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The Forum > Article Comments > Social instability and the price of energy > Comments

Social instability and the price of energy : Comments

By Julie Bishop, published 17/1/2013

The Arab oil states run on cheap oil and disruption of these supplies could herald social unrest.

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Oh, here is a relevant matter.
I had a test drive of a fully electric car yesterday.
Absolutely brilliant car. Mind you it gave me a fright when I got out
onto the road and accelerated, talk about neck snapping !
Dead quiet, smooth as silk acceleration, 4 door hatchback with plenty
of room for five. No starting just switch forward on and it moves off
when you take you foot off the brake. Bit disconcerting different
routine when getting underway.

All sorts of great features, phone network accessibility etc etc.

Still even the demo model was $17,000 dearer than new ones in the US
at $45,000.
So the great Aussie ripoff is still running.
Posted by Bazz, Sunday, 20 January 2013 4:30:03 PM
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Bazz,

Some good points but I think you might have missed my point about diversification since you didn’t include the rest of my sentence.

“Spindoc said;
The industrial impact that Germany, the UK and the USA will have as they shift to Shale,”

The bit you missed was “Gas and in the case of Germany Coal” I’m definitely not suggesting that shale explorations will “replace” anything, only that it has now become part of the diversification of the energy mix.

Germany is spooling down it’s nuclear but is burning more coal. The new build program is for 20 new coal fired power stations. Germany’s profile is coal - 47.3% (within this, lignite - 24.5% and hard coal - 22.8%). They import most of their hard coal but burn lignite from the former East Germany. Coal use has been growing at 2.3% p. a since 2007.

The UK on the other hand has a new build program of 30 gas fired power stations with 10 to be in service by 2019. The USA will supplement its energy mix with shale products and will simply export more coal and oil.

It’s the diversification and supplementing that have already changed the global energy paradigm, this does not imply, nor do I think Julie Bishop is implying, that shale products will “replace” any significant consumption, but it has already changed the market.

The changed dynamic of the global energy markets are already impacting Gulf States and Julie is spot on, they have spoon fed their people on oil revenue subsidies when they should have spoon fed their non oil economy. Now they face higher costs and lower revenues just like the rest of the world.

P.S, that electric car you drove? It doesn’t happen to plug into the coal fired electricity grid by any chance?
Posted by spindoc, Monday, 21 January 2013 8:45:52 AM
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Understood Spindoc.
There are signs that shale is already peaking in the US, and that will
certainly be the case if the rig count continues to fall.
I notice also that the pipeline people are refusing to connect the
shale fields to the pipeline networks and are sending shale oil by
rail which is a lot more expensive. see;

http://www.resilience.org/stories/2013-01-15/crude-by-rail-does-it-really-make-sense

Some forecasts are for shale fields to be finished in the next three years.
I must try and find the site for rig counts, that should tell everything.

Re the car, well, the mine to battery to wheels efficiency is better
than the well to refinery to ic engine to wheels.
Posted by Bazz, Monday, 21 January 2013 12:39:29 PM
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Peter Lang

Years ago I participated in a feasibility study that came to the conclusion that installing wind power in an area of 10 000 square km in Bass strait would produce electricity enough for the whole of Australia and still leave a substantial amount to be exported to Asian countries. We did another study after Fukushima that came to the conclusion that wave power using a sophisticated new technology could replace all nuclear reactors in Japan.

So there is certainly no need to even think about nuclear power, and if the next meltdown will happen in a densely populated area it will be the end of nuclear anyway.

Nuclear power is the most expensive of all, and a study from an Austrian University had the result that considering all costs of nuclear power one kilowatt hour would have a price of more than 20 dollars. Yes, dollars not cents. You can read about the study here:

http://www.anschober.at/politik/presse/1372/die-erste-oesterreichische-studie-ueber-die-milliardensubventionen-der-atomenergie-bringt-neue-hebel-fuer-die-oesterreichische-antiatom-politik

No one would be ready to pay that price, and that is why people happily USE nuclear electricity today, and leave the paying to future generations. Nuclear waste has to be locked away and secured for centuries, and your grand-grand-grand … children won’t be to happy to pay for the electricity you used today, hundreds of year before they were born. Their responsibility to take care and pay for your waste is not negotiable. That means using the advantages today is stealing from our children, grandchildren and so on for centuries. They will for sure wish that we ended in hell.
continued ...
Posted by Günter, Wednesday, 23 January 2013 1:31:51 PM
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continued ...

Germany has that problem already. 40 years ago people enjoyed cheap electricity from nuclear power plants and just threw the waste into an abandoned salt mine. About what politicians lied at that time like they still do today when they open their mouth.

Now most of those people who used the electricity are already dead, and it is left to the German tax payer to try to clean up the mess. Radioactiv water is leaking from the mine now, the house values in that area are at zero now, and no one knows, what to do. But all have to pay.

Read more in English here:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com.au/news/2010/07/photogalleries/100708-radioactive-nuclear-waste-science-salt-mine-dump-pictures-asse-ii-germany/

That was an article from 2010. In the meantime documents have surfaced that prove that the politicians decades ago have lied even more and that they have even put highly radioactive waste into the mine.

Not only is nuclear the most expensive, it is also contempt for mankind.
Posted by Günter, Wednesday, 23 January 2013 1:32:24 PM
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