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The Forum > Article Comments > Organic food – it's a religion > Comments

Organic food – it's a religion : Comments

By David Leyonhjelm, published 6/7/2012

Support for organic food is based on a belief system in which facts are not particularly relevant but allows the self-satisfaction of looking down on those who do not share your beliefs.

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>>In the worst-case scenario, your carrot will still comply with the law when 87.24 mg/kg (8.724%) of toxics remain.<<

You're out by a couple of decimal places there Bob. 87.24 mg/kg is 0.008724%. How are we supposed to take your advice on scientific and technical issues seriously when you can't even master simple arithmetic?

Cheers,

Tony
Posted by Tony Lavis, Monday, 9 July 2012 7:32:52 PM
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I think many of you illustrate Leyonhjelm's point quite well.

From those discussing their hobby gardens, thinking that all you need to do is scale up to feed the world, to other discussing 'productive and meaningful toil'. I'm glad that you found meaning in your garden, but somehow I doubt that you grow or store much grain or cereals. For many people (most)in the world, a lovely plot of land is just not an option. And there are major problems with scalability.

Then of course there are those that take the 'power of prayer' approach , i.e. 'it worked for me!, Hallelujah!'.

A couple though list some facts that sound decidedly fishy. Two thirds of world production lost because of ancient distribution systems? Really? Wow.

And Bob Phelps lists some MRLS for some fictitious chemicals that could theoretically add up to 8% of the food weight? of carrots? Really? 87mg/kg is actually 0.008% (not 8%), which is still waaaay higher than any MRL I have ever seen. That must be some non-toxic chemical. Which one is it by the way Bob?

I don't mind people choosing organic for themselves, but please don't pretend that it can 'feed the world'. Try storing grain organically for longer than 3 months and you can see how much that will cost. It won't be insect-free, that's for sure.
Posted by Bugsy, Monday, 9 July 2012 8:09:13 PM
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Dear Bugsy,

<<I think many of you illustrate Leyonhjelm's point quite well.>>

Leyonhjelm never limited his claim to mass production or to feeding the world. In fact, his opening statement is: "No intelligent person would choose organic food over conventional food on objective grounds."

In other words, this article is not really about the goodness or otherwise of organic food, but merely a pretext for yet another attack on religious people, labeling them as "unintelligent".

This is especially unbecoming of a public officer of a political party that is supposed to promote freedom for all, including religious freedoms.

<<Try storing grain organically for longer than 3 months and you can see how much that will cost. It won't be insect-free, that's for sure.>>

Organic rice can easily be kept insect-free for 10-15 years when sealed with nitrogen in metal containers.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Monday, 9 July 2012 10:13:03 PM
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The Maximum Residue Limits (MRLs) of synthetic chemicals allowed in conventional food production are at: http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Series/F2008B00619 The 17 synthetic chemicals approved by the APVMA and FSANZ for spraying on a non-organic carrot, with MRLs totalling 87.24 mg/kg, are: heptachlor, 0.2 mg/kg; maleic hydrazide, 40 mg/kg; parathion-methyl, 0.5 mg/kg; 2-phenylphenol, 20 mg/kg; quizalofop-ethyl, 0.02 mg/kg; quizalofop-p-tefuryl, 0.02 mg/kg; tebuconazole, 0.5 mg/kg; trifluralin, 0.5 mg/kg; azoxystrobin, 0.2 mg/kg; 2-chloro-N- (4_-chloro-5-hydroxybiphenyl-2-yl) nicotinamide, expressed as boscalid equivalents, 1 mg/kg; chlorfenvinphos, 0.4 mg/kg; 4-hydroxy-2,5,6-trichloroisophthalonitrile metabolite, expressed as chlorothalonil, 7 mg/kg; dicloran, 15 mg/kg; difenoconazole, 0.2 mg/kg; total dithiocarbamates expressed as carbon disulphide, 1 mg/kg; fentin hydroxide 0.2 mg/kg; iprodione, 0.5 mg/kg.
Posted by Bob Phelps, Tuesday, 10 July 2012 1:23:40 PM
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I think you are being a bit obtuse Bob.
Actually, only 6 of those chemicals you listed are approved for use on carrots in Australia.
Just because they have an MRL, does not mean they are registered or approved for use.

The data is here:
http://services.apvma.gov.au/PubcrisWebClient/welcome.do
Search for carrot in the crop field

Of those 6, 2 are herbicides and 4 are fungicides, and the herbicides are are set at the limit of detection (i.e if you can detect it, it doesn't pass). And since the fungicides are redundant it's not very likely that you are going to get a big cocktail of them coating your carrot is it?

In the original 17, 2 were insecticides, 4 were herbicides and 10 were fungicides. These limits apply to all food imported, as well as domestic.

Since many of these residues can be environmental, perhaps you could point us in the direction of where the organic food chemical residue limits are listed? Just so we can compare.
Posted by Bugsy, Tuesday, 10 July 2012 4:05:58 PM
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Just to chime in, Bugsy make an excellent point. We're a bit like Geoff (who jumped from a ludicrous defence of Organic foods to saying he grew and ate it for lifestyle reasons) We have 45 acres (1 for us and 44 for the local flora/fauna) in Northern NSW http://menuchanechona.blogspot.com/ We're currently on sabbatical doing volunteer work in Cambodia and miss our place terribly. We grow lots of our own veggies, fruits and even kill our own chickens etc We do NOT grow our own grains, sugar etc we also collect our own water and energy and we rely on mulch from non organic sources eg sugar cane . Sure our food tastes better but as others pointed out, it's because its picked and used straight away.

This system is NOT scalable to feed the World and typically you would see about a 30% reduction if you turned to Organic growing causing food prices to sky rocket ! Current no till farming, with hybrid or GM crops where a single spray of round up is used does a marvellous job and is the only real future.

On a another note I will never understand an urban Gardner who plants say a pine tree over a Peach/Apple/Mullbery etc or who plant daises over broccoli/tomatoes etc. That people similarly don't keep 4 chooks in the back yard but will have a Cat or Dog ?

The food being thrown out is an issue but what would you have say Brumbies do, under-bake and annoy their customers ? Sure they have system in place that predict they will need 200 loves of bread, so they bake 220 (in case it's a little busier) and only sell 190, how should they change their system ? Of course I have issues with those on insisting they want out of season fruit but that's another issue.

I also think there is an issue with the growing disconnect between urbanities and their food and there is an issue with agriculture being so reliant on Oil.
Posted by Valley Guy, Saturday, 14 July 2012 3:54:30 PM
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