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The Forum > Article Comments > Einstein's insanity test > Comments

Einstein's insanity test : Comments

By Junaid Cheema, published 10/10/2012

Perhaps we need to think outside the square on Islamic terrorism.

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David,

You have a fine set of blinkers. Atheism is vastly in the minority - miniscule in the broader context - and that is not about to change any time soon. Ever heard of Sisyphus? One can try to work with the majority, or just keep pushing a barren cart. Which is more likely to achieve success?

>"I am totally opposed to the infantile and irresponsible thoughtless parts of religion, all religions."<

Cherry-picking blinkers. There are no good bits of course, not in your view.

>"How about look at the problems caused by religion in a fine democracy like Australia"<

So, if we eliminate RE/RI in schools, approve euthanasia, marriage equality and full access to contraception and abortion on demand, will that suffice? Or must Oz 'push' these same ideals on the rest of the world to satisfy your ideology? (Not an 'ideology'? Think again.)

On the broader issue, pummeling Peaceful with loaded questions is scarcely profitable. What say Islam were to adopt a more tolerant stance in general - no more talk of killing or harsh penalties for apostasy, blasphemy, adultery, homosexuality or stealing, (or even criticism or critical observation on religious texts or religious postulations), tolerance of all religions, and full equal rights for women (with no genital interference, no child marriage, etc) - could that not be an Islam we could all live with in reasonable harmony? Or would you, like so many others, insist on holding grudges for past ills?

Can you be big enough to accept an 'inclusive' world? (In any moderate view, 'righteous' Atheists will be welcomed into 'Heaven', so no loss there.)

9/11, etc: Religious Fundamentalism (brainwashing), and/or politically motivated? Both, in my estimation, but how deep must we delve into the world of deception to seek cause for endless retribution? Better to focus on solutions.

PS. When a question is based on a patently false premise it deserves repudiation as 'physhing' in my view. (Like 'fishing', only with a self-serving and demonstrably mischievous intent.)
Posted by Saltpetre, Friday, 19 October 2012 12:11:54 PM
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Saltpetre,

I have not said atheism is in the majority only that the numbers are appreciable. And I have never postulated that religion will die out on a planetary-scale but given enough time and education it probably will. In Australia within two generations it will be a spent force and you can quote me on that.

Religion, if chosen and not the result of well-honed indoctrination practices can be a comfort to some people. If that kind of religion doesn't influence politics in an unrepresented fashion, then it would have no grief from me.

Is it ideology that considers it is inappropriate that 30 billion dollars of non-taxed money goes annually to religion because of the belief in a magical-creature or that a particular religion has its brand of chaplains in state-schools? Is it ideology that the desire of the religious and the non-religious alike wish to have legal voluntary euthanasia but it is denied? I'm not going to supply the full list as it exists already. Don’t mix-up the concept of ideology with the actuality of rational thought.

I am asking PeaceFul what he believes. It is no longer acceptable that religions hide behind a special privileged idea that it should not be questioned. You seem to have missed that.

A bit on the silly side that you think I hold grudges about religious stupidity. I am just trying to stop its continuance. This straw grasping of yours is noticeable - I assume you know.

Atheists are all for inclusiveness but we are opposed to the special privileges afforded religion. If religions come to their senses and desist in demanding them, you will find we can be the best of friends.

Atheism is seeking solutions but religion doesn't want them. Take off the mind-numbing-blinkers and have a look at reality.

I'm not going to chase your physhing blunder but it is ridiculous to say it is mischievous to ask a person if their morality would change without a god. It is one of the main accusations against atheists and atheism. Do you know how to use Google search?

David
Posted by Atheist Foundation of Australia Inc, Friday, 19 October 2012 1:02:48 PM
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@David

Didn't really want to respond to you as you're clearly not searching to know about what islam represents but will:
Wikipedia:
According to one estimate, atheists make up about 2.3% of the world's population, while a further 11.9% are nonreligious.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

That's a very small number. It is naturally abhorrent to be a disbeliever in God.
Just like we naturally feel killing innocent people is wrong, it's instilled within us to believe in God.
All throughout history we see that some god was worshipped. Why, since it's obvious there's a creator and The Creator has continuously sent messengers, which you ignore and don't account for.

@mac - the point is they believe in a god. Since it's natural for us to seek Him. He's created us like this. Whether they seek a different god, that's different story.
Diversity is a proof. If you're adament that we came about through some random selection process, then replicate it without using that thing. Eg create it from raw materials.
Just gather all the humans to create a fly. Remember it must have a brain of its own and must be replicated as is.
If I saw even something as simple as a table, i don't need to see the person or thing that created it to realise there is some intelligence behind it nor do i say it evolved from a chair or a tree.
What about the human being. Science making some wild claims without replicating is not science. As i said earlier put a sperm and an egg in a beaker. You believe it will evolve into a human if we waited zillion years?
If not why not?
Posted by PeacefulPeace, Saturday, 20 October 2012 2:44:14 PM
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@David
Does it matter whether it's from a journal. Truth is Truth.
Anthropic principal is well known, didn't think i needed to give you the journal regarding it.

Also your way of speaking is pretty rude:
I must congratulate you on persisting with PeacefulPeace.

And asking Tony questions to ask to me, when it's a forum as if you're ignoring me.

"Or why he doesn’t grasp that elements made in stars coalesce into other stars, planets and other bodies and form all kinds of combinations."

Just by themselves? As i said you need to replicate. If it's done without any intervention then surely someone as intelligent as you think you are can replicate such an event.

Pharoah being a title, i never said it wasn't.

Why do bad things happen?
Earth is a perfect testing ground for what God has made it for:
[He] who created death and life to test you [as to] which of you is best in deed - and He is the Exalted in Might, the Forgiving - Qur'an 67.2
If bad things didn't occur and everything was all good then everyone will get 100% and there wouldn't be any differentiation between those that did good and those that did bad,
those that had patience and those that lost the plot etc. A lot can go wrong as can be observed (even People not believing in their creator :P) but everyone will get justice in the end on The Day of Judgement.
If they were wronged, they will be compensated. Everyone will be made accountable for their actions and the result will be at the end of death.
Everyone dies, that is the way of God.

As for your rulings regarding death, seems the only thing that you're concerned about, I'm not sure of the rulings as i'm not a scholar.
As for your statistic I think this is for apostasy. Again not sure why you as a non-muslim would worry about that so much, to be asked so many different times.
Not sure there's too much point for me to post more. We'll see.
Posted by PeacefulPeace, Saturday, 20 October 2012 3:38:42 PM
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With so much concern of Death it's appropriate to remind you of the following:
RESULTS: Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation.
Suicide rates are lower in religious countries than in secular ones (1, 2).

In 2004, the American Journal of Psychiatry reported the following:
Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation. Unaffiliated subjects were younger, less often married, less often had children, and had less contact with family members. Furthermore, subjects with no religious affiliation perceived fewer reasons for living, particularly fewer moral objections to suicide. In terms of clinical characteristics, religiously unaffiliated subjects had more lifetime impulsivity, aggression, and past substance use disorder. No differences in the level of subjective and objective depression, hopelessness, or stressful life events were found
http://www.adherents.com/misc/religion_suicide.html
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx?articleid=177228

Just be careful around bridges.
Posted by PeacefulPeace, Saturday, 20 October 2012 3:52:32 PM
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PeacefulPeace,

In typical religious-style, you have not comprehended or did not want to comprehend anything I have written. It is all very simple stuff.

You haven’t answered any questions or made any pertinent comments regarding religion in general and Islam in particular. It is pointless conversing with you.

I have a greater understanding of Islam than most Muslim people and the biggest observation is that Islam, with its fear and reward factors believed on the cultural level does not allow for any critical examination. That is a recipe most ideologies aspire to because it entraps people in a mindset very difficult to escape from. Not only difficult, but dangerous to even think about.

You can’t even appreciate that non-belief in a god or gods is atheism no matter what a person with that description thinks.

You make out you have no concept that figures obtained in highly religious countries are bound to be hugely underestimated.

You fail to see that numbers of adherents means nothing about the truth of those beliefs.

You are arrogant in thinking you have the right god the same as everyone else who has the right god.

There is no innate ‘knowing’ that a god exists or that Santa or the Easter bunny does. That is produced by indoctrination. There is only an innate questioning ability. Children raised with a broad education with an overall picture of religions and who haven’t been browbeaten into one system of belief tend to end up being atheists. That is why only 7% of scientist at the National Academy of Science believe in a god. Nearly all of them accept the theory of evolution apart from a very small minority of fundamentalists.

Your understanding of science and the scientific method as opposed to the anecdotal nonsense you poor forth is negligible.

You are frightened and have deluded ideas about an afterlife and if I were you I would be very upset by those who manipulated your mind to think that way.

Broaden you knowledge base and good luck with life.

David

PS Religious fear of suicide does not prove ‘god’
Posted by Atheist Foundation of Australia Inc, Saturday, 20 October 2012 4:34:34 PM
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