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The Forum > Article Comments > Pretence and posturing all the rage > Comments

Pretence and posturing all the rage : Comments

By Mark Christensen, published 21/6/2013

Noone can, or does, say what they really believe about relations between the sexes anymore.

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I was amused by the reaction to the non-Australian football coach who, when asked a difficult question by a female reporter, fended her off with a smile and a Latin quote from the Christian holy book that more or less told women to keep their opinions to themselves. It was erudite, funny and should have raised a laugh. Instead he was pilloried.
This begs the question - why aren't the holy books of Islam, Christianity and Judaism banned for their misogynistic content?
Posted by ybgirp, Friday, 21 June 2013 4:02:42 PM
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individual,

Don' be so coy.

Tell us more of the bloke who favoured pacifying drugs and genetic manipulation, who you think showed "sense", and whom "still is severely persecuted"?
Posted by Poirot, Friday, 21 June 2013 4:04:45 PM
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Mark, an interesting and insightful piece.

Elsewhere I've given my reasons for taking the position that Sattler had every right to ask that question. They haven't been challenged, but I've had lots of people assert they disagree, with no reasons for their disagreement given. In my opinion that disagreement is derived from the eusociality that underlies human social organisation and is itself based on the idea that a woman's primary social role is to breed, while that of a man is to protect the women and their children. We accept that some women prefer to enjoy the attentions of other women, but we know that many such women also choose to breed and so fulfil their eusocial function.By questioning Mathieson's sexuality, Sattler implied that Gillard is childless by choice, having chosen a man who is not a breeding prospect. IOW, she has abrogated her primary eusocial role.

I don't think any of this is at the conscious level and I suspect that few would agree that they are responding to a fundamental reflex within our eusocial species, but that doesn't make it wrong...

I was also impressed with the rest of your piece, which is saying some things I think are important. The male eusocial role is that of protector and one of the ways that his protective value can be demonstrated is by direct physical competition. In our effete world, where women are now workers and soldiers and police, with physical prowess replaced by the issue of a TASER or gun, masculine physicality has to be limited or we might start asking why we choose less effective protectors and who knows where it might lead.

Heavens, we might even question what feminism actually does to make life better...
Posted by Antiseptic, Friday, 21 June 2013 9:12:56 PM
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Interesting. I don't agree with much of what you say, but you present a case and offer some reasons to back it up. Personally, I had no problem with Sattler's question - until he started badgering Ms Gillard incessantly to see if she would change her answer. To me, it was as much an issue of an idiotic attempt at 'hard-hitting' journalism as it was an issue of inappropriate content. There is a section of our society that assumes old mate Tim is gay, and he asked a question on behalf of that section of society. He received a response and should have moved on - unless he was so unprofessional and ill-prepared that he had nothing to move on to. Honestly - in an election year, he gets the PM on the line and all he wants from her is an admission that her partner is, in fact, gay? Seriously?

I did think at the time that a suitable counter-attack for the pro-Sattlerites would have been to question what was so offensive about the question itself. Why is it insulting to Mathieson to ask if he is gay? Is homosexuality a flaw? Where's the PC lobby on that one?

As for your NRL discussion, I had a 14 year-old boy in my Year 9 class ask me the day after Origin why punching someone on the street is a crime but doing the same on a football field is not. I couldn't really offer an answer other than to say that it is a crime (am I wrong?) but generally gets overlooked because the victim signs up for it. But why do we televise and even celebrate violence but condemn kids for acting in the same manner?
Posted by Otokonoko, Friday, 21 June 2013 11:02:55 PM
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Hi Otokonoko, I have no idea of how the interview proceeded, I haven't seen it and doubt I will.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=5855#164761

I did ask what was offensive (although I'm no "pro-Sattlerite", I just like to think about things) and I was comprehensively ignored. that suggests to me that the responses being offered are not cognitive, but reflexively-derived and that the cognitive overlay is a rationalisation rather than a reason.

Your anecdote about the boy is also interesting. Our culture has, over the past 30 years, become one in which males are ever-more restricted in their expression of physicality. Yet it is that physicality that has allowed the species to prosper and has seen young men sent off to die in wars to protect the women and children at home. We even had Jeff Kennett telling us recently that if males want to preserve their mental health they must become more like women! Just as being a nurturer of children is an essential female quality, being a physically strong, brave and resourceful fighter is an essential male one. That is not to say that all men or all women fit those roles, but they are archetypes.

50 years of relentless demonisation of that archetype by feminist social constructionalists and their corporate funders have lead to male physicality being reduced to a stylised, highly-sanitised spectacle. Violence is acceptable in that milieu, but only insofar as it is clearly being limited. When I played Rugby at school, it was very common for boys to suffer serious injuries, from broken limbs, ribs, noses, etc, to deliberate gouging with the studs on boots. We used to sharpen them up on the concrete while watching early games before playing ourselves. GPS schoolboys, not low-SES kids from the wrong side of the tracks. I usually came off second best, as I was small for my age, but such is life. I got a few good shots in.

I don't know what to tell that boy. His question is existential.
Posted by Antiseptic, Friday, 21 June 2013 11:44:32 PM
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I think what Sattler asked of the PM was offensive, in that by suggesting her defacto partner was gay, he was suggesting her romantic relationship, and her living arrangements were a sham.

If you are a straight woman living with a gay man, then he must be her 'room-mate', not her lover or partner in life.

And then to continually repeat the question after she had already said no suggests Sattler thought she was lying.

It all sounds a bit offensive to me....
Posted by Suseonline, Saturday, 22 June 2013 12:41:24 AM
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