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The Forum > Article Comments > Evolutionary conundrums for believers > Comments

Evolutionary conundrums for believers : Comments

By Glen Coulton, published 23/1/2013

If God wanted hordes of us humans hanging out in heaven with him, why didn't he just put us there from the word go?

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GlenC
"Do you have evidence to support this or are you happy just to spit out mindless, childish insults about the way atheists smell without bothering about their truth? And do you not see the implication of your admission that atheists are already a majority in workplaces like yours?" Tell me, what actually is their truth? I want to hear it.

The evidence is my experience at work in the public service while living in a Post Christian world. You should look up Rerum Novarum (a Pope Leo XIII Encyclical) - it's about social justice in the workplace. It is still relevant today. One of the duties of employers is "to respect the dignity of workers and not regard them as slaves". I've felt like a public slave. They only reward psychophants. There is so much dishonesty at my work going on.

"And do you not see the implication of your admission that atheists are already a majority in workplaces like yours?" What are you trying to say here? That I just have to live with it??

I've only recently realised that the people I have trusted over the years tend to be Christians or at least have Christian values. I've been in the wilderness for years and have only recently gone back to church for solace. I have been rehabilitating for about 20mths now after a hellish few years I had in the workplace. Now that I am recovered, I am contemplating a way out of my workplace oppression.
Posted by Constance, Saturday, 26 January 2013 9:29:07 PM
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GlenC "(a) you choose very carefully what you don't want to read"

I'm referring to OLO articles and discussions, which unfortunately there seems to be a "new" one of this type every couple of days.
I force myself to read all of them.

"I'm sorry [No, you're not] for not responding to your questions but I found them so all over the place and unconnected that the task was beyond the space allowed in a post — and my stamina."

What a cop-out.
My responses are conveniently divided into bite-sized segments, just to make them easy to chew for little babies.

The bull-free interpretation: You know I'm not Christian, so you know I'm not going to follow their routine, and none of your usual bag of tricks will work on me.
Too hard, just ignore.
Posted by Shockadelic, Sunday, 27 January 2013 2:10:37 AM
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Constance
<"Do you have evidence to support this or are you happy just to spit out mindless, childish insults about the way atheists smell without bothering about their truth?" Tell me, what actually is their truth? I want to hear it.>

When people make claims that something improbable exists (examples, fairies and gods) or that something implausible works for (example homeopathic "medicine" and prayer), the onus is always on them to prove their claim. The truth is that despite thousands of years of searching, no believer has produced a fairy or a god for us to look at or compelling circumstantial evidence that one exists, and nobody has proved that homeopathy or pray work. In fact, the best known modern controlled attempts to prove that intercessory prayer works found no evidence that it does.

Unlike many who value faith over evidence and who will never change their views, atheists would change their belief in a flash if evidence indicated they needed to. Fundamentalist typically won't budge from what they have decided is "truth", irrespective of the evidence.

I do know about Rerum Novarum. I spent 13 years being indoctrinated in Catholic schools. It makes sense.

<One of the duties of employers is "to respect the dignity of workers and not regard them as slaves". I've felt like a public slave. They only reward psychophants. There is so much dishonesty at my work going on.>

I totally sympathise and partly agree. It was like this for a time in my workplace except that it was the believers on top and religious sycophants who prospered.

Please understand that most atheists are not the slightest concerned about people holding religious beliefs unless they try to impose them on us or penalise us for not sharing them
Posted by GlenC, Sunday, 27 January 2013 11:04:54 AM
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Constance (continued)
<"And do you not see the implication of your admission that atheists are already a majority in workplaces like yours?" What are you trying to say here? That I just have to live with it?>

No. Merely that the proportion of atheists in most western populations (even America!!) is growing.

<Now that I am recovered, I am contemplating a way out of my workplace oppression.>

If you are saying that becoming a believer has improved your health (and you are not hectoring non-believers to adopt your views) then I'm happy for you and hope that you continue to find the peace I'm been lucky enough to know since I threw off the yoke of my religious upbringing. And if you are not a religious proselytizer, then you are not a target of mine.
Posted by GlenC, Sunday, 27 January 2013 11:06:56 AM
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GlenC,

It is so banal you guys are forever asking for evidence. Oh the poor fairies - how evil they are - right? Gods have been going around the world since Adam was a boy. I can never understand the obtuseness of all you fundies. It must just be the spiritual gene missing in your makeup, and you and they always end up picking on the poor fairies. Give them a break, will you. Oh can’t have them getting near the kiddies. Children hate them, don’t they? You fundies don’t seem to have any understanding of beauty, myths and human nature.

I worked for a Catholic organization for 5 yrs when I was a non- practicing RC. It was a particular cause (not prosyletizing) that I was attracted to. It was the most interesting and best job and best organization I ever worked for. I’m only looking back now. Hell, we even had an in-house band.

Well, my prayers were answered, and I did see signs. And I shan’t explain. I have a very open mind and my perception is pretty sharp. What are you looking for, apparitions? Life is full of subtleties. If your senses and mind are not open, you’ll never see anything.

Evelyn Waugh explained that his conversion followed his realisation that life was "unintelligible and unendurable without God".
/Cont...
Posted by Constance, Monday, 28 January 2013 8:39:39 PM
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GlenC,
“I totally sympathise and partly agree. It was like this for a time in my workplace except that it was the believers on top and religious sycophants who prospered.” It didn’t happen to be a religious organization that you were working for, was it? Someone actually told me on Australia Day, that it was an disclosed policy in the public service that Catholics could never rise in the ranks, and she remembered one particular Catholic who was very popular among staff and wondered why he never got promoted. Is this because Catholicism has a very egalitarian ethos?

“Unlike many who value faith over evidence and who will never change their views, atheists would change their belief in a flash if evidence indicated they needed to. Fundamentalist typically won't budge from what they have decided is "truth", irrespective of the evidence” That’s because the those who value faith have seen the light – why would they change their view. That would be a pretty dumb thing to do.

Why is it they say the happiest people in the world are nuns. That was even mentioned in a talk on health we had recently at work. I’m pretty amazed it got through, actually. Lucky there weren’t any militant atheists around - they might have sued the department for proselytizing. The nuns were my feminist heroes. The first of the female careerists. Now I hate the word, careerist or carreer. Now it’s all changed. Having a vocation is much more noble.

So you were indoctrinated with Rerum Novarum, that made sense to you??

You still haven’t commented on the article on the political scientists research undertaken that Christians overall are nicer people??

Now don’t get paranoid, I’m not trying to convert you.
Posted by Constance, Monday, 28 January 2013 8:43:13 PM
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