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The Forum > Article Comments > Sacred promises > Comments

Sacred promises : Comments

By Max Atkinson, published 13/5/2014

It was, then, something of a surprise to see Education Minister Christopher Pyne on Q&A seeking to justify the ‘debt levy’ on egalitarian grounds.

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A single stand alone entirely unavoidable expenditure tax, and the repeal of virtually all other taxation, except say, tobacco, and alcohol excise; and all capital gains, all of the latter becoming solely state taxes; to enable seriously downsized state administrations, to service very reduced state responsibilities?
Would not just return egalitarianism, but create it!
And ending all public service duplication,, with a direct funding model for health and education, coupled to more regional autonomy, would aid and assist that very outcome!
Given the 30% savings, could be redirected into coal face service provision and or, unmet need, would further assist that very outcome.
We really do need to create an egalitarian system, if only to ensure the best and brightest rise to ultimately, the most responsible and or, challenging positions!
Which in turn, would increase the general welfare and economic opportunities of the entire nation, rather than a shrinking ultra privileged minority.
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Tuesday, 13 May 2014 10:36:54 AM
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Yeah stuff the levy. I admit I'd have to pay it. I'm with labor and the greens on this.
So yeah make Joe and Tony keep their promises and just cut the spending. Reduce the size oof government, substantially not a token amount, no welfare to middle income earners or corporations and cut services to poor people. I don't get any of that fat wastefulness either.

Yeah to Shorten and the greens. They'll do me. They are looking out for my interests. I'll be voting for them.
Posted by imajulianutter, Tuesday, 13 May 2014 11:59:09 AM
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It is clear that the politicians (of both parties) make promises before elections that they have no intention of keeping. Do you really think that the Liberals had no idea of the state of the economy before they were elected? This is no different from any other form of false or misleading advertising. If the Liberals were selling washing machines instead of themselves as candidates for high public office, they would be facing heavy fines or even criminal action for fraud.

Max Atkinson thinks that there is no solution because of the very real problem of promises needing to be broken because of changed circumstances. But why leave it up to the politicians? If they find it necessary to break a promise, then they could call up a citizens' jury. If they can convince the citizens' jury that the promise ought to be broken and that they had made the original promise in good faith, then they should be able to break that promise without repercussions. Otherwise, they should be treated in the same way as any other swindler. This might have the added advantage of greater honesty in politics, with the parties treating us as adults, because it would be too dangerous for the politicians to make promises that they have no intention of keeping.

In this case, the deficit levy is not a bad idea, although it really amounts to just touching the rich with a feather, compared to the effects of the rest of the budget on low and middle income earners. Nevertheless, Penny Wong et al. should oppose it as a broken promise. This is not an emergency situation, and Tony Abbott can take it to the next election and get a mandate.
Posted by Divergence, Tuesday, 13 May 2014 12:16:48 PM
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But hang on didn't Tony also promise to scrap the Carbon Tax? Surely to be consistent Penny and her mates both red and green should support Tony if they expect him to fulfill his election promises.
They don't have to keep theirs because they don't have a mandate for them, Tony does.

Yeah and look at the asylum seekers. There are none arriving.

Well I can probably afford a couple of hundred a week for a couple of years.

Anyway within a year we might see two former PM's facing criminal charges.

So naaaah I'll still vote liberal but thank labor and the greens for thinking of me and offering me their paternalistic support.

Lol
Posted by imajulianutter, Tuesday, 13 May 2014 12:18:58 PM
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Given the dire circumstances, the debt levy on its own would be justified, as to begin with it should be unconstitutional and shameful to place other people in debt, as previous governments did to all Australians.

However, the words of Deuteronomy 23:21-23 override such practical considerations:

"When you shall vow a vow unto the LORD your God, you shall not delay to pay it: for the LORD your God will surely require it of you; and it would be sin to you. But if you shall abstain to vow, it shall be no sin to you. That which is gone out from your lips you shall keep and perform; even a freewill offering, according as you have vowed unto the LORD your God, which you have promised with your mouth."
Posted by Yuyutsu, Tuesday, 13 May 2014 12:41:20 PM
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It is disappointing that Mr Abbott followed the previous Governments policy of lying to the electorate. Telling the Australian public the truth is making yourself unelectable as self interest is always pandered to at election time. Irony is that the dogma of moral relativism is only selective when it comes to lying. Maybe Tony needs to go back to his Christian roots to avoid being a compulsive liar like some of the previos Governments promising surplus's and no carbon taxes and wasting billions on failed green schemes.
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 13 May 2014 1:44:08 PM
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That's not the ancient hebrew god, the one christ rejected, who you are quoting yu? You know the old vengeful one and not the later forgiving christian one.
Posted by imajulianutter, Tuesday, 13 May 2014 3:31:05 PM
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Hey yu,

Do you still believe in deuteronomy 22?
Posted by imajulianutter, Tuesday, 13 May 2014 3:36:39 PM
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All well and good, but promises, however sacred, need to be funded!
And due to the fact that govts of both political persuasions pissed revenue up against the wall, to coin a phase, we now have to make sacrifices.
Having said that, let me say this.
If you accept that we have a 1.6 trillion economy, then an 18% levy collected as the only tax taken, as a single stand alone unavoidable expenditure tax, would raise in excess of 380 billions!
I however believe that the economy is actually bigger, (5 times bigger?) particularly if you include all the business done here, by tax avoiding multinationals etc!?
And growing the revenue base is as simple as growing the economy!
And that is as simple as providing, free of privateers, lowest costing energy, and the lowest actual total tax impost, not made more expensive, by completely unnecessary tax compliance costs!
A single stand alone tax, would share the load much more equitably.
If we really wanted to save some serous money, we should opt for very different federal union and state govt models.
Which could be limited to a winner takes all governor, and around a dozen handpicked by him or her, team of state govt administrators?
States'rights could be protected by the Senate, and their very state friendly reviews!
Given diverse opinion and free and fearless advice, and a virtual army of investigative journalists, there'd simply be no need to also engage oppositions, which can in effect, double the cost of just running the establishment.
A luxury we can no longer afford, which currently holds back around 35 billions from capital works projects every year.
Put that money into infrastructure Australia, and in three years we'd be able to link the east coast with income earning, very rapid rail!
In another ten years, we'd have finished an inland shipping canal?
And in three more, our own fleet of roll on roll off nuclear powered shipping!
All of which would seriously grow the economy, jobs and wealth creation opportunities!
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Tuesday, 13 May 2014 3:42:10 PM
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Dear Imajulianutter,

<<Do you still believe in deuteronomy 22?>>

Did I ever? Deuteronomy 22 has some horrible injunctions, such as the stoning of adulterers and the prohibition on cross-dressing, but my quote was from Deuteronomy 23, wasn't it?

It Begins with "He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord." - well, I don't buy that: I believe (and so did Jesus) that everyone is entitled to enter into the congregation of the Lord, regardless of what they have or haven't inside their pants.

But while I don't believe in verses 1-6 for example, I do approve of verse 15, forbidding to return an escaping slave to his master, or of verse 16, forbidding to mistreat non-citizen residents.

And I do believe in verses 21-23, and so I think does Tony Abbott - which needs this reminder!
Posted by Yuyutsu, Tuesday, 13 May 2014 5:08:45 PM
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