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The Forum > Article Comments > Sorry Mr Putin, Ukraine is not for you > Comments

Sorry Mr Putin, Ukraine is not for you : Comments

By Conrad Liveris, published 16/5/2014

Vladimir Putin's behaviour is reminiscent of the dogmatic communists like Stalin and Brezhnev - centralised power that is in our face.

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Sorry Conrad,it is the West who are backing the Nazis in the Ukraine. It was they who over threw a democratically elected Govt of Ukraine.

Putin does not need to invade the Ukraine, he can win the peace via the BRICS nations. They will soon have their own bank and back their currencies with gold.More countries are joining the BRICS.eg Turkey and Saudi Arabia. The international reserve status of the US $ will soon be gone. They cannot continue to pay off their debts via money printing. The market is bigger than all their weapons.

The USA/West cannot win unless they go to war. The money printing continues by the US Fed and tapering is a lie. http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/
Posted by Arjay, Friday, 16 May 2014 7:20:52 AM
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ITS SAD YOUR SO IGNORANT comrade /CONRAD
please get educated

http://tarpley.net/

http://www.activistpost.com/2014/05/ukraine-and-its-position-on-brzezinskis.html

http://news.antiwar.com/2014/05/14/ukraine-opens-peace-plan-talks-no-protesters-allowed/

http://rt.com/news/159168-kiev-businessman-massacre-mariupol/

http://rinf.com/alt-news/breaking-news/rosa-koire-talks-agenda-21-brian-engelman-video/

http://rinf.com/alt-news/breaking-news/can-government-officials-legally-lie/

Russian Finance Minister: We are “preparing a mechanism” that will allow us to dump the dollar in international trade.
http://ftmdaily.com/daily-briefing/051514/

http://investmentwatchblog.com/total-derivatives-exposure-for-top-5-banks-in-the-u-s-290-trillion/

http://xrepublic.tv/node/8907
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/05/13/exclusive_the_pentagon_has_a_plan_to_stop_the_zombie_apocalypse

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/15/greece-tax-idUSA8N0N100620140515

http://investmentwatchblog.com/former-treasury-secretary-tim-geithner-says-obama-admin-asked-him-to-mislead-on-economy-video/

http://www.thelonestarwatchdog.com/2014/05/13/politicians-attack-free-speech-persecute-arrest-demonize-oppostion-much-corruption-hide/

http://investmentwatchblog.com/ww3-u-s-plans-mass-executions-we-dont-stop-ww3-its-over/
Posted by one under god, Friday, 16 May 2014 8:29:44 AM
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There are some articles in OLO that literally leave one speechless. This one however is in a class of its own for sheer ignorance and blind obeisance to the Washington propaganda machine.

The least you can do Graeme is invite a contribution from someone who actually knows about Ukraine and Russia and adds to our understanding and knowledge.

This article is frankly garbage and you do you and your website a disservice by publishing it.
Posted by James O'Neill, Friday, 16 May 2014 11:38:50 AM
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Agreed!
And if any think differently, then the way forward is another, replete with independent observers, free and fair democratic election! As opposed to any of the risible parodies, overseen by heavily armed Russian special forces!?
As I recall, the Nazis murdered some six million innocent Jews, Gypsies and homosexuals! Pretty ruthless, DA?
But nowhere as ruthless as Communist Stalin, who not only murdered 25 million of his own Russian people, but had twice that number incarcerated, for the flimsiest of power hugging reasons?
And all to sadly, in a power hungry Colonel Putin, we have a man who admires and tries to emulate Stalin and his achievements, quite ruthlessly!?
If I'm wrong, then where is the free press?
We in the west can assist a truly peaceful resolution to this alleged conflict! By discontinuing to buy or use any Russian gas or oil!
Easy enough for we Australians, who have plenty of both, and indeed, reserves to possibly equal or exceed the entire known reserves of the Middle East! And recoverable for a lot less than the Russians are paying to extract theirs'!
And never a better excuse or rationale, for finally cracking on with development!
Were we to develop and export this huge resource to Europe and elsewhere, the oil and gas dependent Russian economy, would likely not survive!
Money talks, but in today's oil and gas hungry world, oil and gas talk much louder! DA?
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Friday, 16 May 2014 12:15:26 PM
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Hi James O'Neill

You're obviously a busy man. But "The least you can do" is spell the editor's name correctly.

Its Graham not "Graeme".

Please consider http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/author.asp?id=3 .

Planta
Posted by plantagenet, Friday, 16 May 2014 12:32:00 PM
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Many Eastern Ukrainians, reportedly around two thirds of them, don't want to unite with Russia, but do want more regional autonomy, so they as almost individual states, like say Georgia, have real independence!
And of course a peace loving Colonel Putin, would act to ensure they retained as much autonomy, as say, the aforementioned Georgia!
One recalls the ancient parable, where a leader took sticks and broke them all too easily, one by one.
But with all his effort, might and main, his legendary herculean strength, couldn't break a bundle of them.
And then he roared from the rooftops, united we stand, divided we fall!
It's time young Eastern Ukrainians, started thinking with their heads and their hearts, rather than something much further down!
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Friday, 16 May 2014 12:36:47 PM
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Wow OUG ,Ihor Kolomoisky isn't just any "oligarch" either.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ihor_Kolomoyskyi
If the allegations against him are true this is a really horrible betrayal of European Jewry which could have disastrous consequences for ordinary Jews.
More on the Odessa massacre (contains distressing footage):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZQZ7MspzB8
I actually started to feel physically ill at the point where they show those beautiful young girls making firebombs to burn out the people in the Union building.
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Friday, 16 May 2014 1:00:50 PM
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All this unnecessary and tiresome bagging of Putin coupled with references to ancient parables brings to mind the old saw about gardeners in which it is observed that while you can bring a horticulture you can't make her think.
Posted by halduell, Friday, 16 May 2014 1:15:05 PM
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Liveris is so far removed from political reality that I am prompted to breach my own prohibitions and seek a personal explanation. Is it because Conrad is a champion of LGBT parents(gay dads and lesbian mums), and so hates Putin's puritanical Russia?
Posted by Leslie, Friday, 16 May 2014 1:48:33 PM
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Russia signed a massive natural gas deal with China a few days ago so they don't really need the Ukraine anymore. It seems increasingly likely that debt-free Russia and booming China will be the first to have settlements on Mars.
Posted by progressive pat, Friday, 16 May 2014 2:22:05 PM
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Progressive Pat,
Ah so Brzezinski was right all along!
Putin has to walk a fine line, he's got millions of Russian Nationalists, millions of Liberals, millions of Communists and Millions of Asian Muslims whom he has to keep on side in order to proceed, it's really a more Asian society than it is European in that politics and mass movements actually matter, are widely supported and can get things done.
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Friday, 16 May 2014 2:29:10 PM
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@Progressive Pat
Has your source indicated whether or not the gas deal you mention having been signed between China and Russia was in US dollars?
Posted by halduell, Friday, 16 May 2014 2:36:00 PM
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@Halduell. My understanding is that the Russia/China deal was based on an agreement that each would use their own currency to pay for deals; i.e. bypassing the US$. When one takes into account other measures on the financial front being done with the BRICS and SCO it spells the beginning of the end of US$ hegemony. The implications are enormous and worthy of an article in OLO in its own right.
Posted by James O'Neill, Friday, 16 May 2014 4:53:18 PM
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@James O'Neill while the BRICS and SCO will spell the end of USA/British hegemony, however we don't need a new hegemony initiated by Russia and China.

The way forward for peace and justice on this planet is for every country to have financial sovereignty ie their Govts are allowed to create the new money for growth + inflation debt free from international central banking parasites.

It is the new money that is created as debt that totally enslaves this planet. World GDP = $70 trillion. World phoney derivatives = $700 trillion. Who created all this money from nothing,which enables this phoney economy that drags us all into debt slavery and abject poverty ? 50 million Americans are on food stamps and Tony Abbott has us on their path to poverty.
Posted by Arjay, Friday, 16 May 2014 5:15:09 PM
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James O'Neill's & Arjay,

It's too early to count your chickens, the US and Europe will probably outlast BRICS, SCO and any other acronyms that are invented by authors trying to promote their latest theories and books.
In 20 years nobody will remember BRICS, none of its members presently have the institutions to rival the America or Europe. China is probably the best bet, if the country becomes a democracy.

When I was at business school, Japan's GDP was forecast to be greater than America's by 2000 and India was the great hope, few people would have put any money on China.
Anyone remember the Soviet Union, Putin's Russia has inherited most of its culture.
Posted by mac, Friday, 16 May 2014 8:26:23 PM
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My great hope for a new international monetary order is that it will deny any country the ability to impose sanctions in the self-serving fashion we have seen used by the US. The US had great power, and they have abused it shamelessly. I don't know what will come next, but I hope for better.
Posted by halduell, Saturday, 17 May 2014 1:02:33 AM
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<<..With a background in international law,..one would have thought that his knowledge of sovereignty would be stronger. He definitely has an interesting way of showing it...>>

his mind sees..in chess logic.
currently..he is prepering to castle...and if the world..is to get..its long awaited promise..we must cocicrate russia properly ah la fatima.

<<..Unfortunately,..>>
at anytime..the church could have given mary her due[not jew]

<<..Russians typically live and suffer..through times of trial.>>
the state is their mother/its patriarchall bulls *hit..that fights endless war

<<..Democracy..>>under czar putin/protectorate of mary's earthly estate chattle flora flesh..a motherly living/loving govt protective service..<<..may change this though.>>

<<..Henry Kiss-singer has noted..that many Russians believe that Ukraine..is part of their heritage..>>

this is true
http://tarpley.net/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Austria_Hungary_ethnic.svg

<<..and rightfully theirs.>>
this is untrue

Ukraine’s puppet dictator Gen. Skoropadsky (center) confers with his masters Field Marshal von Hindenburg and General Ludendorff of the German Imperial General Staff at their headquarters at Spa, Belgium, September 9, 1918. Germany had created modern Ukraine earlier that same year as a source of food and a *counterweight to Russia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rzeczpospolita_1938.svg

untrue/too<<..Putin has capitalised on this

but usa/6 billion lobby eforts..made..all of this..<<in a time of desperation.>>

what rubbish
this is bolchovic jews kids comming home..on some blue eyed zion mission/and steal the bread bassket of the world/take ukrane-gold\and pol'ute it's lands by frakking leases/polute heaven/to create hell on earth/

usa cannot be allowed to further murder off..enemies of zion/putting people into the dark ages/one world..thats all we got

<<.. He has falling popularity and
is holding government because of his own corruption.>>

under communism/no one really owns anything
make himczar

<<Last week, I met with some young Ukrainians>>
well former/ukes really/they were kids from isarel/on pill-grime-age

<<..I pressed her again..on..the best case scenario.>>
<<She paused..and then said.."it would be nice"...>>

if palisteinians wernt here?
<<..if Russia wasn't here,>>

well it is..so get over it
Posted by one under god, Saturday, 17 May 2014 7:48:21 AM
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To get back to the title of this article, I came across this in another article: "Right now, American media are working night and day to attribute blame for the troubles in Ukraine to Putin’s territorial ambitions. It won’t work. The tale they tell is so transparently at odds with the facts that the pretense is bound to collapse.
The real story is just the opposite: the geopolitical ambitions of the United States and the EU account for the troubles in Ukraine. No amount of media chicanery can suppress this stubborn fact for long."
It's worth a read - http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/05/16/cold-war-obama-style/
Posted by halduell, Saturday, 17 May 2014 8:58:44 AM
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Putin knows history and need for xenophobia and scapegoats, with a good dose of cultural superiority, in this case over the 'little Russians' or the 'borderlands', whether the poeple like it or not.

My main issue is how intelligent and well educated people in the 'west' including John Pilger, can blindly support Putin and the 'kremlinbot' propaganda about the west, NATO, EU, Europe, Nazis, Jews and other conspiracy theories (especially when the 'west' did benefits from the reformation and renaissance which bypassed much of the Orthodox lands).

Or is it cognitive dissonance, i.e. many of the left support elements state capitalism and centralisation like Putin also seems to prefer? These same types of systems or monopolies were and will remain at the root of corruption and decline in such economies, according to Pacepa head of Romanian intelligence under Ceaucescu.

All very well to critise and demonise the west ala Russia Today, but what is as noticeable is the reluctance for Russian state or Putin protagonists to look inwards, discuss the Orthodox church's role in modern Russia etc. ......

Many of those who genuinely support Putin's policies, apart from the Kremlin bots and actual pariots, may think differently if they had to put up with monopolies of power, innate corruption and lacking various basic human rights those in the 'west' take for granted.

Where are the concerns for the 'people' whatever ethnic background in Ukraine, Russia etc.. who unlike the middle class Russians and Ukrainians cannot simply leave and make a 'bolt hole' elsewhere.....?
Posted by Andras Smith, Saturday, 17 May 2014 7:17:31 PM
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Now let's see Andras Smith who has the track record for war and violence.

The USA with 900 Military Bases in 153 countries has invaded or attacked Vietnam, Somalia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Libya, Yugoslavia, Iraq for weapons of mass destruction to name a few. They also tried to attack Syria and Iran until Russia said enough is enough.

Since WW2 Russia has invaded Afghanistan and lost. Russia does not have troops in the Ukraine. Russia always had a Military base in Crimea. So tell us who has the track record for imperialist aggression?
Posted by Arjay, Sunday, 18 May 2014 12:42:32 AM
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Arjay,
The U.S Democratic party also has the worst record on military misadventure, military incompetence and pointless aggression, beginning with Woodrow Wilson. Obama is nowhere near as competent as F.D.R was, and F.D.R was bad enough, he slaughtered millions of German and Japanese civilians then his successor betrayed half of Europe by turning it over to the Soviet butchers.
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Sunday, 18 May 2014 7:44:24 AM
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My only response is.....

Vice President Joe Biden visits Ukraine:

Son of Joe appointed to Ukraine Oil board:

Now that one was not plasterted all over the free media....Please move away I am going to throw up.....
Posted by sonofgloin, Sunday, 18 May 2014 11:25:01 AM
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@sonofgloin. It gets worse. Also appointed to the same board as Biden junior was Dean Archer. Archer shared a room at college with Christopher Heinz, John Kerry's stepson.

Archer was co-chairman of Kerry's finance committee in Kerry's 2004 bid for the presidential nomination.

All of this of course is simply a continuation of politics as usual for the US elites. Waging war has always been good for profits as the late great Gore Vidal among others have pointed out. Doesn't matter whether they are nominally Republican or Democrat. Not unlike Labour and Liberals here really.
Posted by James O'Neill, Monday, 19 May 2014 11:20:19 AM
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James it just astounds me that people with the sense to get dressed in the mornings believe the propaganda fed to us by the mass media....mate it really has become "the Emperor has no clothes".....the plebs don't see it.
Posted by sonofgloin, Monday, 19 May 2014 6:59:55 PM
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@Halduell. You would find Pepe Escobar's article for www.tomdispatch.com of considerable interest I think. It traverses the kinds of issues one can only dream about reading in the Oz media (mainstream or otherwise). I think it is fair to say that we are on the verge of a tectonic shift in the geopolitical forces shaping the world in general and our region will not be unaffected.

The question is: has the present Oz government the wit or the talent to see what is happening and to be part of it? The present signs are not promising.
Posted by James O'Neill, Tuesday, 20 May 2014 8:45:55 AM
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In recent months,..Ultra-Orthodox and right wing Jews were screaming murder,..mentioning the Sergei Court..as an antecedent...[amoung/other..global..'pro-jects]..

Sergei Court,,is the nickname of the property..at Heleni HaMalka 13, in downtown Jerusalem...It was named after Grand Duke Sergei Alexandrovich,..son of Czar Alexander II..and brother of Alexander III.

The building was constructed..in 1890..for the joy of pilgrims belonging..to Russian aristocracy...Over time it was occupied by Israel,..which placed in it..the Ministry of Agriculture...

http://www.roitov.com/articles/cenacle.htm

On March 23,2011,..PM Netanyahu was scheduled to visit Moscow.
48 Hours..before leaving Israel,..the Russian government announced that the visit is cancelled..unless Israel returns the Sergei Court. Within 24 hours,..the Ministry was evacuated..(See Selling King David's Tomb).
http://www.roitov.com/articles/apifior.htm

A campaign is conducted..by Israeli right..claiming that a similar event..is planned with the Cenacle..and King David's Tomb..*below it.

"Final Agreement..Needs to be Signed"

The visit..of the Pope..at the place is significant..because it includes..a mass..[last-supper/mass]..despite not being..one of the allowed prayer days...Moreover,..Israeli officials..have acknowledged that an agreement..is ready.

[clearly/some..could\seek..to prevent/this][and set-up/arabs/russians/chinese]..to take../the\fall...for/red/flag[black-flag-event]..[using/..say..a mal-asian/plain.]

Speaking for the Latin Patriarchate,..David Noihouse acknowledged that Christians..want an agreement regularizing prayer rights..in the Cenacle.*"This is a central place..[last-upper/place]..for Christians worldwide,..and right now..it is possible to pray there only with special permits.

In certain sense,..the Church was born there,*..it is the most natural thing..for Christians to want to visit and pray there..as mother mary spake..in fatima.

Hanna Bandekobsky..(English spelling may vary)..is the Director of the Program..for Jewish-Christian Relations of the Jerusalem Center. On May 20,..ahead of the visit,..she gave an interview to Yediot Ahronot.

She said,.."Now there is a final agreement..that needs to be signed; it includes many details...As part of it.. the Catholics tried to introduced prayer rights in the room,..but the details have not yet been published."

Right wing activists were stopped..from visiting the Cenacle..by the police...The latter told the intruders.."It is a church up there"..[while secretly filmed.]

The video..was uploaded to the internet..and is now a source of Jewish religious hysteria;..*"King David's Tomb..*will be given to the Vatican,"..they say in a variety of ways,..despite the event being unlikely...as/they only 'share'..a..common entrance/doorway\.
Posted by one under god, Wednesday, 21 May 2014 7:41:13 AM
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UN Charter Article 1: “All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.”

What a welter of geopolitical codswallop in this thread sidestepping that number one principle of human rights - the right of peoples to self-determination. To retreat from this principle is to retreat from what scores of millions of decent people including OUR people died to secure after hordes of armed vermin triggered a world war by sweeping aside the Poles’ and after that millions of others’ right to self-determination in their own homelands. All downstream crimes grew from this crime for which at least some of the leaders got their necks rightly stretched at Nuremberg.

Yet this Mr Liveris supports Hillary Clinton’s lying, revisionist declaration that Putin is behaving like Hitler. Where and when was the 1939 referendum offering Poles the power to vote for independence of the Nazi scum occupying their country? And what are the specific criticisms of the recent referenda in the captive regions of Ukraine? Where is the information-seeking debate? Where are the counter-proposals for a better way (if there is one) to measure the actual wishes of the people of these areas - and to respect them? Where in Mr Liveris’ article does he express a tuppenny damn for the people, seeing only rival “interests”
Posted by EmperorJulian, Friday, 23 May 2014 6:03:24 PM
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Running Guns From Ukraine to Syria is Getting Complicated
By: Blacklistednews

http://www.blacklistednews.com/Running_Guns_From_Ukraine_to_Syria_is_Getting_Complicated/35434/0/0/0/Y/M.html
http://investmentwatchblog.com/fed-bailed-out-canada-prime-minister-harper-caught-lying/
http://rinf.com/alt-news/breaking-news/us-drone-strikes-pakistan-attack-houses/
http://rinf.com/alt-news/breaking-news/uk-government-faces-legal-action-failure-investigate-bt-drones-link/
http://investmentwatchblog.com/dramatic-footage-insider-video-shows-ukraine-helicopters-firing-at-own-troops/
http://rinf.com/alt-news/breaking-news/uk-government-faces-legal-action-failure-investigate-bt-drones-link/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2430875/Barack-Obama-19-5m-fake-Twitter-followers.html
http://www.redressonline.com/2014/05/barack-obamas-acceptance-of-the-israeli-narrative/
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/180964#.U3-MQHbyQ-A

All the ingredients are there for a proper arms deal: A former government official with connections to the military-industrial complex. A stockpile of Soviet arms in Ukraine. Soldiers in Syria with a yen for ammo and cash to burn.

The biggest problem? Getting the arms from eastern Europe to the battleground without alerting international authorities or tipping off your enemies.
Posted by one under god, Saturday, 24 May 2014 1:59:22 PM
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ITS ALl GOOD

THE PLAN IS..the faulse prince of peace..confesses
and we stick by him..while he re writes the code/so we know who has been good/bad..and make thge crime not pay..thus make crime go away

we now have the watchers/they are watching only the money flow
do the wrong thing its simply action denied go to nearesT POLICE STATION TO CLARIFY

THAT WE WILL ACCEPT YOUR MA*jESTY..[OUR OWN PERSONAL CREDIT CARD/YOUR MAJESTY..GRACED BY Your face[unto all your commoners to help repair the common wealth

I..was just watching our beloved frail old queen[pbuh]
and was minded of when i first but saw her passing by..

i saw/the envisioning oF HER BLOOMING..from little child
to her right royal majesty...sovereign reining over her common weath.

then the thought struck me..like with yanki presidents tend to do
[ie issue a long list of pardons and things called presidential-orders
[does not a reigning sovereign yet hold the powers of grace mercy..over her whole common weal?

OR NOT
PLEASE DISCUSS
PLEASE..note..im sworn oath to the queen/not the crown
but arnt they one and the same?

how weell do we know our queen?
have you but seen her passing by?
how about the flag[is it her flag..or the flag of the common wealth

so much we dont know?
please tell us what do you know?
what have you seen of our queen?

im told dont look her in the eyes
and never look upon her face

please?
Next thing ya be saying..if shes on the road
or on her rivers the people gotta first leave?

are we a colony..or a group of colonies?
Posted by one under god, Saturday, 7 June 2014 9:38:43 AM
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