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The Forum > Article Comments > Faltering peace talks latest in history of Palestinian rejection > Comments

Faltering peace talks latest in history of Palestinian rejection : Comments

By Alexander Ryvchin, published 8/5/2014

Only by reducing the Palestinians to 'pure victims' of the 'Nazi-Israelis' can the activist achieve the desired sense of moral superiority.

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Does the same logic apply in Ukraine at the moment LEGO?

Or is it just a disgusting justification for war and genocide?
Posted by mikk, Thursday, 8 May 2014 10:40:27 PM
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Dear Mik

I have not studied the history of the Ukraine, or the role which Russia had in defining what is the Ukraine and what is not. I do know that Russia took the Ukraine from the Muslims in the late 1700's and they regard the Ukraine as their territory. Of course, you could say that the nasty Russians therefore stole the land off the poor Muslims, but since the Muslims stole the land from the former Byzantine Christian owners, their claim was through military conquest also, so they can hardly cry "foul."

The Soviet Premier Khrushchev gave the Crimea to the Soviet republic of the Ukraine, probably because at that time the Soviets thought that the Ukraine would forever be part of the Soviet Union. It had never occurred to them that the Ukraine would separate from Russia and that they would lose this very valuable Russian territory of the Crimea. They want it back and they are prepared to go to war to get it. You can compare it to the USA's interference in Cuba where the US considered their security would be threated by having a Communist state within 200 miles of Miami, so they armed Cuban exiles to take it back.

The lesson for you is the dangers of multiculturalism. Multicultural states are unstable states because most people are intensely loyal to their skin colour and to the culture which they identify with. In every situation where two or more cultures and races exist within the same territory and population proportions change through birth rate differentials, or immigration, the result HAS ALWAYS BEEN serious civil strife, demands for separatism, high crime rates, terrorism, and finally, civil war.

I suspect that you are a young person who can only think immaturely, in moral absolutes. Well, here is a moral absolute which actually works.

"The history of the world,
Reveals a simple plan,
He takes who has the power,
He holds, who can."
Posted by LEGO, Friday, 9 May 2014 4:02:49 AM
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The real problem is that when the moslems invaded Israel in about
1000 AD plus/minus some years, and ejected or murdered Jews and Christians,
they never expected that the Jews would come back and eject them.

That is the fundamental problem.
It seems the Jews have a longer memory than the Moslems.
Posted by Bazz, Friday, 9 May 2014 9:51:24 AM
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Dear LEGO,

<<
"The history of the world,
Reveals a simple plan,
He takes who has the power,
He holds, who can."
>>

This is a short-sighted version of history.

Psalm 37:10 says: "But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace".

This was repeated by Jesus: "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth".

In the Bhagavad-Gita, God declares: “For the protection of the good, for the destruc­tion of the evil, and for the establishment of righteousness, I am born in every age.”

The Jews of Israel were fortunate to win their land due to their moral superiority, compared with the savageness of the surrounding Arabs. But since 1967, this moral superiority is constantly deteriorating. As the morality of Palestinians was so low to begin with, it takes time for Israel to "catch up", but it surely goes in that direction and once it does, Israel will be no more. Still remaining one notch above the Syrian regime is not a great source of pride.

The tactical loss of the Arabs in 1967 proves to be their greatest strategic victory, by causing the Jews to swallow the poisonous bait of those cursed territories and become proud of themselves, trusting in the idol of militarism, now the remaining Jewish morality is being chipped away, rusted away by this acid.

Deuteronomy 8:17 warns against this attitude of "And thou say in thine heart, My power and the might of mine hand hath gotten me this wealth.", concluding in verse 8:20: "As the nations which the Lord destroyeth before your face, so shall ye perish; because ye would not be obedient unto the voice of the Lord your God."
Posted by Yuyutsu, Friday, 9 May 2014 10:08:18 AM
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Morality, my dear Yuyutsu, is rarely absolute. And more often what is morally right and what is morally wrong, is a matter of culture, and point of view. Your vague post to me seemed to suggest that the Israelis are immoral for stealing Palestinian land. Do you really think that the average Israeli walks around thinking that his people are thieves?

The Jews have been persecuted by just about everybody for 3500 years. They have been the subjects of pogroms, ethnic cleansings, genocide, and have had their property and real estate routinely seized and stolen. They are a classic example of how vulnerable a people can be if they do not have a militarily strong state of their own to defend themselves. The Jews regard all of Israel as their ancestral lands, and it is the Muslims who ethnically cleansed them from all Muslim lands, including Israel, and occupied the Jewish homeland.

Self preservation is an extremely moral position.

My premise is, that the Arab position is extremely immoral. They regard Israel as land conquered from the infidels which is now Allah's land, and it can never revert back to the infidels. That was why they built that dirty great Mosque on top of the Temple of David. It is their way of saying "this is now Muslim land forever, the Jews are finished."

The purpose of Muslim hatred of Israel has nothing to do with the "poor" Palestinians. The Arab states could easily accommodate the "Palestinians" but they don't want to. Unlike Australia and western countries , They will not give Palestinians citizenship, allow them to open businesses, or give them any real government assistance. What they want, is for the Palestinians problem to never be resolved. They can then redirect the hostility of their own people to the Israelis, which should be directed at the greed, incompetence, and failure of their own leaders and their own religion
Posted by LEGO, Friday, 9 May 2014 8:51:33 PM
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Dear LEGO,

Enough has been said about the immorality of Arabs/Palestinians/Muslims. That's a fact which neither of us can do anything about.

The question at hand is why should Israel "compete" with their atrocities, why should Israel insist on reducing itself so instead of being "a light unto the nations", it is morally only one notch above its opponents.

Surely Israel should defend itself, but some of its actions go well beyond defensiveness and are motivated instead by cruelty, hatred and greed.

Israel's army is strong enough, it even has nuclear capabilities (which should be retained): from a military point of view, Israel doesn't need any of those cursed territories for its defence against the weak Palestinians, whom Israel can easily defeat with its military brass band alone (in fact, from a military point of view, these territories are a burden because the need to protect the settlers draws much resources and detracts the forces from arming and training against more serious threats).

The arrogance due to the military victory of 1967 have corrupted Israeli society and does not stop with Arabs/Palestinians - it brought crime and violence, including on Israel's roads (many more Israelis are killed by road accidents than by wars and terrorism) and domestic violence. The once humble and peaceful nation is no longer a charitable society. This is something to weep about.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Saturday, 10 May 2014 8:47:48 PM
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