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The Forum > Article Comments > Mum and dad march in outrage > Comments

Mum and dad march in outrage : Comments

By Judy Cannon, published 23/4/2014

People of many diverse opinions and allegiances, they had come together to protest because they were so appalled by the current government's treatment of boat refugees.

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Incredible Judy! Your examination of this issue is so so SO narrow!

What about the need to stop the boats? The need to have a firm stance so as to present a strong deterrence factor? The need to stop people dying at sea on unseaworthy boats?

What about the potential for Australia to be subjected to a massive rate of onshore asylum seekers arrivals if we show that we are as accommodating as we were under Rudd and Gillard? What about the social disruption and enormous expense that that would lead to?

What about the quite commendable effort that Australia is putting into international aid and refugee issues and has for decades? What about our quite reasonable intake of refugees as a formal part of our immigration program?

What about the fact that many asylum seekers destroy their papers and deliberately try to obfuscate the process, in the hope that with the lack of tangible information about them they will be given the benefit of the doubt and be allowed to stay.

What about the increased time that it takes to sort out applications when papers have been destroyed?

What about the inherent unrest that most detainees have, and would still have even if they were given five-star accommodation in detention?

What about the problems of abscondment and perhaps the development of an underclass if we were to allow asylum seekers to live outside of detention in the community while their claims were being processed? What would happen when they get told that their claims have been rejected if they are not in detention?

And many many more questions.

Bottom line: Abbott is doing the right thing. At last this horrible mess, created by Rudd; our worst-ever PM, is being decisively dealt with.
Posted by Ludwig, Wednesday, 23 April 2014 9:00:16 AM
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Good stuff, Ludwig.
Well said!
Posted by SPQR, Wednesday, 23 April 2014 9:08:52 AM
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‘morning Judy,

We would have to assume that you supported the Rudd/Gillard open door policy on asylum seekers.

We have to assume you accept the unintended consequences of such policies resulting in the tragic loss of some 1,200 men, women and children.

I would be prepared to debate you on your claims against the current government when you are prepared to acknowledge your culpability for the deaths your policies inflicted.

We can then extrapolate just how many lives have been saved by current policies.

I would love to know how you sleep at night?
Posted by spindoc, Wednesday, 23 April 2014 10:08:29 AM
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A couple of hundred march in outrage? Well they were upset because they did'na hae a piper and therefore, did'na keep in step, but rather trod on toes etc!
Resulting in many new highland dances?
Accompanied by much high pitched merriment? Och aye the noo!
It's hard to know who are the parents, (mum and dad) or the bairns? Maturity is'na guide? [Nor the tilt in the kilt!]
I guess the mum and dad, would be the the ones with children? [Hopefully, occasionally?]
A good protest march usually produces enough numbers, [or even just a very busy pedestrian crossing,] to block some traffic?
I hope the author wasn't confusing gushing royalty watchers, with the so-called protest, made most notable by the huge overwhelming silent majority who stayed at home, in both cases.
We take genuine asylum seekers, and there could be scope to take many more.
In fact, if those currently trying to make there way here by illegal means, just kept their papers, then flew here as regular tourists, they'd probably be less likely to drown at sea, need far less money as return airfares and reasonable expenses, than currently handed over to organised crime.
Yet be still able to claim asylum and much more rapid processing, once landed!
The facts are, no genuine asylum seeker is prevented from traveling here, unless they drown at sea! [That'll usually do it!]
And if they'd just hang on to their identifying papers, [well they do need them to get as far as Malaysia or Indonesia,] their claims, if legitimate, could be processed far more quickly!
But that's nae the real goal is it?
I mean, who's going to trash their own identifying documentation, once relatively safe inside another country?
Arguably only those with something to hide? Och aye!
If this issue had any legs or currency, the great silent majority, would have voted very differently.
And, there are new state elections just around the corner!
The ballot box or millions marching is the only way to force change, and that just ain't happening!
Rhrosty
Posted by Rhrosty, Wednesday, 23 April 2014 11:36:32 AM
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Oh dear oh dear. More self-righteous moral entrepreneurs misrepresenting the truth about illegal immigrants so they can see themselves as better than 'other people'.

This kind of moral status display is much worse than conspicuous consumption. The Wolf Wall Street, a moral cesspit, at least limits his greed to what he can consume himself.

These moral entrepreneurs will not rest until they scrape the very thoughts from inside our heads; their cupidity to take our freedom and our right to our own ideas will never sleep; their is nothing of other people's possessions or freedom they will not give up to satisfy their moral busybodying.

How many of these people have any idea what a thousand lost lives cost? They are dead because Kevin Rudd pandered to the moral posturing of refugee advocates. How do these nosy parkers making false claims about the people smuggling business feel about five billion dollars cost to manage their spilled milk? That is five hundred dollars stolen from EVERY HOUSEHOLD IN AUSTRALIA! Even Julia Gillard said it was their fault for opening the borders, we find, though she denied it in public.

Go away you busybodies. Form a circle, point at yourselves and say: Its my fault.

Then get lost.
Posted by ChrisPer, Wednesday, 23 April 2014 12:45:04 PM
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Two side to this argument and both seem wrong and avoiding the real problems, 1. Why are they fleeing there native countries 2nd why doesn't
Indonesia stop them at there boarders.
People shouldn't be allowed in illegally by boat or any other method period. Last report I seen the plane numbers made the "boaties" look like a joke.But stop the boats made a better catch phrase.
We should respect Indonesian boarders If they where doing the right thing, So step up the pressure on Indonesian to lift its gain
Posted by Aussieboy, Wednesday, 23 April 2014 1:14:11 PM
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"People shouldn't be allowed in illegally by boat or any other method period."

You know this isn't a debate when you see nonsense like the above written. They arrive without vias, it's completely legal to turn up by any means possible and claim refugee status, nothing illegal about it at all.

Charlie Chaplin said it best decades ago and we've still learned nothing (speech at the end of his movie "The Great Dictator"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcvjoWOwnn4

and his line "we all want to so is help each other, human beings are like that" has proved to be sadly wrong in this "debate" and instead his line "we have lost the way and greed has poisoned mens souls" has proved the more poignant sentiment.
Posted by Valley Guy, Wednesday, 23 April 2014 2:27:59 PM
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Judy we are outraged at defectors to the UN, the most corrupt organisation ever seen on the planet, so traitorous to the people of OZ, that they let into our country any bit of garbage that turned up at the boarder.

Oh & Valley Guy, country shopping is not legal. It is only the first country of refuge that must give sanctuary to refugees.

That sanctuary only has to be a place of refuge, that is some sort of camp. No country is obliged to allow permanent residency to them.
Posted by Hasbeen, Wednesday, 23 April 2014 3:53:33 PM
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Judy, Judy, Judy. Labor's high seas deaths have stopped, why are you upset?
Posted by McCackie, Wednesday, 23 April 2014 4:32:23 PM
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The people of Australia had their say at the last election Judy Cannon. They voted overwhelmingly for a political party which among its major promises was to stop the boats! THANKFULLY they have done just that. Most of us are quite over the concerns of the bleeding heart morally superior do-gooders who may march every weekend if they like. The exercise is undoubtedly beneficial.

Your article is totally one-sided and so ingenuous it might have been penned by a 15yr old high schooler ....

Please - go do something useful for your country.
Posted by divine_msn, Wednesday, 23 April 2014 4:33:14 PM
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Aussie Boy,
You said, "People shouldn't be allowed in illegally by boat or any other method period. Last report I seen the plane numbers made the "boaties" look like a joke.But stop the boats made a better catch phrase".

You are right in the first sentence, 'people shouldn't be allowed in illegally by boat or any other method period'.

Persons attempting to enter Aus without a valid visa by air are sent back to their place of embarkation on next available flight. They are detained until then. Check DIAC website. Your information is wrong.

Valley Guy,
It is against Australian law to enter Aus without a valid visa. Those that do are breaking the law and we can, and do, lock them up for doing so. We do not detain legal arrivals. Check DIAC website.
Posted by Banjo, Wednesday, 23 April 2014 5:04:34 PM
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Dear Judy.

Your article suggests that their is a groundswell of support for boat people from ordinary Australians. You know, and I know, that is complete rot.

Australia imported tens of thousands of Vietnamese after the fall of South Vietnam (with justification), and the Vietnamese suburb of Cabramatta is now the heroin capitol of Australia. according to ex Detective Sergeant Tim Priest, ambulances will not enter this suburb without a police escort because of the assaults by local criminals on ambulance personnel. . Teachers in high schools in the area surrounding Cabramatta have confiscated $15 heroin "starter packs" from students containing a small quantity of heroin, a needle, a spoon and a lighter. If your kid went to a local high school around Cabramatta, I'll bet that you too would be leery of importing any more boat people. .

Then there was the Lebanese and Arabs "refugees" from the endless wars in the Middle East. The result has been a very serious crime wave in Sydney with at least two shootings every week in the "Muslim" areas of Sydney. 55% of the handgun shootings in the entire state of NSW occur within two notorious ethnic ghettoes, and you can bet that most of the rest occur the neighbouring suburbs. Twenty of these people are now rotting in jail (cost to the community $80,000 per year, per inmate) for terrorism offences. They hate the very people who gave them succour that they want to mass murder us.

Certain ethnicities are very disproportionately represented in very serious violent criminal behaviour, including drug trafficking, rape, violent assault, school invasion and, home invasions, street gang activity, and terrorism, and these are the same ethnicities now barging into Australia uninvited. And you think that this is a good thing which Australians should support? Are you mad? Are you an ethnic yourself who dreams of Australia becoming what you fled from? Or are you a person who's compulsive need to feel morally superior to the rest of us distorts your judgement on what is best for your own people?
Posted by LEGO, Thursday, 24 April 2014 3:53:34 AM
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It should be Loose cannon not Judy with idiotic idealism like that. Is she going to put her efforts/money where her mouth is ? Of course not. I didn't think such stupidity was legal.
Don't give us that crap about the UN about Australia's treatment of refugees. Where's the UN when these people board the boats ? Where's the Un when it comes to screening the genuine from the non-genuine ?
Australia has a great record of dealing with refugees. It's the pseudo refugees wh are de-stabilising it all. Get the Un to look at that.
Also, those peaceful marchers could peacefully hand over the money that's required to support the pseudo refugees.
Anyone who needs help must be helped but this is going too far. what happens when the resources run out & there'll be refugees from Australia.
Posted by individual, Thursday, 24 April 2014 7:00:36 AM
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What exactly makes a non genuine refugee?
If a person has the courage to embark on a perilous journey on a rickety unsafe craft, across a wild ocean and accept all the risks which come with that is that not proof enough of their genuineness?

Who amongst us would have that courage to leave our home, beg and borrow precious life savings from our nearest and dearest to embark on such a journey?

What judicial process could possibly prove that such a desperate person is not genuine? And even if we are to accept that their lives back home were not so terrible, that they just want to make a better life for themselves by venturing on such a hazardous journey - is this not something to be admired?

Does one in a thousand australians have the courage and ingenuity these people have displayed?

Is it perhaps this courage and ingenuity that threatens us? Is this why we detain them in squalor without hope to defeat their spirit. To prove to ourselves that we are not weak and pathetic, fat, lazy and afraid - afraid they will take our jobs, our university spots, our homes, our pensions. Afraid they will end up more successful than us.

There is no moral justification for our treatment of these desperate people. We demean ourselves by treating them as we do. How we treat those most vulnerable and in need is the true proof of character and strength - by that test we are a nation that has neither.
Posted by YEBIGA, Thursday, 24 April 2014 10:43:53 AM
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What exactly makes a non genuine refugee?
Yebiga,
One who hides their identity by not showing the papers to australian authorities. The same papers they used to get as far as Indonesia.
Yes, too feel for people being so desperate to escape persecution & poverty & they need help.
Just like the boat people of 200 years ago but who are now villefied as invaders by many.
You can only help people as long as you can help them, once you arrive at a situation where you can't provide any more help then what ?
What do you suggest should be done to prevent them from becoming refugees in the first place. Let's hear your suggestion.
Posted by individual, Thursday, 24 April 2014 11:57:26 AM
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Have a big ceremony and make them citizens, what else?
I would have parades down our city malls welcoming them as heroes. We could make great movies of their courage across the seas.
Posted by YEBIGA, Thursday, 24 April 2014 12:37:10 PM
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Yebiga,
great idea, by how much would you like to see your taxes increased to help fund it all ?
Posted by individual, Thursday, 24 April 2014 2:59:39 PM
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Gee I thought we were a first world country with abundant resources. Aren't we like top 10 in the world in pretty much any raw material you care to mention: wool, gold, iron, aluminium, wheat, la di da?

Don't we attract students from all over Asia to study in our universities. Surely we are smart enough to know how to utilise the courage of these heroic people. Indeed, perhaps a bit of that courage might rub off on us.

And who else will drive our taxis, work in our sweat shops, man our call centres

You know its possible to have a vision of this country which does not involve becoming a fortress.

And if your really worried about our tax collection, perhaps our government could consider removing negative gearing which only inflates our home prices. Or consider a financial transaction tax to collect something of the booming derivative speculation currently threatening to take the entire world to economic Armageddon!

We are obsessed with all the problems and thus blind to the infinitude of solutions.

Mean little small minded Aussies not worthy of the people who built this nation.
Posted by YEBIGA, Friday, 25 April 2014 12:40:53 AM
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To Yebiga.

Finland, Iceland, Holland, and Israel are first world countries with no natural resources, other than the quality of their people. Most third world countries have abundant natural resources, including the world's most revered cultural attractions, but the quality of the people with their associated cultures and religions, are the problem.

The importation of third world people into first word societies has become a social catastrophe. It has resulted in the creation of ethnic ghettoes where the laws of the host countries are largely ignored, and the languages, customs, and sometimes abhorrent social practices of the immigrant communities (like honour killings, forced marriages, female circumcision, and under age marriages) are practiced. These ghettoes become a cancer on society with high rates of serious violent crime and welfare dependency.

The ghetto situation becomes worse, when the fearful first worlder's flee their own suburbs to get away from the new arrivals, a situation called "white flight." Why should Australians have to flee their own suburbs in fear of people who barge their way into our country? These ghettoes can also morph into very dangerous "no go" areas which is already happening in France, Germany, Sweden and East London. These "no go" areas are characterised by Muslim patrols enforcing Sharia law, police demanding armoured cars to patrol the area, and ambulances and fire trucks refusing to enter the area without a police presence. How bad this can get is illustrated by the example of Washington DC, when in 1993, the mayor (Sharon Kelly) pleaded with the President of the USA to send in the national guard, because the Washington Police had lost control of the streets.

If your dream for Australia is a crime and terrorism filled country with a population resembling a set from the movie Blade Runner", then it is not mine. How many older Australians do you think support your view who will have to work until 70 to get a pension?

The United Nations is a corrupt organisation which is dedicated to the task of sending every person in the third world into the first world
Posted by LEGO, Friday, 25 April 2014 4:49:44 AM
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Lego,
of course you've hit the nail on the head with your post. Problem is that there are hundreds of thousands of Yebigas out there who'll never grasp what's in store. Idealism has caused so many break-downs of societies hence the huge number of refugees & the huge number of people exploiting the opportunity to present themselves as refugees.
My way of dealing with this would be to get an international force that goes in & whacks those moron power mongers on the head & we won't have refugees.
To flood societies which have been built up by people with vision, with such refugees is wrong. We need to work on preventing people from becoming refugees not sprinkle them all over the planet.
In Australia we start with a non-military National Service & a flat tax to start the ball rolling.
Posted by individual, Friday, 25 April 2014 8:54:39 AM
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@ YEBIGA,

<<And who else will drive our taxis, work in our sweat shops, man our call centres>>

WTF!

You are NOT seriously trying to tell us that employers cannot find bods to drive taxis or *person* call centres (how sexist of you to use "man"!|)?

Call centres and Taxis cos have work seekers ten kilomertre long outside their doors --you really must live in a cave in the mountains somewhere!
Posted by SPQR, Friday, 25 April 2014 9:11:53 AM
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why is it usually people sucking off the public purse that usually want to encourage illegal immigration in this country. Dare say many of them only pay taxes that is sucked from the workers anyway.Just happens that over 80% of those coming here illegally and then being found 'genuine 'refugess' are still relying totally on welfare 5 years after invading. Our education system is turning people into fools.
Posted by runner, Friday, 25 April 2014 9:40:41 AM
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Someone is watching a lot of bad movies - really bad movies
And then interpreting it as reality - ooh better not go down to the hood after dark because there are all these heroin addicts and dealers

The scariest places in Australia are schoolies nights full of drunk white private school gits.

This dystopian ghetto violent narrative is largely peoples TV imagination and where occasionally it is real and it is - its cause is unemployment and lack of opportunity. The street gangs in Australia are not ethnically based - you will find as many white Christian boys amongst them as you do Asians and middle eastern boys.

We have been duped to believe complete nonsense and rather than confronting the real causes of our fears - lowering standards of living, the lack of good jobs because of the automation of work which is fundamentally transforming the economy around the world - many of us jump at the opportunity to project our frustrations at the most simplistic tribal crap and regress into hate and blame of those least able to defend themselves and least responsible for our plight or our fears.

The truth is that we are no longer fit to govern this country even for ourselves. We are a client state of the USA, its military, its corporations, its ultra rational economic theories and its dystopian movies.

The only genuine xenophobic issue which Australia should be debating is the current flood of Chinese money into the real estate markets in Melbourne and Sydney, where over 80% of all inner city apartments are purchased by Chinese investors
Posted by YEBIGA, Friday, 25 April 2014 12:03:28 PM
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Yebiga.

The fact that Cabramatta is the heroin capitol of Australia is not a figment of anybodies imagination. The fact that ambulances would not enter this area without police escort because of assaults on ambos, is not a figment of anybodies imagination. So bad were assaults in "ethnic" areas of Sydney on ambulance personnel, that the NSW ambulance service changed their traditional blue shirts to white. This was because too may ethnics mistook them for the police, and that was one of the reasons for the assaults.

55% of the handgun shootings in the entire state of NSW occur within the boundaries of Punchbowl-Bankstown, and Liverpool-Cabramatta. These suburbs have high proportions of Arab and Vietnamese "refugees". That is nobodies "imagination", it is a self evident fact. The more that you advocate a policy that is contrary to observable reality, the less credibility you get with the public for your extraordinary attitude to boat people. . When you claim that ethnicity has little bearing on crime rates, the public knows that you are living in fantasyland, and you completely destroy the credibility of your entire leftist humanitarian ideology.

Not that I think that that is a bad thing. Keep it up. You are helping me immensely.

In 1990, 70 Australian girls in Sydney were gang raped by Muslim race hate rape packs. If Australian boys had gang raped 70 Muslim girls, people like yourself would have pointed to this outrage as positive proof of the racist attitudes of Australians. But Muslims get a free kick. Nobody makes the obvious connection that these rapes were indicative of a general Muslim hatred of Australians (especially Aussie women), even after their spiritual leader blamed the rapes on Australian women. Sheik Hilali claiged that the rape victims were "cat meat", which implied that the slutty Aussie women deserved it.
Posted by LEGO, Saturday, 26 April 2014 7:23:22 PM
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Lego
Unfortunately the demographics of the gangs are nothing like what you would need to sustain such a simplistic conclusion. Those street gangs, as you call them, have as many Anglo members as they do of those with middle eastern Arab heritage.

The whole ethnic argument bears no scrutiny

But if you insist, it is commonly known that the biggest users of heroin are Anglo - skips
One of the reasons the Muslims beat up on them Is precisely because of their heroin use and street loitering.
Posted by YEBIGA, Wednesday, 30 April 2014 11:21:11 PM
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