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The Forum > Article Comments > Taking legal action against illegal logging > Comments

Taking legal action against illegal logging : Comments

By Julie Bishop, published 5/4/2012

Any laws to curb illegal logging in Australia need to honour Australia's international commitments as well.

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You've got to be joking. The Libs crying about illegal logging.... spare me.
Posted by Cheryl, Thursday, 5 April 2012 7:51:37 AM
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This article seems to be asserting that sitting on our hands is the way to go.

Here's more information on the incompatibility between WTO 'rules' and finding solutions to illegal logging.

http://www.forestmonitor.org/uploads/2e90368e95c9fb4f82d3d562fea6ed8d/wto_brf_1.pdf

"The discourse on illegally sourced timber and timber products is evolving rapidly at the international level. International trade rules remain a stumbling block for activists and policy makers alike. Governments frequently refer to the WTO as justification for inaction, while NGO's push for actions that are seen by policy makers as unrealistic given existing trade regimes."
Posted by Poirot, Thursday, 5 April 2012 8:58:52 AM
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Gee sorry Libs...taking a stand against illegal activities is *so* unfair! How dare illegal industries be subject to the Law...there's profits at stake here. (very few jobs I suspect.)
Posted by Ozandy, Thursday, 5 April 2012 9:56:14 AM
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Ozandy,

It seems that the point that Julie and the Libs are making is that WTO rules and obligations should take precedence over any realistic attempts to counter illegal logging.
Posted by Poirot, Thursday, 5 April 2012 10:11:21 AM
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Julie: this is far too important issue for the business as usual politicking; of the ever pontificating and obstructionist opposition! You allegedly believe in taking action against illegal logging? That's why you voted the bill down or acted to further delay its implementation? That'll work?
I guess there are some pretty wealthy timber merchants: and, guess what? It is the wealthy and or over privileged, who seem to get the coalition's real support?
Similarly, you apparently believe in offshore processing of irregular arrivals; and probably explains, why a party seemingly only interested in the treasury benches, would act to vote down the only offer on the table; that would've achieved your so-called stated goals?
For all practical purposes and the megaphone diplomacy; that seems so in vogue in today's coalition, you may as well have said to each and every people smuggler in every leaky boat; filled to the gunwales with aliens, opps sorry, human beings, come on down! Well done!
You should be proud of a result patently engineered by your side of politics and no other! Sorry Julie; but a spade remains a spade.
Blame shift as much as you like; that seems to be your particular forte?
[Well, you are a Lawyer after all Julie; and skilled in describing the patently guilty, as innocent and pure as the driven snow?]
Q: If you were to drive past a small country town and noted as you exited the town limits; that half a dozen Lawyers were buried up to their necks in sand? What would it signify?
A: A local shortage of sand! Ha ha.
Abe Lincoln, a genuinely progressive Conservative, once said, "you can fool all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, some of the people some of the time; but, you can't fool all of the people all of the time!"
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Thursday, 5 April 2012 3:13:52 PM
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Talk about inundated hypocrisy, it's just the same amendment searching yearn for attracting people's attention, no political reform will ever destabalise international logging, I agree that the greens are a threat to political reasoning, only because they beat about the bush for stupidity. But who in reason is going to stop international logging? It's like trying to stop mining, with such indecent acts being perpetrated by nations with power, how can the world stop doing when those we have no power over continue to shaddow your commitments? It's destined for failure due to rushed judgement, and over seeking public approval. It will not work on the basis of failed votes and mishandling of random authoritarian consent. People know and you should too that there are no easy escape routes to this agenda, proof is continually being sought after.
Posted by Featherlite, Friday, 6 April 2012 6:36:28 PM
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We need a proper Constitution to give power back to the people.This top down Socialist Govt is taking away too many of our freedoms with over regulation.People can look after the environment under a true democracy without all this crazy Govt regulation that takes away the people's rights while letting large Corps do as they please.

So much farm land is being shut down under the lie of AGW that we may soon not be able to feed ourselves.Fracking is destroying the water table and and good productive soils and the Communist Green Movement is virtually silent.
Posted by Arjay, Saturday, 7 April 2012 7:47:48 AM
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As the Coalition supports in-principle the prohibition of illegally logged timber, I expect the legislation will eventually be passed, which would probably be a good result, as it would put pressure on the country of origin to better control their logging. Presumably the illegal logging is illegal because the logging contractors are not paying royalty to the government and/or are harvesting trees in prohibited areas and/or not regenerating the logged areas.

However I can see that the task of preventing such logging is primarily that of the country of origin. Australia has no jurisdiction over what happens in the forests of another country. We could however offer assistance by way of forestry experts who may be able to advise their overseas counterparts in better ways to control timber harvesting. Of course if a country, accused of illegal logging, does not admit that it is happening, they would not accept that they need assistance!

Determination of what logs or timber are in fact 'illegal' is likely to be one of the most difficult issues in implementing the proposed legislation, as such material does not arrive on a ship stamped 'illegal'!

A related issue is that there is a strong demand in Australia for imported timber, particularly from tropical forests. This is partly due to large areas of Australia's productive native forests (over the last 30-40 years) being put into conservation reserves in which tree harvesting is illegal. One unfortunate result of this is that we have to import even larger quantities of raw timber and timber products and this demand is often met by countries where control of logging and regeneration is well below Australia's own forestry standards.
Posted by MESSMATE, Saturday, 7 April 2012 10:12:36 PM
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Messmate has just mentioned just a few of the complexities of tackling this issue.

The current governments approach to this and so many other issues is the 'thought bubble' approach! Cases in point include the 'live export ban', the 'Malasian' solution to people smuggling, 'send em to East Timor approach. Etc etc.

where is the productivity commission recommendations for the NBN thought bubble?

When did it heed the recommendations of its own departments during the 'Australia Network' fiasco?

Australia increasingly becomes an investment opportunity of 'last resort' due to the sovereign risk inherent in dealing with this government!

The only recent decision of merit that I have seen with regard to matters affecting foreign affairs was the occasion when they heeded the advice of its own department (ASIO) in limiting Chinese investment in the NBN.

Of course, as stated by Messmate, the coalition is concerned with illegal logging, but it seems to insist that it be an effective, well thought out, 'clever' approach to the problem, not a greens inspired knee jerk that damages our relationships with our long suffering neighbors.
Posted by Prompete, Tuesday, 10 April 2012 6:28:23 AM
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Again regarding Messmate's comment regarding the strong demand for imported timber. The law of unintended consequences completely eludes the current governments thought processes.
Posted by Prompete, Tuesday, 10 April 2012 6:34:41 AM
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Arjay you are right about the need for a new constitution, I too am concerned about giving the power back to the people and suggest that the Swiss constitution is a good starting point, look it up on google. But hang on, "power back to the people" isn’t that a bit too socialist. And Arjay please don’t praise the Greens and Labour with accusations of being Communist or Socialist, they follow the same free market mantra that Hawke, Keating and Howard progressively established. The simple fact is that when we caste our vote, we effectively give power to a democratic dictatorship. And yes, Julie Bishop is doing her best at "spinning" the top, pity for her that we can all see through it.
Posted by DEN71, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 7:47:02 PM
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