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The Forum > Article Comments > The people smugglers > Comments

The people smugglers : Comments

By Marilyn Shepherd, published 15/5/2012

The Australian government is so determined to make a point that it jails under-aged Indonesian deck hands as 'people smugglers'.

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Look, no doubt some people involved with this whole sorry onshore asylum-seeking saga get treated a little more harshly than you would like…while others get off lightly.

The whole business is so complex that you can hardly be surprised by that.

The government is surely right in jailing people-smugglers or whatever you would like to call those who assist asylum seekers in getting here. We’ve made it perfectly clear that these people are held in contempt, at least from 1999.

Every Indonesian, no matter how poor and whether they be under-aged or not, would surely know that by assisting asylum seekers, they are placing themselves at strong odds with Australia authorities and risking heavy penalties.

I just don’t get it Marilyn. Surely a genuine refugee advocate such as yourself would be all in favour of stopping the dangerous onshore asylum seeker movement and operating our refugee intake entirely through our formal immigration programs, where we can select the most needy of refugees for resettlement and not be pressured to accommodate less needy people arriving on our shores.

Andrew Bolt got it right last week:

http://www.couriermail.com.au/ipad/refugees-blunder-costing-us-billions/story-fn6ck620-1226051762542
Posted by Ludwig, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 7:41:03 AM
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Ludwig, did you read or are you spraying out the same old ignorant crap.

It is not illegal to claim asylum and it is illegal to punish anyone for doing so and jailing 13 year old children in adult prisons with pedophiles and murderers is illegal even under our deluded laws.

Ludwig, read the article again and the remarks by the sentencing judges and the UNHCR.

WE are the only country that does this, surely even a moron like you can extrapolate that means it is illegal.

We waste $500,000 per person to jail these children.

What on earth is the point.

And do not quote that ignorant racist Andrew Bolt.
Posted by Marilyn Shepherd, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 2:36:57 PM
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<<There was no attempt here by the prisoners to hide from the authorities or disguise what they were doing>>

ROFL

I wonder why?

Could it possibly have anything to do with the knowledge that OZ is such soft touch.
That it is general knowledge that most will be issued with a get-out-of-jail card and a free flight home.
<<These children are all in adult prisons in breach of the law that says children should not be jailed but sent home>>

No wonder their villages want then back in a hurry ---they must be great little cash cows!

It never ceases to amaze that when IDs are needed to verify alibis for asylum seekers ---there are NO papers to be had.
However, when their smugglers (& joint venture partners) need IDs to secure a get-out-of-jail card---even the most remote and impoverished village can come up with birth certificates & what nots!

Wake up OZ, you're being had
Posted by SPQR, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 3:51:33 PM
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My, it did not take long to play the card Marilyn (race), you must realise what you believe is fatuous. How about dealing a few more from the bottom of the deck, such as sexist, nazi or fascist? Such comments debase your own side; Bolt is often correct and is somewhat right. The waste is the failure of the Rudd / Julia government; it was costing nothing before and now at least one rail line extension per annum. The current shambles is entirely owned by the Left.
Posted by McCackie, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 4:35:41 PM
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I love those who presume that I make up the law.

The ABC and others keep telling me I make up the law, I don't.

And they don't hide because they want to be found.

Good lord, how can people apply for refugee protection if they are hiding?

Here what Vanstone said in February 2000.

Thursday, 10 February 2000 SENATE—Legislation L&C 205

Senator McKIERNAN—I am talking particularly about the boat people. They are the
people who arrive on our shores – mainly on Ashmore Islands – and who put their hands up
and say, ‘Find me, find me!Take me in.’ They do not use these exact words, but they want to
be found. These are not people who are escaping the scrutiny of our Coast Watch people.
Senator Vanstone—Senator, I cannot resist!Perhaps you could tell Mr Beazley that so he
does not keep raving on about this silly idea that we need a Coast Guard to locate the people.
You at least realise that they want to be found; it would be helpful if your party realised that
as well.""

Oh dear, they don't hide because they want to be found.

Now the attacks on me have no bearing on the fact that we are breaking our own laws by jailing children who have committed no crime.

Why don't you people actually read
Posted by Marilyn Shepherd, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 7:01:04 PM
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And SPOR did you read anything? The only way we got their birth certificates is when
Australian lawyers went to Indonesia.
Posted by Marilyn Shepherd, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 7:04:34 PM
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<< Ludwig, did you read or are you spraying out the same old ignorant crap. >>

Marilyn, settle!

What an enormous contradiction you are - a supposed humanitarian who cares deeply about refuges, but a really nasty person, in a totally uncalled manner, on OLO, over and over and over, over the years!

THAT just completely doesn’t add up!

You know, there is a big difference between strongly presenting and debating your convictions and being strongly offensive to those with whom you disagree.

Your innate nastiness works strongly against you!

And of course, there is not a hint of response in your post to the main point I was making – that a real humanitarian would want to STOP onshore asylum seeking and concentrate their efforts on the most needy of refugees, to be accommodated through our formal immigration program.

You apparently have no concept of a holistic approach to this issue and can only see little bits of it in isolation to the bigger picture.
Posted by Ludwig, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 8:22:30 PM
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Until the birth certificates can be produced, wrist X rays are the best way of determining age. If one just accepts their word, then everyone will be below 18. If you want a get out of jail card, then you need to bring your birth certificate.

If you commit the crime, you do the time.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 9:38:03 PM
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We waste $500,000 per person to jail these children.
Marylin,
Who's getting the money ? Let's hear about that & make a move to cut this nonsense.
If Australia gave every indonesian boat owner double the money he is offered by asylum seekers it would certainly cost a lot less & hardly anyone would try & get here via indonesian fishing boat. Plus a lot more of that money could be used on essential services here.
Remember, the indonesian fishermen are very poor & I give you a 100% guarantee that you too would do something illegal if you were that poor.
The people at fault here are power crazed morons & australian officials & lawyers.
Posted by individual, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 8:26:44 AM
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@Marilyn,

<<Oh dear, they don't hide because they want to be found.>>

Yes Marilyn, they want to found.
And they want to be found because they know –all of Asia knows – Oz is a soft touch.
If you are an ILLEGAL –as long as you can tell a good story – you will be rubber stamped “found to be genuine” then ushered along the red carpet to a lifetime of social welfare.
And if you are a PEOPLE SMUGGLER –as long as you shave off your beard and speak in a squeaky prepubescent voice – they will fly you home in time to have Sunday dinner with mamma (they ‘d be lining-up in Indonesia , to volunteer to do a smugglers run just to get the ride on a jumbo!)

<< SPOR did you read anything?>>

Marilyn, do you read anything other than your sides propaganda?
I doubt it. If you did you would know that "asylum" seeking is a massive scam.
Posted by SPQR, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 9:09:55 AM
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I look atthe faces of asylum seekers every week as they say to me "Why would I lose my family, my parents, my land, my home and my country if I thought I could stay and survive. The Taliban will not kill me fast, it will be slow and painful. First the ears then hands, feet then genitals. How could getting on a leaky boat and hoping for safety be more risk than that?" I wish I could talk that mining millionare to ferry Bowen,Morrision, Bolt and possibly most DIAC people to Quetta and Kabul without any protection. I thought Ali Al's book was honest very real> Its shameful for us to acknowledge what our governments do and still do day after day to people who are truly
trying only to escape torture and death. Before you give the old rhetorical denials go to the detention centres and speak to the ones who really know fear
Posted by jeva, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 4:36:04 PM
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This is an article Australia jailing Indonesian children in adult prisons in breach of Australian law and it is only done to pander to the ignorant.

How many here would not notice that someone is a 13 year old disabled child as distinct from an adult?

A child so mentally disabled he was locked in Silverwater for nearly 2 years without a single guard or anyone noticing.

Are you lazy or just plain stupid.

Now go back and read the article again.

And when people want to be found it is because they want to claim refugee status, the crew do not claim and just want to go home.

In the book the People Smuggler it is shown clearly that there are no smuggling rings,something I have always said, because no-one can ever know when people will run and seek protection.

Now I suggest those spraying off their ignorance tell me how comfortable they are with young kids in adult prisons in breach of the law.
Posted by Marilyn Shepherd, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 4:40:40 PM
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how comfortable they are with young kids in adult prisons in breach of the law.
Marylin,
I can only speak for myself here & I'm as comfortable with this as I am with the children of the australian battlers who have even less of a future than those who come here.
The authorities are blatantly placing them ahead of our own poor including our pensioners.
I agree & support helping the boat children but I draw the line at preferential treatment.
Posted by individual, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 5:36:01 PM
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Well the Indonesian fishing crew didn't come here for anything, why do ignorant people have to talk such rot.

And seeking asylum is not a scam, it is a binding legal entitlement that has existed all over the world since time immemorial.

People in trouble are allowed to seek protection and shelter.
Posted by Marilyn Shepherd, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 5:55:46 PM
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And seeking asylum is not a scam, it is a binding legal entitlement that has existed all over the world since time immemorial.
Marylin,
For your info, it is both.
Posted by individual, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 6:33:17 PM
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Well the Indonesian fishing crew didn't come here for anything,
Marilyn,
They came here to make some money, money they can't get back home. I have met & spoken with some nalayan (fishermen) & they told me that they don't even own the boats. One has been here 4 times & will come again, purely out of economic necessity. So, to answer your question, they did come here for something, for survival. Do you know how much more drastic the measures are taken by the poor javanese to survive ? Poor because foreign interests are exploiting them to no end.
They're not the smugglers, they only drive the boats. Also, australian Customs officers know what to look for & they do & they can tell the genuine from the non-genuine.
Posted by individual, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 6:44:40 PM
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If the fishermen were smuggling drugs they would get 15 years. People trafficking gets 5 years. Both are cases of smuggling which is illegal in Australia.

Both are crimes that need to be punished. QED

I can't see where the problem is?
Posted by Shadow Minister, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 10:27:45 PM
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@Marilyn,

<<In the book the People Smuggler it is shown clearly that there are no smuggling rings>>
Here's news for you Marilyn. Not only are there people smuggling rings, but some of the most successful operators are former "asylum seekers" to OZ.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/exasylum-seekers-turned-to-people-smuggling-court-told-20120328-1vyoe.htm

<<I have always said, because no-one can ever know when people will run and seek protection>>
Maybe so.But given that most are not running from, but rather running to, warmer economic climes.It seems that people smuggling would be one of the few industries where you would be assured of a constant stream flow of new customers. Come to think of it, while the rest of the business world would have faced a slackening off of demand during the worst of the GFC, the people smugglers would have had a boost, with all of South Asia's unemployed rebadging themselves as "asylum seekers" to OZ!
Posted by SPQR, Thursday, 17 May 2012 6:03:48 AM
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As the Perth Chief Justice stated in March: it is risible to call it people smuggling".
And I find it risible to see my tax dollar wasted on the chief justice & the lawyers. I also find it risible that our own get less attention.
We must help people in need nothing is more obvious but for crying out loud half a million for each ?
Who are the real illegals here ? Australian authorities that's who.
Posted by individual, Thursday, 17 May 2012 5:31:34 PM
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Ali Jasmin is finally going home thanks mostly to Hamish McDonald who had the guts to look behind the lies and advocate for the children.
Posted by Marilyn Shepherd, Thursday, 17 May 2012 6:56:11 PM
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To help exploit children for an ulterior motive is as bad as not helping them. Don't know what I'm on about ? Go to Europe & see for yourself.
By helping those children you're destroying our children's' future. Short-term feel good causes long-term strife. Do-gooders just can't see that. You must ask yourself whose children's future you're more concerned about.
Ask yourself if your compassion is is not discriminatory towards your own in a few years time.. It gets to me too seeing those poor little wretches being used as bargaining tools.
We know it's bad, no need to convince us, tell the fanatics over there. Wouldn't it make more sense to stop the nonsense over there rather than bring it here ?
Posted by individual, Thursday, 17 May 2012 9:39:17 PM
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Ali Jasmin is finally going home but I wonder what Gillard and co. would have thought if the child had been murdered in Albany prison based on dodgy psuedo science that has been disused all over the world.
Posted by Marilyn Shepherd, Friday, 18 May 2012 6:44:58 PM
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What the fashionable compassion brigade has to realise that once the gates are open we won't be able to shut them again.
Presently, we get refugees from Somalia, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan & several other places. Next will be other african countries, Middle east, or Mexico or whatever country has Dictators lining up. We simply can not keep taking in people in that manner. doesn't the australian way of life mean anything to the intake advocates ? Or perhaps they have no contact with the people who come here so it's easy for them to play compassionate missionary. Don't think the australian lifestyle will get better by so much intake.
Posted by individual, Friday, 18 May 2012 6:45:02 PM
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Individual we get refugee applicants from Peru, all over Europe and the middle east, we get them from every corner of the globe already.

the thing is though that those who come by sea are genuine in the main while those who fly are in the main frauds.

So we punish the genuine and ignore the frauds.

What a stupid country.
Posted by Marilyn Shepherd, Friday, 18 May 2012 6:47:23 PM
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What a stupid country.
marylin,
I came here over 40 years ago by choice. I was lucky that I had a choice & I never forget to appreciate that I was given a choice.
I very much feel for genuine refugees taking the risk of breaking up their families & risking their own life.
I also feel very strong about Australia being hijacked for reasons other than a refuge. As I said earlier rather than letting the world get overrun by refugees or those pretending to be we have to stop the production of refugees. That in turn also poses a problem because do-gooders object to send forces into places like Iraq & Afghanistan. I rather stop stupidity/evil before it gets mobile.
We have to be cruel to be kind. Unfortunately for good to win evil must lose. Too many do-gooders afford evil the benefit of doubt but none to their own.
Posted by individual, Friday, 18 May 2012 7:18:10 PM
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Marylin,
when do you think enough is enough ?
Posted by individual, Friday, 18 May 2012 7:22:21 PM
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Sheesh Marylin. I must remember to use underage crew for my next
shipment of asylum seekers to Australia. No doubt you will send
them back immediately, so that they are ready for the following
trip. That means money for jam for me and for them. Yippee!
Posted by Yabby, Friday, 18 May 2012 7:30:13 PM
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It is indeed sad that the genuine refugees are being punished by being pushed to the back of the queue, whilst the cashed up economic refugees can afford $15 000 a piece (more than most earn in a lifetime).

That 30% are found not to be genuine refugees by the tribunal, but 99% do after years of appeals is more an indication of our limp wristed legal system than that most of the boat people are economic migrants.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Friday, 18 May 2012 8:12:40 PM
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