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The Forum > Article Comments > The lottery in which we all participate > Comments

The lottery in which we all participate : Comments

By Geoff Wall, published 27/3/2013

You might have a peaceful death, but then again, maybe not.

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If ever there was an idea whose time has come, it's this one.
VAS has two facts attached to it that get lost in the miasma of uncertainty and fear this topic engenders. The first is "voluntary". The next is the slowly dawning realisation that it is not those advocating for VAS that are trying to tell others how to live, and end, their lives.
I do so look forward to the day when common sense prevails.
Posted by halduell, Wednesday, 27 March 2013 7:43:01 AM
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Dying slowly and in agony is a fear that affects most intelligent adults especially in the latter years of their lives.

To know that you can opt out in a tranquil way would be a blessing. And to know that others constantly impede or frustrate this option angers many, including me!

Each person should have the right to decide what is best for them. Institutions that involve God-botherers should be excluded completely. They are already deranged.

Tranquil opting-out is a sign of a civilized, adult society.

Bring it on!
Posted by David G, Wednesday, 27 March 2013 9:01:52 AM
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A well written, non judgemental article on a difficult subject.

The legalizing of Voluntary Assisted Suicide (VAS) in 4 states in the US has shown there isn't mass killings of the old and disabled, as many pro-life advocates (aka religious supporters) predicted.

It has shown that only a tiny amount (1%) of the population have utilized the help of VAS in the event of an otherwise slow, agonizing death.

It is true that only an unlucky few have no chance of a 'good' death.
It is not only the unrelieved pain of some cancers that are responsible for some awful deaths, but the slow suffocation involved in some awful lung disorders such as COAD or emphysema is another horrendous way to die.

Without fail, regardless of any religious beliefs, or previous thoughts on euthanasia, those few people I have cared for that endure an awful death, beg all those around them to be put out of their misery.
I very often wish that I could legally help them to do so...
Posted by Suseonline, Wednesday, 27 March 2013 9:41:31 AM
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Alexander Downer agreed with Pope Francis that Euthanasia is not a choice of his, this is not surprising coming from a man who has excelled himself indirectly through his Government of Euthanising hundreds of civilians in Iraq and elsewhere, but of course that is different to him, it is not different.
Euthanasia as mentioned above is not to my liking at all, but VOLUNTARY EUTHANASIA is, it really irritates me when politicians like Downer have blinkers on their eyes, it is OK on the one hand but definately not when a person is in severe pain and loss of dignity and wants to die,this to me is compassion for that person.
How do we change the attitude of politicians? those who do not like VE do not have to participate at all, it is a choice that the rest of us should have.
Having written a letter to the "Advertiser" which was not printed because I presume Downers name was mentioned, and he writes articles for that paper, so naturally they wouldn't print it, censorship is alive and well where Newspapers are concerned.
Posted by Ojnab, Wednesday, 27 March 2013 11:35:28 AM
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Euthanising hundreds of civilians in Iraq and elsewhere,
Ojnab,
If you were to look into the situation in those countries you'd most likely find that those many innocent people weren't euthanised by outside forces at all. They were put up by their own cowards as cannon fodder to instigate trouble for some ideal they don't even have any idea about.
Euthanasia, when it becomes legal will of course be abused in the most appalling manner for people to get their hands on other peoples' money/property. Euthanasia is supposed to be a dignity thing for those who can no longer expect any quality of life, instead it'll be nothing more than a most undignified way of getting rid of old people who are supposedly in the way.
Posted by individual, Wednesday, 27 March 2013 9:49:24 PM
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If there is one issue for which religion is shunned, which carries people away from God and makes atheists celebrate, this is. The irony is that this issue has nothing truly to do with religion: religion is always about one's own actions and choices, not about telling others what to do or not.

The AMA is a Mafia, sharing power with the government and not caring for anyone, only for the power and control of their own guild.

Who ever counted the number of people in their 70's who, in fear of this lottery, killed themselves while still having the capacity to stage a road accident? Some of those could have possibly lived happily into their 90's and 100's!
Posted by Yuyutsu, Thursday, 28 March 2013 1:08:15 AM
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Perhaps people should take responsibility for themselves.

Anyone can order a NFR when entering hospital. This would be eminently practical for those with a terminal condition, or even not, and also those of older age, who may be currently well but worry about the possibility of having a stroke or heart-attack in the future.

Perhaps unfortunately, ambulance operatives automatically provide CPR and cannot be held by a NFR directive.

There is also the ability to refuse treatment and request, instead, palliative care. Such directives can be legally transmitted to a family member/friend acting on the patient's behalf, to institute in case of the patient not being in a state of mind to initiate for themselves.

It is unfair to put the onus on the medical profession to terminate life when individuals can make such decisions for themselves, and should do so.
Posted by Danielle, Thursday, 28 March 2013 3:50:13 PM
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Perhaps people should take responsibility for themselves.
Danielle,
Can you imagine how many people would not end up with stress-related illness if they were allowed to do that ?
Many people are ill as a result of authority induced stress, particularly those moron academic dreamed up social engineering schemes & corrupt law & lately utterly idiotic council regulation. If Government wants to so much control our lives then they can take on responsibility for our medical needs as well.
Posted by individual, Friday, 29 March 2013 12:28:06 PM
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individual,

Perhaps I would have agreed with you except for an event I experienced.

My mother, an extremely vain woman, physically active and independent, had a massive stroke in her early 80's. I was not there. The doctors told my brother that she was not a good candidate for keeping on life-support. If she survived which was doubtful, she would be a vegetable. However, my brother insisted. My mother survived; albeit paralyzed down one side of her body.

She told me later that she could hear the discussion between my brother and doctors, and also that between the doctors themselves. She desperately hoped they would do what was necessary for her to live. This was a woman who went into depression at the first sign of a wrinkle! A woman who had had two lots of plastic surgery.

In her position, I would have preferred the doctors do nothing, and let me die. If I had been with her when she was admitted to hospital, I would have requested that her life-support be turned off, believing that I would be complying with her wishes. And I would have been wrong.

She lived another six years bed-ridden and needing full-time care.

If nothing else, this demonstrated to me that people should make their own decisions ahead of time and let others know.
Posted by Danielle, Friday, 29 March 2013 4:48:21 PM
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Danielle,
Have you thought of what decision your mother would have made if it were her mother ?
Considering her vain nature.
Who ended up paying for the six years full time care ?
Posted by individual, Friday, 29 March 2013 7:10:11 PM
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individual,

I really don't know the answer to your question.

As stated, if I had been in her position, I would have wanted life-support turned off.

However, as it was, she didn't want this. Considering she could hear the conversations around her, I am glad that the decision hadn't been mine to make.
.
Does one have the right to believe, and act on it, that another's life is not worth saving - especially as that would have gone against a person's wishes. My mother never once complained about having to live the life she was condemned to. Some people are surprisingly stoic. Even under such conditions, they see life as worth living.

This is why I consider it necessary to have guidelines in place. I don't want another to make such a decision for me. As we hope to make our own decisions during life, I think we should also make them for end of life.
Posted by Danielle, Friday, 29 March 2013 8:18:22 PM
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Does one have the right to believe, and act on it, that another's life is not worth saving
Danielle,
I fully agree with you on that however, does anyone then have the right to demand the support from someone else ?
Why is it that others can demand that we support them but when we need support then suddenly these rights seem to disappear. Those who don't contribute but quite happily accept the support that comes from taxes we pay come to mind.
Posted by individual, Friday, 29 March 2013 9:24:50 PM
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individual,

I have directed that should I suffer a stroke, no matter how slight, I am not to be resuscitated. I am sure that many others feel the same way. In this case, public taxes would be saved. However, this is not the reason for my decision. Perhaps such decisions would balance out costs to the taxpayer of those needing care. I do not know.

I am curious. What do you believe? Should one put one's own directives in place, or leave it to others to decide for you?

My son-in-law is a Haematologist. Whilst he has encountered family members who want more than heroic measures to save a patient, he has also encountered those who desire treatment to cease although it was not in the patient's interest to do so. In other words, to unnecessarily hasten death.
Posted by Danielle, Friday, 29 March 2013 11:24:04 PM
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to unnecessarily hasten death.
Danielle,
I feel the same about having a stroke & having to exist in a sad & miserable manner, depending too much on others, making their life miserable also.
Where is that difference between letting death occur naturally or dragging it out artificially. Yes there are many, many instances where a stroke victim lived a quality life after a stroke but these are not what this is all about. Once you need to impose on others to forfeit their time to look after you permanently, then it should be considered to offer THEM a way out by humanely putting you to sleep permanently. In my opinion no-one has the right to impose so much on someone else, not even a spouse. I think I would feel so terrible that I'd actually want to be put away if I were to be so unfortunate to make my family suffer so much because of me. Even though money plays a major part in this once you need permanent care you've overstepped the mark. Very unfortunate but realistic. There are millions of healthy people dying every year because no-one gives them a handful of food which wouldn't cost more than a Dollar. Here we're discussing the spending of millions on a a handful of sick people. Where's tha balance. Life is sacred but not that sacred.
Posted by individual, Saturday, 30 March 2013 8:58:16 AM
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Thank you for a succinct article on the 'lottery' that we will all face. In his book 'The Needs of Strangers' Michael Ignatieff reminds us that there are few presumptions in human relations more dangerous than the idea that one knows what another needs better than they do themselves.
In the 21st century the necessity for any one of us to be forced to stare down the lottery of dying in intractable pain, fear or indignity is an odious form of tyranny perpetuated by the state, Church and medical establishment.
Just as we grieve for or honour those who have died untimely or futile deaths, so too should we reflect upon those who have, or are yet to be forced to endure the 'bad death' due to ideology being prioritised over compassion.
Posted by Julia Anaf, Monday, 1 April 2013 9:28:19 AM
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