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The Forum > Article Comments > John Kerry destined for political scrapheap > Comments

John Kerry destined for political scrapheap : Comments

By David Singer, published 18/11/2013

Jewish settlement in the West Bank is not illegal, unlawful or forbidden by law - having been legally sanctioned and expressly enshrined in international law.

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David Singer:

What an impressive array of corrupt officials of the colonial states and their satellites – Albania to Venezuela - a massive task for assiduous lobbying by the global Zionists. I guess all they really needed to do was get the British and French colonial officials in the bag and he rest would follow. No Palestinians in this "unanimous decision" (which excluded little countries like the USSR, the USA, Germany, most African and Middle Eastern populaions).

In particular, no Palestinians. To the Zionists and other “men born to rule” they were only local fauna, not actual people. The link I gave was from the British colonialists, OK for listing events but useless for evaluating how the Palestinians saw themselves. Not surprising that they sought inclusion in the Kingdom of Syria and stopped seeing themselves that way when the colonialists abolished the kingdom. A much better reference to how the Palestinians saw themselves would be http://palestinechronicle.com/old/view_article_details.php?id=19649

As for ancient times, there were always Palestinians but they were known as Canaanites and derivative and preceding tribal names. The narrative seized on by the Zionists is that given in the Pentateuch, in which the heroic Israelite soldiers, responding to a spook speaking in the sky, are supposed to have grabbed Palestine and murdered every Palestinian to clear the land for settlement. Familiar?

Worth having a look at a morality vs religion exchange on that little incident:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/oct/20/richard-dawkins-william-lane-crai
Posted by EmperorJulian, Wednesday, 20 November 2013 6:53:34 PM
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#plantaganet

Sorry. - but the law is the law no matter how old it is.

The Statute of Frauds 1677 and The Hague Conventions of 1899 and 1907 are good examples of laws still applied in 2013.

The Mandate for Palestine and article 80 of the UN Charter comprise binding international law that cannot be erased by the PLO, Hamas or anyone else - although one can understand their continuing efforts to do so - since acceptance of the binding effect of that body of law makes the claims of the PLO and Hamas unsustainable.

Burying the fact that the international community did not recognize any indigenous Palestinian national identity in 1920 or even in 1947 is fundamental - if the Arab narrative is to be believed.

The political issues you raise must not be confused with the legal issues.

The PLO and Hamas do not recognize the legal decisions of the international community as laid out in the Mandate and article 80. Their political decisions based on rejecting such law have brought them nothing but grief over the past 95 years.

Kerry is foolishly following in their footsteps - and see what is happening to him.

It's that simple - recognize the law, obey the law and results can then begin to flow.

Ignore the law at your peril - as you are quick to do - and you have a perfect recipe for disaster - as events of the last 95 years have surely proved.
Posted by david singer, Wednesday, 20 November 2013 8:54:29 PM
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Pete, I hope you enjoyed Singer's little lecture on the law. Recognize the laws, obey the laws and..., well it's heaven on Earth. What crap!

The truth is that laws come, laws go, laws are what the mighty says they are. For example, there is a law prohibiting building on occupied land but what do the Israelis care? There are laws prohibiting cruelty and brutality during an occupation. What do the Israelis care?

Singer has two main problems. He believes in the crazy laws of his religion and, as a lawyer, he makes a living out of the mess of laws that govern every aspect of our lives.

He can and will use the law to stifle discussion or criticism of his rogue nation.

The world will never know peace while people like Singer and his ilk are given free reign.
Posted by David G, Thursday, 21 November 2013 8:49:16 AM
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Hi Davids

The sympathy of the US and other white nations allow Israel to exist. Israel regularly abuses this support and trust.

Yes I agree international law should be recognised - in particular the most recent iterations of international law, particularly UN Resolutions. Such UN Resolutions run contrary to the religion based discrimination of Israeli right-wingers who abuse international support and trust.

I wonder what Israel thinks of its long-standing decision to ignore the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT). The NPT has been signed by almost all countries but never Israel. Non-signatories have often been labelled "rogue" or "pariah" states but white Israel is allowed to build the more powerful thermonuclear weapons.

I assume racism and illegal help from white nations has made Israel an exception to the rules law abiding nations abide by?

Pete
Posted by plantagenet, Thursday, 21 November 2013 10:53:21 AM
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#Emperor Julian

First you claimed there was no international consensus.

When that bubble bursts - you then allege the officials of the 51 member states of the League of nationswere corrupt - without a skerrick of proof.

Now you claim the Palestinians are supposedly descended from the Cananites. That is not what the PLO alleges in its Charter.

The link you provided contains the following statement:
"After World War I, Feisal who would become King of first Syria and then Iraq, proposed to the Zionist leader Chaim Weizman, a mutual partnership in developing a Jewish homeland in Palestine. Arabs leaders subsequently rejected this understanding, clasiming that the Allies had not met their commitment to the Feisal's father Sherif Hussein. Arabs mobs conducted the first major anti-Jewish riots in Palestine (1920)."

I suppose you would find it perfectly reasonable for the Arab leaders to reject the understanding between Feisal and Weizmann since they only got 99.99% of the conquered Ottoman Empire. Agreeing to the Jews getting 0.01% was too much for them to concede and the same is apparently too much for Jew-haters like you.

But the above statements of fact conveniently explodes your baseless and unsubstantiated claims. So throw that link out the window and give us another one.

This one contains a doozy that Jew haters would love:

"Britain was given a Mandate over Palestine by the League of Nations to shepherd the natives toward the goal of governing themselves and eventually achieve complete independence"

I swear the mandate talks about reconstituting the Jewish National Home in Palestine without prejudice to the civil and religious rights of the non-Jewish communities.

Wow and another great revelation from you - Germany was not a member of the League of Nations it had sought to destroy - neither was Russia which did not get an invite because of the slaughter then occurring there.

There were no African or Arab states because there were no Arab or African states other than those listed.

Can you get anything right - except your Jew-hatred?
Posted by david singer, Thursday, 21 November 2013 5:23:28 PM
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Hi David Singer

Now turning to Amnesty International's Annual Report 2013 http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-2013 concerning end of 2012:

"Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories"

"The Israeli authorities held more than 4,500 Palestinian prisoners, including 178 administrative detainees at the end of the year, after a temporary decrease in numbers following Palestinian and international protests.

Torture and other ill-treatment of detainees during arrest and interrogation was reported. Israel’s military blockade of the Gaza Strip continued to severely affect Gaza’s 1.6 million residents.

[for balance] In November, Israel launched an eight-day military campaign against Palestinian armed groups who fired rockets indiscriminately from Gaza into Israel; more than 160 Palestinians as well as six Israelis were killed, including many civilians. Both sides violated international humanitarian law in the conflict.

The Israeli authorities continued to restrict the movement of Palestinians in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, construct the fence/wall, and expand illegal Israeli settlements while failing to protect Palestinians and their property from settler violence. They also continued to demolish Palestinian homes and carry out forced evictions.

The Israeli military continued to use excessive force against protesters in the Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT); in addition to 100 civilians killed during the November conflict in Gaza, Israeli forces killed at least 35 civilians in the OPT during the year.

Palestinian citizens of Israel faced discrimination in housing and residency rights, and continued home demolitions, particularly in the Negev/Naqab region. Thousands of people seeking international protection were detained administratively under a new law implemented in June. Israeli forces responsible for the killing and injuring of Palestinian civilians and torture and other ill-treatment of detainees continued to evade accountability."

Yes things are worse in Syria, but the point is that Israel is sponsored by the West making for high expectations concerning Israel's human rights record.

Pete
Posted by plantagenet, Thursday, 21 November 2013 6:01:35 PM
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