposed to be teaching. Math & science were being taught by teachers who could not even do the work.

Until we take back our schools from the union, anymore money spent will be totally wasted. If we don't get rid of the bottom 20% of teachers, there is no hope for our kids.

Take off those rose coloured glasses, & have a look at the real world, outside those selective schools you so admire.

The only real difference between the past you praise, & today, with more money, equipment, facilities & smaller classes is the quality of the teachers.

It really is time to get off the political bandwagon, grow up & call it as it is. Stuffed by Labor & the union.
Posted by Hasbeen, Thursday, 22 May 2014 2:00:58 PM
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Hi there HASBEEN...

Actually Kirby's siblings all attended public schools, therefore one might properly describe them all, as from humble beginnings ? Kirby's father was a marvellous hard working man of great character equally his mother a dignified lady who did her best to bring up the four children quite successfully in my opinion. Further it's my understanding Kirby's brother David is or was, a Barrister, and I'm not sure what either Donald or Diana his other siblings choose vocationally ?

It's Kirby himself that I have little or no respect for, however this is neither the forum, or the appropriate Topic in which to articulate my reason(s) for my position and views on the man himself ?
Posted by o sung wu, Thursday, 22 May 2014 4:41:46 PM
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Hasbeen on another thread, you have already been found out, to not have the creditable knowledge to comment on others!
Posted by Kipp, Thursday, 22 May 2014 6:59:10 PM
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o sung wu you made a comment of your "lack of respect" to Michael Kirby.
By that comment it would indicate you have an ulterior motive, of not clarifying your opinion of Michael Kirby.
With respect, that is a cowards way of demeaning a person without evidence or fact.
Posted by Kipp, Thursday, 22 May 2014 7:08:20 PM
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Kipp,
I could never take to Kirby because he is not a true representative of our society & I therefore conclude that he was not fit to hold the positions (in public life that is) that he was in.
It was whilst he was the highest Judge in the land that some pretty incompetent & unfair Law & Order reigned.
If you can tell me that the CJC in Qld was outside Kirby's jurisdiction then I take some of my words back.
Posted by individual, Thursday, 22 May 2014 7:53:12 PM
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anyone not acknowledging the huge increases in Government expenditure for all schools over the last 20 years is likely to be playing politics. The funding has kept growing while standards keep dropping. Kirby of all people with his qualifications should know that. Maybe paying teachers on results might change a few things. No doubt we have about 20% very good teachers, 60% average and about 20% below par. Obviously the teachers union would draw many of their members from the last group.
Posted by runner, Thursday, 22 May 2014 8:56:16 PM
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KIPP you're obviously unaware of the laws of Defamation ? Am I exhibiting literary cowardice for not clearly articulating my precise criticism or identifying my specific position on Kirby ?

Not for a moment, rather I'd suggest to you that I'd much rather remain somewhat circumspect or judicious, more than likely ? Nor would Mr Graham YOUNG, the proprietor of this august Site, would necessarily thank me, enthusiastically neither ?

Therefore it's for this reason alone, not for some vague altruistic rationale that I might suggest you engage in a spot of reading, firstly the common law as it relates to, Defamatory Statements, or more specifically, the 'Uniform Defamation Act of 2005' that might just assuage your inane curiosity in determining whether or not I'm a literary coward ? If neither of the above seeks to diminish your asinine little enquiry, then obviously I can't help you ?
Posted by o sung wu, Thursday, 22 May 2014 9:37:46 PM
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Thanks for that information o sung wu, I have no objection to being corrected, in fact & am more than happy to learn.

Did you not notice Kipp in my post I said " Perhaps your experience is a little distant". Perhaps you didn't.
Posted by Hasbeen, Friday, 23 May 2014 12:27:55 AM
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The Honourable Michael Kirby is a gentleman, and a great Australian, and any suggestions to the contrary I fear must be ill-founded (or the result of misunderstanding).

Having myself been a product of the NSW public education system I can relate to the views and aspirations outlined in this article for the future of public education.

Let's face it, public education is essential, and it is essential that it provide quality education outcomes.
If it is suffering from the problems some have expressed on this thread, and as indicated by findings of the Gonski review, then such problems need to be addressed as a matter of the highest priority - as the future of very many of our youth will be directly dependent on correcting those problems.

Attending to any perceived deficiencies in public education is both the thrust and the objective, and it must be seen as a noble and a fully justified cause.
Surely the States and Territories have to apply their combined wisdom to the cause of a unified, comprehensive and above all quality public system. To do otherwise is unthinkable.

When is the politicking going to stop, and the hard grind of putting the the national interest first, the interest of building a smarter, innovative Australia going to start?
And, it can only start with a quality foundational public education system.

Consignment of quality education to the private sector would be both a defeat and a gross abrogation of principle and of direct national responsibility.

I commend the article, and its author.
Posted by Saltpetre, Friday, 23 May 2014 3:10:37 AM
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Salty I agree that public schools are very important & need much remedial action.

However the Gonski report was an exercise in socialism, & nothing to do with improving schools.

While we have the feminists in control of the curriculum, dumbing down everything which girls have found hard, there is no chance of improvement of our outcomes. At the same time, while we have the teachers union controlling staffing & conditions, there is no chance of getting rid of the mass of accumulated dead wood in the profession.

I doubt any government would have the guts to do what is needed. The left will just throw money at the problem, pretending that will help. What else does the left ever do?

The right will squib it totally, probably also throwing money at it, & private education will become the only game in town, if you care about your kids.
Posted by Hasbeen, Friday, 23 May 2014 9:35:51 AM
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For public education go west young man go west where parents are running schools and standards are rising.
Stuff the idiot dogooders and academics. They know only refined logic, elitist experience and idiot ideologies.
Posted by imajulianutter, Saturday, 24 May 2014 3:40:34 PM
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I have trouble discerning the virtues of public education that his honour extols.
“A place that did not depend on parental wealth…” Fair enough, but vouchers can accommodate that.

“…and the differences that can bring” If govt funded vouchers can pay for a reasonable education that can offer the student life and vocational skills, then is that not enough? If wealthy parents can afford exceptional education for their children why is it somehow a wrong that the kids from the other side of the tracks don’t also get that? To follow that petty, spiteful argument, is it also a wrong that the poor folks can’t afford to live in the mansions of Toorak and Vaucluse or enjoy regular overseas holidays, or drive flash cars?

“…the aspirations of public education were togetherness,” Don’t private school kids also get together for sport and social events, or is it the govt, who should dictate whom children mix with?

”… helping one another [and] imbibing the principles of the ''fair go''” Yes, but vouchers can do that.

“…and aiming for excellence”, Private schools don’t do that?

“but never forgetting the communitarian values of a place when the mind and heart were still fresh and open” Err…yeah, whatever that means.

“Public education remains one of our greatest achievements” really? Then why the need for the Gonski review last year?
Posted by Edward Carson, Saturday, 24 May 2014 7:13:24 PM
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Public schools are getting more than enough support, it's the public school teachers who syphon off an immoral share of that funding.
I wouldn't mind public school teachers getting a fair amount in salary but they don't, they get way too much for what they give in return.
Posted by individual, Saturday, 24 May 2014 7:34:53 PM
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