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The Forum > Article Comments > Anti-Islam: is history repeating itself? > Comments

Anti-Islam: is history repeating itself? : Comments

By Ali Kazak, published 27/2/2013

Some of the causes of anti-Semitism were: a condemnation of the Jewish religion by some; a view that Jewish particularisms were a barrier to assimilation; and that Jews were not capable of integrating into the society in which they lived.

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Oh what utter tosh.

A continent that had seen the publication inter alia of Chrysostom's "Eight Homilies Against the Jews"(1) and Marlin Luther's "On the Jews and Their Lies" did not need von Treitschke to teach it to hate Jews.

Moreover there are a number of issues the author (conveniently?) overlooks.

--The Nazis did not go after Jews because of religion but because of what they considered "race." They defined a Jews as someone who had a single Jewish grandparent. Many of the "Jews" in Hitler's concentration camps did not consider themselves Jewish. In fact often the grandparent had converted to Christianity before the parents were born.

--The most vile, Jew hatred currently comes from the mouths of Muslims: eg:

>>THE Jews of yesterday are the evil forefathers of the even more evil Jews of today: infidels, falsifiers of words, calf worshippers, prophet murderers, deniers of prophecies ... the scum of the human race, accursed by Allah, who turned them into apes and pigs ... These are the Jews - an ongoing continuum of deceit, obstinacy, licentiousness, evil and corruption ... The insult to and contempt of Arabs, Muslims ... reaches its height at the hands of the rats of the world, the violators of agreements, in whose minds abide treachery, destruction and deceit and in whose veins flow occupation and tyranny.>>

The man who uttered these words has been invited to address a Muslim "Peace conference" in Melbourne. I am not aware that Wilders has ever said anything that even approaches this.

--Wilders attacks Islam as a belief system or ideology. Islam, like any other belief system is a legitimate target for critique, analysis, satire and scorn. There is nothing "racist" about it.

I am tired of Muslims playing the race card. You're not a race. You're adherents of a whacky belief system which is as much subject to critique as any other.

As for the crusades – gimme a break! It happened centuries ago.

For heavens sake stop whining and accept that in a secular democracy your belief system gets no more immunity than, say, Scientology.

(1)http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/chrysostom-jews6.asp

(2)http://www.humanitas-international.org/showcase/chronography/documents/luther-jews.htm
Posted by stevenlmeyer, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 8:53:32 AM
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It has become more than an issue of intolerance for religion; it is Islam itself that is intolerant of everything non-Islam and threatens global peace. There are not "moderate" Muslims... there are conservative Muslims, and their true understanding of Islam is in accord with the actions of the "extremists". There are as few "liberal" Muslims as we would account there to be extremists, and only these liberal Muslims can be expected to represent a non-literal following of the Koran (a literal following is the most barbaric thing in existence). The greatest thing a Muslim can do is become a martyr, and when Muslims conquer a people they declare the conquered people "kafir" and rape their women. They don't consider it rape, because they consider non-Muslims to be non-human. They nearly even consider Muslim females to be non-human, with half the value of a man and no right to divorce or to refuse sexual advances. If you want to understand what is now prompting this "Islamophobia", which is actually brought about by a clearer understanding of the real beast that is Islam, you should read the book "Leaving Islam" by Ibn Warraq. It recounts the stories of ex-Muslims that lost their faith, though in Islam all "out" apostates are executed (murdered).

It is literally Muslims against the world, but the media of the USA tries desperately to paint Islam as a peaceful religion. It is far from peaceful, and its core is black. Until you understand what Islam truly represents, you will not understand that it is the very antitheses of human rights and dignity that the modern world strives to maintain and to increase. It is the enemy of the world, and even of its own people. I urge you to read at least the book "Leaving Islam" if nothing else... hear from those who would truly know, and not journalists or news sources that would not dare criticize Islam publicly. I'm an atheist and have my own problems with religion, but Islam is to the rest of the world what Nazism was to Jews.
Posted by Bodhi, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 9:22:31 AM
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The difference between the Islamic and Christian Peoples and their Nations ?

Firstly Christianity went through a Reformation in the 16th Century, Islamic people are still awaiting for theirs to occur.

Secondly the Western ,Christian , World had The Renaissance at the same time. The Islamic Nations , in the main , are still waiting for theirs to occur .

Also I am a member of the second largest Religious group in Australia. No , I am not a Muslim, I am an Atheist, I believe in Morality and Ethics, but as for any organized Religion... Pass
Posted by Aspley, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 9:26:55 AM
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ALL monotheistic religions are 'totalitarian ideologies' -- how could they possibly be otherwise? If you believe your God has laid down rules that are more important than mere bodily survival, then it's incumbent on you to make sure everyone around you either follows those rules or dies. It's either that or stop believing.

Islam is only attempting to do exactly what Catholicism attempted to do to Europe and South America six hundred years ago, what Puritanism attempted to do under Cromwell, and what various Protestant princes attempted to do in the provinces and states in which they had power. Any religious believer who takes their moral obligations seriously can do nothing else. That is why they have to be deconverted.

The slow retreat of religion in the West has not been due to any real change in the beliefs or goals of the majority of believers, but to their decline in numbers and increasing competition from alternative world-views. Islam must retreat in the same way -- in fact it IS retreating in most Western states including Australia -- or collapse back to the Middle Ages, possibly taking the rest of civilisation with it. I'm optimistic that now the West has shown the way towards secularism, Islam may die out in a couple of centuries or less; but meanwhile it can do a great deal of harm, particularly while it has a disproportionately large cohort of young, disaffected, sexually repressed and poorly educated males to call on for its dirty work.
Posted by Jon J, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 9:34:46 AM
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For the umpteenth forking time, Moslems do not constitute a "race" anymore than Christians or Buddhists--do Moslem propagandists really believe that, or is it an attempt to engage as allies the Multiculturalist lobby and the more gullible "anti-racists".
Islam, like all religions is (1) an ideology and (2) a totalitarian threat to liberal democracy. Therefore criticism of Islam is legitimate, sprinkling it with the pixie dust of "religion" doesn't make any difference to its sinister doctrines.

As to the Crusades, they were a minor counter-attack in the 1000 year war Moslems waged against European civilisation which a only stopped when the West was too powerful to attack.
If Islam had won the struggle we would still be a the developmental level of 12th century Egypt.

Moslems should ask themselves why they migrated to Australia or any Western nation-- wasn't it to enjoy the benefits or infidel civilisation?
We cannot allow Moslems to reproduce the political, economic and social conditions that prevail in Islamic societies.

We're waiting Mr Kazak, let's have a dialogue on Islam's place in progressive societies.
Posted by mac, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 10:36:01 AM
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All good points Jon J:

...But it is a view from a very high flying aeroplane. Meanwhile back on the ground, Australia's excessive promotion of immigration with its "everything is beautiful" through Multicultural propaganda overtones is a failure. This is an immigration policy run on strict lines of Capital benefit with scant regard for its impact on society.

...Australia needs to stop for a breath!
Posted by diver dan, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 10:37:30 AM
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I do not mind if Geert really speaks from his heart and own convictions about Islam n Muslims. But if you notice his concern is not Islam, his concern is any body raising their voice against the jews, rightly or wrongly as u can observe his persistent repeated reference to the alleged anti-semitism.

The problem is he is a jewish zionist Hasbarat i.e. agent for the Zionist Propaganda Machine; while the common jews are just fair n dinkum good guys like the common christians or muslims, the zionists (both christian and jewish) are waging a war against Islam which they believe inspired the Palestinian (muslims) to raise their voice against zionist Israeli atrocities

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeLs6C2hYC8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MgSUnq7_5Y

http://maxblumenthal.com/2010/12/the-great-islamophobic-crusade/

http://www.rabbimaller.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCKWDarNdGw&feature=related

And who says we have a right of free speech in Australia? We do not have a constitutional Bill of Rights to provide right of free speech. Also right of free speech is not a right to spread hatred. And if you still believe in right of free speech, just try to speak about holocaust revisionist history and expect ASIO banging on your door. Why else do you think David Irving is being refused entry to Australia

http://www.fpp.co.uk/Australia/index.html

Freedom of Speech: APPLICABLE ONLY WHEN IT APPLIES TO MUSLIM BASHING
Posted by JGandhi, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 12:01:50 PM
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The writer ignores the fundamental difference between Judaism and militant Islam as far as Australia is concerned, which is that at present there are no Jews planning and mounting violent attacks against the West.

If you watch the film "Back of Beyond" from 1963 (about the Birdsville postman) you will detect no trace of objection to Bejah and the other muslims living in Marree. That is because they were not considered a threat. It was only when militant Islam, in the person of the Ayatollah, burst on the world scene that the threat became apparent.

If you go back to the 1920's there was considerable resentment against Irish Catholics, due to their fenian practice of letting off bombs and killing people. The resentment is not against races or religions, but against people who wish to employ violence to gain their ends. Unfortunately it only takes a few extremists to blacken the reputation of a whole community.

If immigrants, whether from Serbia or the Middle East would only do what almost all Australians desire, which is to leave all their conflicts behind when they come here, we could all live in peace.
Posted by plerdsus, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 12:41:25 PM
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Mr Kazak thinks no one should have any more rights than another in Australia, except aboriginal people? Wow! How do I explain this to my Australian born children? Apparently we are all equal but some are a bit more equal than others.
I understand the anti Wilders demonstrators standing up for freedom and human rights by bashing up some old people, well done!

Please leave your hatreds and supremacist ideas at our borders. Personally I think all religion is a pestilence on the Earth and yes it is all the same junk from Christianity to Scientology.
Posted by JBowyer, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 12:41:48 PM
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Kazak
"It is ironic that the visiting Dutch MP Geert Wilders is today unashamedly launching exactly the same propaganda campaign, but replacing Jews with Muslims."

This is unequivocally incorrect.

The Nazis "scientific" basis was grounded in two modes of thought:
1. Racial science.
2. Romantic nationalism.

The disagreement today is between Islam and the modern world, or what is called liberalism.
Islam is political theology grounded in a 7th century transcendent metaphysics, where submission to Allah is of the highest importance. Liberalism, on the other hand, is about negative freedom; that is, freedom from restraint.

The insertion of "race" into the discussion is to throw mud on the opposition in the hope of silencing them. Islam cannot be defended on intellectual or cultural grounds, and the Islamists and leftists know it (this is why you never see this angle taken as a defence of Islam), so they attempt to discredit and silence opposition through shaming language.
Posted by Aristocrat, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 12:57:13 PM
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JGandhi,
This is the fact of the matter, All we can do is repeat over and over again the key about Wilders and his true motivations.
1.He is interested only in furthering the interests of the state of Israel and the political ambitions of Jewish and gentile neoconservatives
2. He is funded and promoted by Neocon interests based in the U.S.A, namely David Horowitz, Pamela Geller, Daniel Pipes and Robert Spencer, people whose ignominious roles in building the case for the unjust Iraq War are well known.
There is a "Jewish Question" here but it's not perceived in the way that the clearly anti Racist author has framed it.We hear these conspiracy theories about Jewish bankers or Jewish this and that but the fact is that Jews and Gentiles have worked together for centuries, certainly for profit but in the main their projects have been beneficial to the wider community, the building of Australia from a small colony to a first world democracy was one such collaboration.
However there is undeniably a bad element whose activities cause nothing but harm and misery for those they touch, Communists, Anarchists and lately Neoconservatives do no good in the world and mightily annoy even working class people with little interest in the big picture issues.
The problem for ordinary Jews is that down through history these rogue elements, these "idle intellects" as Herzl called them make such a nuisance of themselves and wreak such havoc that anti Semitism builds to a point where it explodes into the inevitable Pogrom.

It's true, the majority of Jews who suffered under the Nazis had done nothing wrong and the Jewish Communists and Anti Fascists who really did get under Hitler's skin by killing people and blowing things up mostly escaped Europe before the hammer came down anyway.
Continues:
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 1:14:58 PM
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Cont:The anti Racist/anti Fascist rants against Wilders are childish and their accusations baseless, the comparison to Nazism is pointless since virtually nobody outside academic or hobbyist historian circles knows anything about the Third Reich beyond the most simplistic trivia and urban myths.
Comparing Wilders to Hitler is wrong, comparing him to Goebbels is instructive only if one understands where Goebbels stood in relation to the other players in the Nazi hierarchy and had examined his essays and speeches.
I've expressed a conviction that Wilders and his benefactors are leading their followers straight to hell and that if in the unlikely event that they did gain any sort of power on the continent they would provoke another disastrous European War.
Why do I hold that conviction?
Because that group of people were up to their necks in the unjust Iraq war and are beating the drums against Iran and the 44 million Muslims living in Europe, war is their gig and anyone who follows them is on a path to their doom.
There is a need for Europeans to confront radical Islamists and ethnic gangs, Wilders isn't the man to turn to for solutions because he isn't loyal to ordinary Europeans and doesn't have their best interests at heart.
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 1:34:19 PM
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Much though I dislike Wilders and his bigotry, I completely disagree with Ali Kazac.

The "ugly face of fascism" does not lie with a handful of ideological crackpots trying to organise a speaking tour for a rather loopy politician. It is the thugs and bullies that threatened operators of venues that presumed to host Wilders, and most especially in those people that threatened and manhandled members of the public trying to get in to see Wilders. This is most emphatically not an Australia we can be “proud of”.
Posted by Rhian, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 2:27:23 PM
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Islam has to do 2 things; declare the supremacy of the secular legal and political structure of the West, and secondly fess upto and declare complete resistance to the abominations committed in its name.

In the meantime the author should address the participants, their statements about the West, Jews and Sharia law and mission of the advertised Peace Conference and Mission described here:

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/if_wilders_is_wrong_explain_this_conference/

I am sick of Islam adopting the mantle of the victim.
Posted by cohenite, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 2:53:19 PM
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diver dan,
After reading many of your other posts on other threads I can hardly believe that I agrre with your post here.

The ideology of multiculturalism is a failuere here, as elsewhere, In fact i argues that we are multiracial but not multicultural. We expect all to abide by OUR social standards and laws. The sooner MC is dead and buried the better.

The article of this thread is all rubbish. Muslims are the ones spruking hatred of our society and seeking change. They claim to be offended by many things we do and want immumity from any critisism.

In fact muslims should be asked why do they come to a country run by infidels. Why do they come to be offended by our way of life. I doubt you would get an honest answer from them. The truth being that they want to enjoy the freedoms and luxuries of western world and they see themselves as 'pioneers for Islam' and set about changing us to the hellholes they came from.

We see what is happening in Europe and the UK and we do not want to tread that path. Yes, select only immigrants that have demonstrated they will integrate. say No to the few that cause us trouble.
Posted by Banjo, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 3:14:13 PM
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Banjo, why indeed would they want to come here?
I suspect that the clannish behaviour and refusal to even integrate, much less assimilate is mostly genetic with Islam playing the minor role in this issue.
We sometimes overlook our own European past to the extent that other people and their ways of life seem incomprehensible.
Due to the influence of Christianity more and more Europeans have been marrying out over the last 1200 or so years, we generally marry people who are not closely related to us, even selecting mates from far flung ethnic groups, my wife for example is half Czech half English.
This is not the case in much of the third world, when we examine the way these "Muslim" enclaves and clans are calcifying in our cities we have to understand that some of their ethnic groups and clans are effectively made up of cousins.
Let me explain the theory, it's said that generally speaking two people from the same ethnic group which does not permit or condone marriage to second cousins are genetically related as uncle is to nephew, in reality it's often further than that.
In some (but not all) Muslim ethnic groups or clans there is a preference for FBD, father's brother's daughter pairings, we'd not be overstepping the mark in saying that this must have at least some effect on intelligence, temperament, psychological stability around other groups and emotional mobility.
As I said, it's a theory but short of genetically testing people or demanding a family tree from immigrant brides and grooms what could be done to ensure that highly endogamous groups don't settle here and simply transplant their way of life into a setting where it's not going to be tolerated?
Obviously not all clans are the same,but some are problematic from a western point of view so what is the immigration department doing about identifying and weeding out potentially disruptive extended families and ethnic groups before they land here and can't be deported?
My guess would be nothing.
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 3:58:13 PM
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As a non-post-modernist and therefore unskilled in the black art of deconstruction of texts, I regard words as meaning exactly what they say. I can find nothing in Wilders talk as relayed through the media as being characteristic of “hate speech.”
I am aware that Islam and Muslim are like Christianity and Judaism and in as all large religious groupings are a heterogenic collection of sects and sub sects. Indeed not infrequently the intra -religious hatreds and contempt exceeds in intensity any extra –religious rivalry.
Wilders is wrong in believing that there is only one possible interpretation of Islam. To my knowledge he does not discuss the propensity for Chia Islam to bomb members of Sonny Islam and vice versa.
Wilders is correct in recognising that there is a powerful and dangerous interpretation of Islam that is at variance with the concept of a free and liberal society.
The Islam of violent Jihad against non-believers is a reality. This may well be a minority viewpoint; but real it is. In the 1920s and 30s Hitler’s movement was a minority. I am sure many reasonable people in Germany of the time despised their creed. However, backed by an urban terrorist organisation (The Brown Shirts) Nazism eventually came into its own. Further many moderates including the aged President Hindenburg believed that they could control the mobsters. How wrong they were!
Posted by anti-green, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 4:12:41 PM
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Anti Green,
True, the Nazis comprised only about 15% of the German population.
Again we find a valid comparison between Nazism and Islamism but still it's still beyond the understanding of the average person who can only understand history through the medium of fiction.
Islamists aren't stupid, the psychological and demographic profile of the Jihadi matches that of any other young radical or revolutionary including the Sturmabteilung, what makes them dangerous is their ability to fire up the "low elements" of society.
During what became known as Kristallnacht it's known that only a small percentage of the organised SA unit commanders ordered their men to attack Jews and their property, however individual SA men and small groups went to the taverns and the less salubrious areas of town and were able to raise mobs of ruffians who rioted and caused mayhem.
We saw the same effect in Sydney last year, there were certainly Jihadists leading the demonstrations but the fracas erupted when this "low element" of Lebanese society felt emboldened by the crowd and began attacking Police.
We saw also the reprisal attacks by Lebanese gangs after the Cronulla disturbances and the inability of the state to deal with those rolling, guerrilla style attacks.
What's obvious is that the government,the Police and even the armed forces cannot handle asymmetrical warfare, what if there were 100 or 1,000 men waging a real violent Jihad in this country? Our "tolerant and pluralistic" society cannot cope with insurrection and loss of life, look at how severely the Bali bombings have traumatised White Australia, our armed forces are powerless against guerrillas even when backed up by the most advanced weapons systems and have to resort to bribing Afghan tribal chiefs in order to do their jobs.
As long as the Australian government can still bribe Muslims in Western Sydney into ratting on each other and playing off one groups against another the status quo will stand but as soon as local Muslims fear the Jihadis more than they fear the law there will be big trouble.
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 9:10:44 PM
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Jay, you may be interested in this discussion of Islam consanguinity:

http://www.educationnews.org/political/terrorism/104826.html
Posted by cohenite, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 10:02:49 PM
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Wow! So many lucid responses. I don't know that there's any more I can offer, other than a few points that irked me about the author's clumsy attempt at historiography.

Firstly, as has already been pointed out, antisemitism was rife long before the 1880s. I think it was Claudius who declared the expulsion of the Jews (and the Isis-worshipers) from Rome, scapegoating them in a time of civil unrest. If the expulsion was followed through (which it probably wasn't), it was carried out on the grounds of the Jews' foreignness, rather than their religion. They were non-Romans and could be booted out with little fuss. That's also why the Jews tended to live across the Tiber from the city itself. They were foreign. Anti-Jewish tendencies have long been founded on race rather than religion: the 'undesirability' of Jews ('dirty foreigners') coupled with their non-evangelistic tendencies gives the race argument legs. Islam is an evangelising religion and has no racial homogeneity: a comparison of Bosniaks and Pakistanis demonstrates that adequately.

Thus the Jews were hated for their detachment, while those who despise Islam often do so because of a belief that Muslims wish to impose their beliefs and values on others. For a small minority, this may be true:

http://stream.aljazeera.com/story/201302062143-0022530

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-05-17/muslim-group-wants-sharia-law-in-australia/2717096

The other one that surprised me was the assertion that the Crusades were prompted by a zealous hatred of Muslims. On the surface, the argument seems reasonable. However, the Crusades were ostensibly about safeguarding pilgrimages to the Holy Land. They were more likely about seizing a perceived opportunity to plunder at will (to put it briefly). Had Palestine been taken over by Zoroastrians or Buddhists, Christendom would probably have reacted in the same way.

Just my two cents' worth.
Posted by Otokonoko, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 11:54:48 PM
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One thing that the author, Wilders and many posters (on both sides) have in common is their tendency to over-react, exaggerate, generalise and abandon any sense of perspective.

To take an extreme example and make it seem representative of the whole or to argue over the semantics of words like "racism" is unreasonable at best.

I'm waiting for somebody to offer up some sort of Final Solution because there are simply no options left that would satisfy everybody.
Posted by wobbles, Thursday, 28 February 2013 1:04:08 AM
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It is all just a big game to distract us from the real issues of monetary enslavement.

The real intent of bringing multiple cutures to Aust was to keep wages low and divided so the elites could cream it off the top.

I see no differnence between extreme elements of Islam,Christianity or those of the Jewish faith.

Islam was demonised to justify the theft of Oil and Resources.Obama has swapped his attention to China/Russia,much to the displeasure of Israel,since China/Russia are winning the peace.

It is all a big game,Zibigniew Brezezinski "The Grand Chessboard" so a few elites can own and control most of us.
Posted by Arjay, Thursday, 28 February 2013 6:27:32 AM
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Ali Kazak is speaking from experience - his own people are treated like sub-humans, and so I admire him for speaking against anti-Jewish as well as anti-Muslim hate speech.

Making 'fine points' about whether a group is defined by 'religion' or 'race' is just a distraction from the main dynamic here - pick on a vulnerable group, blame them for 'problems' which have far wider causes, and then seek political power by attacking anyone who defends the victim group.

Unfortunately most of the comments are supporting the current fashion - attack Muslims, attack people from the Middle East. In the 1980s it was attack 'Asians'.

Democratic people stand up for equality and tolerance, and these were basic issues in World War II. Perhaps some of the commentators who disagree with Ali Kazak claim to be 'patriots'. If so they should ponder which side they would have been on in World War II. Whatever their answer to that question, we should all remember that over 50 million people were killed in World War II, so don't repeat it.
Posted by Peter Murphy, Thursday, 28 February 2013 7:53:43 AM
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Peter Murphy wrote:

>>Making 'fine points' about whether a group is defined by 'religion' or 'race' is just a distraction from the main dynamic here>>

Not it isn't. It's a very important distinction.

Islam is a belief system.

Are you saying Islam, unlike any other belief system in Australia, should be immune from critique, analysis, satire and scorn?

If Islam is granted immunity, what other belief system should enjoy such immunity? How about Catholicism or Zionism or Marxism?

How about Scientology?

Or how about the ideology of the Liberal party?

What are the criteria for granting immunity to a belief system?

People are entitled to their beliefs but attacking Islam, Catholicism, Judaism, Zionism and atheism among others is part of the normal discourse in a secular democracy.

To talk of Islam-ophobia is as ridiculous as talking about Catholic-ophobia, Judaism-ophobia, Zionism-ophobia and atheism-ophobia.
Posted by stevenlmeyer, Thursday, 28 February 2013 8:31:17 AM
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Peter Murphy,

You've made a category mistake and missed the point entirely, the distinction between religion and race is critical to the discussion. Most people who comment here have no objection to Moslems as individuals but are conceded at the influence of Islam on liberal democratic society, as earlier generations were, in regard to communism or any other totalitarian ideology.
A straw man argument that you've presented is that critics of Islam are racist and necessarily supporters of current Western policy towards the ME, many are not.

Which would you prefer to be, a Moslem in a Western nation or a non-Moslem in a majority Moslem society? One of the sources of friction in our society is the inability of some Moslems to accept the fact that Islam is just another religion and that they're no longer members of the ruling caste.

Those of us who are informed in regard to Islam and its history know what the real distraction is and it's "race".
Posted by mac, Thursday, 28 February 2013 11:41:36 AM
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The essence of this discussion is that any political ideology that is disciplined authoritarian in nature and backed by militant thuggery is a threat to the “Open Society.”

In to-days world that threat is from Jihadists and Militant Islam.

My reading of Karl Popper, “The Open Society and its Enemies” suggests that the template for all totalitarian ideologies was none other than “Plato’s Republic.”
Posted by anti-green, Thursday, 28 February 2013 12:46:00 PM
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Promoters of hatred? So why doesn’t Mr. Kazak start with the hate and violence in the Quran and hadith against non-Muslims? In fact, more verses are dedicated to maligning infidels than any other theme in that book. Allah says that non-Muslims are animals, or lower than animals (25:44 , 7:176, 8:55). Note also that Mohammad, a man who dedicated 10 years of his life to attacking, looting, raping, murdering and enslaving nonMuslim men women and children, is their great moral example. Perhaps, who knows, this explains the hate, violence and discrimination practiced by Muslims everywhere they dominate. It is not a few “bad” (a trivial minority) but all Muslims that accept this hate and violence, and none of them have the courage or honesty to examine their own writing, history and practices. They must, instead, make stupid excuses and blame everything on others.

Does this bother Kazak? No. What Kazak calls “anti-Islam” is nothing more than telling the truth about Islam, its theory and practice.

Notice that Kazak promises “animosity, hostility, division and violence to Australian society” for the simple reason that people say things Muslims don’t like. Not once does he examine the actual text of the so-called 'hate speech'. Why? Because Wilders quotes Islam’s own texts and talks about Muslim behavior. Facts!

A link and text…

http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/Global-Viewpoint/2013/0124/Why-Middle-East-Muslims-are-taught-to-hate-Jews?nav=90-csm_category-storyList

Quote: All over the Middle East, hatred for Jews and Zionists can be found in textbooks for children as young as 3, complete with illustrations of Jews with monster-like qualities. Mainstream educational television programs are consistently anti-Semitic. In songs, books, newspaper articles, and blogs, Jews are variously compared to pigs, donkeys, rats, and cockroaches, and also to vampires and a host of other imaginary creatures. Unquote.

And it is not just the jews, it is all non-Muslims they hate. In large numbers, Muslims cannot live in peace with nonMUslims. They will try to impose their vile theology and practice. Mohammed's values are not "Western" values. AS I have said before, this will not end well.
Posted by kactuz, Thursday, 28 February 2013 1:38:28 PM
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Ah kactuz,

Great post --good to see you back on line
Posted by SPQR, Thursday, 28 February 2013 2:44:04 PM
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Peter Murphy.
Your post is a text book example of how fiction and urban myths about WW2 distort people's understanding of the present.
WW2 was NOT fought over "Tolerance" or anything of the sort, along with the so called Holocaust those concepts are the post facto justification given to Americans to explain why 400,000 of their men had to die in a war that did not concern them in the first place. The second European war erupted because of the intolerable conditions placed on Germany by the League Of Nations, Polish and French belligerence toward Germany and the break up of the Austro Hungarian empire, the ideas of "Justice", "freedom" and "democracy are products of this mindset of American exceptionalism and the "Good War".

Why is it that nobody ever talks about the other war in this context, you know, the actual, honest to god race war which raged in Asia between 1937 and 1945?
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Thursday, 28 February 2013 3:12:58 PM
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If Ali Kazak is in any way representative of Palistinians, his anti-democratic religious prejudices destroys my last vestige of support for a "two state solution".
Posted by Leslie, Saturday, 2 March 2013 12:09:06 PM
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Kactuz wrote

>>Note also that Mohammad, a man who dedicated 10 years of his life to attacking, looting, raping, murdering and enslaving nonMuslim men women and children, is their great moral example.>>

This raises an interesting question. I used to think that unlike, say, Moses, there could be no doubt that Muhammad actually existed.

Turns out the evidence for his existence is dodgy. There may never have been such a person as Muhammad. The koran is not a reliable source and the is no contemporaneous evidence for his existence. The word "Muhammad" could simply be a title given to someone who is revered.

See:

The Hidden Origins of Islam: New Research Into Its Early History by Karl-Heinz Ohlig (Editor), Gerd-R Puin (Editor)

http://www.amazon.com/Hidden-Origins-Islam-Research-History/dp/1591026342

Islam shows every sign of being a manufactured religion like Scientology or Mormonism. The koran itself seems to be a cocktail of texts taken from the bible, the Talmud, various Christian hymns and such like with a few added bits thrown in

The ahadith range from the outrageous to the ridiculous.

Eg

Bukhari Book 041, Number 6985

>>Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.>>

Or

Sahih Muslim 5562

'>>Amir b. Sa'd reported on the authority of his father that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) commanded the killing of geckos, and he called them little noxious creatures.>>
Posted by stevenlmeyer, Saturday, 2 March 2013 3:29:41 PM
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