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The Forum > Article Comments > Asian Century or Asian Millennium? > Comments

Asian Century or Asian Millennium? : Comments

By Tania Cleary, published 30/3/2012

Does the Asian tortoise trump the European hare?

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If someone actually manages to read this longwinded article could you please summarise it in a paragraph. The title is interesting but she lost me after that. Life is too short.
Posted by mralstoner, Friday, 30 March 2012 1:08:17 PM
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The point of the article is to make us rethink the asian century... and she has succeeded in doing that...
Posted by colbernrae, Friday, 30 March 2012 2:25:37 PM
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Well I like it! History is not takeaway unless yesterday is as deep as you want to go. This historian just lays out a smorgasbord of artifacts from asia that i and most of us know little or nothing about but lead out to so many other interesting things. How densely packed is history and how intriguing are these artifacts! I particularly like the story of Flinders crossing paths with the trepang hunter, Pobasso, and virtually meeting the descendants of the Indonesian legend still sailing to unknown waters.
Great stuff. We should all consider longer timeframes and then many of the things that alarm us, for example, about the Chinese Han or the Koreans, assume a different and more rewarding perspective.

Thanks. More from this author!
Posted by readr, Friday, 30 March 2012 3:04:36 PM
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I agree with readr, this article is well written and is extremely interesting....

It is History , which obviously put one of our readers off, but it is not a " re-writing" of History, which is so common nowadays.

The only area missing, and I have to admit I don't know what documentation exist , is Japan. Perry’s Agreement with the Japanese perhaps ?.After that the Japanese matched the Rest of the world in Industrial manufacture and Innovation very quickly, defeating Russia ,militarily, within almost 50 years..

More from this Author , Please !
Posted by Aspley, Friday, 30 March 2012 4:16:57 PM
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Hindu mathematicians also invented our modern decimal numbering system. They had the marvellous idea of using a zero as a placeholder. So the number 408.05 means:

Four hundreds

ZERO tens

Eight units

ZERO tenths

Five hundredths

Now try doing that with Roman numerals!

I think you can say that the decimal system is what made the modern world possible.

I don’t know if you would count present day Iraq as part of Asia but that's where modern astronomy was invented three thousand years ago. Using naked eye astronomy the Babylonians discovered that 235 lunar months equalled 19 tropical years. They invented a calendar in which there were 7 leap months in every 19 year cycle. That calendar lives on as the Hebrew calendar.

Asia is home to the two oldest surviving civilisations, the Chinese and the Persian. We can argue which is the older.

There has always been some debate as to whether the Europeans or the Ottomans were ahead in science and technology prior to the "middle-ages." In fact the Chinese were probably ahead of both.

On the other hand, not to overstate the obvious, China and much of Asia stagnated scientifically and technologically for centuries. So, no I don't think we can talk about an Asian millennium. I think in fact we are coming to the end of a European millennium.

But it's an interesting and thought-provoking piece.
Posted by stevenlmeyer, Friday, 30 March 2012 6:29:59 PM
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A few more snippets.

Hindu mathematicians had discovered "Pythagoras'" theorem before Pythagoras. It is possible that Pythagoras had heard of the Hindu discovery before coming up with his own proof.

The Babylonians almost invented a numerical system using zero as a placeholder using a base of 60 rather than 10. Some clay tablets in the British museum indicate they were thinking along those lines.

The Hindus had also worked out the value of pi to an amazing degree of accuracy – probably to around 6 decimal places in modern terms.

At one time Chinese naval architecture was ahead of anything anywhere in the world.

It is hard to know just why Asia went to sleep making this past millennium the millennium of Europe.
Posted by stevenlmeyer, Friday, 30 March 2012 6:38:48 PM
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IS THIS REALLY THE ASIAN CENTURY?

Starting around the ninth century the Europeans began building something the world had never seen before. It was a continent wide network of universities and other centres of learning staffed by well paid academic researchers. For the first time in history you had a continent-wide network of people whose sole job was the production of knowledge.

The result was the coordinated use of scientific methods to solve problems in navigation, ship building and warfare on a scale never before seen.

At the same time the Europeans invented better wheels and better carts which enabled them to carry on trade even after the Roman roads decayed. In fact it is arguable the Roman roads were allowed to decay because they were no longer needed. Horse-drawn carts with steel-rimmed wheels, as opposed to carts drawn by oxen with wooden wheels, could and did travel anywhere.

The development of waterborne trade making use of Europe's many rivers also aided economic development.

There was also a revolution in agriculture with the invention of better ploughs.

But above all there was the network of centres of learning. Europeans had willy-nilly invented the knowledge economy.

The Ottomans had universities, some of them excellent, many of them pre-dating their European counterparts. But they were not part of a network. Thus Ibn Al-Nafis discovered the circulation of the blood centuries before Harvey But since he was not part of a network there was no one to carry the research further.

What we see happening in Asia now is a huge investment in science and technology. It is arguable that there is greater respect for science in Asia today than in, say, North America. Certainly there is more respect for science in most of Asia than in Australia.

So are Asians adopting and improving on the knowledge economy, Europe's greatest invention.

Is this the "Asian" century?

Or is it the continuation of the European millennium in another part of the world?

Has "Europe" migrated to Asia as it once did to North America?

Just thought I'd leave that there for comment.
Posted by stevenlmeyer, Friday, 30 March 2012 10:55:21 PM
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stevenlmeyer,
I think you're dead on with the term stagnation. The West is definitely extremely close to reaching that state. Asia is poised but I think their sheer numbers will cause them to reach only a couple of decades at the peak before succumbing to social decay as we're doing now.
Posted by individual, Saturday, 31 March 2012 9:20:06 AM
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Great article, well written and painstakingly researched! If only all our posters were as erudite.
Asian Century or Asian Millennium? Probably, and underlined by our increasing dependence on Asia and all things Asian; and indeed, Asia's symbiotic relationship, with the so-called west or developed economies? Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Saturday, 31 March 2012 11:02:42 AM
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The reason I enjoyed this article so much is that it shows how the paths of history cross and recross.
Too much of our thinking is linear and isolated. We become alienated from the greater whole. It's not either/or, it's and. We are all human. We all live here. Together.
Always trade has followed the flag, and the flag has always been carried by armies. Its speculative, of course, but do you reckon we can ever escape this dynamic?
History is not Asian or Mongolian or Phoenician or European except in the details, details recorded in the local newspapers or on cuneiform tablets. It's global. All we need do is see it.
The Memory of the World International Register. The memory of the world. How sobering is that
Posted by halduell, Saturday, 31 March 2012 2:42:35 PM
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The scope of Ms. Cleary’s article is almost breathtaking. The amount of detail, garnered to buttress her claim of Asian leadership in economic and cultural matters over many millennia, is very impressive, yet, amazingly, not verbose. I agree that it would be helpful if she made at least some rough historical comparisons between Asian and Western culture and economics, with some comment (if possible) on why and when Western culture and economics surged ahead, and whether Asian culture and economics took second place. Some minor editing might enhance the overall purpose of the work. That said, I think Dr. Cleary should also publish her work – especially on topics of this sort – in mainline journals of politics, culture, and public opinion, to gain as wide an audience as possible, and to exert more influence on politics, economic theory, education, and public attitudes.
Posted by WTReich, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 11:14:35 PM
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A wonderful article challenging our own cultural biases and perspectives, and also perhaps more confronting for those who wish to view Asia through their own Western coloured perspectives and have no desire to step out of their comfort zone. However, the evidence is clear, The Memory of the World inscriptions should not be underestimated. If we could consider The Memory of the World Inscriptions as a source and different way for interpreting Asia we might be able to reconcile our perspective regarding where we stand in Asia.
I am looking forward to reading more of Tania’s work. Thank you.
Posted by menaduechun, Friday, 6 April 2012 7:31:20 AM
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Menaduechun

And others who are a bit carried away by tales of an "Asian millennium"

What has shaped the past millennium more than anything else has been the rise of science and technology. The world we live in today is radically different to the world of a thousand years ago because of science and technology.

And for the past thousand years advances in science and technology has been largely a European story.

Not entirely.

But mostly.

It was Europe that achieved scientific "lift-off." It was in Europe that the idea of continuous technological improvement was invented. It was in Europe that the first network of universities and centres of learning devoted to scientific investigation was established. For the past thousand years nearly all important scientific discoveries have been made by Europeans or men who trace their ancestry to Europe.

Not all important scientific discoveries.

But nearly all.

In every way that matters this has been the millennium of Europe and the European cultural inventions of the continuous improvement of science and technology and networked centres of learning devoted to scientific investigation.

The rise of Asia owes more to the adoption of these European cultural inventions than to any specific Asian cultural attributes.

I know this is a bitter pill for all you so-called "progressives" to swallow.

But it happens to be historical fact.

Deal with it.
Posted by stevenlmeyer, Friday, 6 April 2012 12:44:50 PM
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Stevenlmeyer
Thank you for providing such a clear example of "cultural relativism." I have been giving a lot of thought recently to how understanding the traps of "cultural relativism" may be applied in effective problem solving.
In dealing with the great steps Western civilization has contributed to the world, may it be reminded that the author’s intention was not to belittle the West, but draw attention to the great Asian achievements our Eurocentric egos would rather disregard- "the river of forgetfulness."
I have lived over 35 years of my life in Japan and Korea, I have not been carried away by the Tales of the Asian Millennium, I have been an active witness and participant. On a daily basis I am enriched, and I also shudder when I consider what I might have missed if I let my whole life revolve around only one perspective of our globe.
Your bitter pill is not required as I feel I may be able to comprehend that stepping out of our comfort zone really is not that difficult.
Thank you.
Posted by menaduechun, Saturday, 7 April 2012 5:50:00 AM
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Unless you understand the impact the Himalays have on Asia then you will NEVER understand its future or its PAST. Living in one of the least orographic regions of the planet, Australians are simply OBLIVIOUS. They tend to come up with fairy story prognoses which make them look foolish pushovers.

The Himalays deliver FREE ENERGY to Asians and this is a double edged sword. Free energy builds order but also OVERPOPULATION. Then everything is obliterated in environmental catastrophes beyond the comprehension of Europeans. The ensuing poverty converts these environmental disturbances into social ones and spirits of Ghengis and Mao plough the masses like crops.

Asian ascension seems inevitable but two things will change this. Internal population pressures following natural disasters & the fact that brutal western nations have Nuclear weapons ensuring any global Asian expansion war is eliminated by M.A.D. considerqations.

As for asian integration. Once Asians leave the shadows of the Himalays they lose free energy. They lose the minerals, the pulse of life that makes them asian and they just become Europeans.

Australia has problems ahead too. If we do not value the mountains we have and learn to use them wisely we too will have a very uncertain future - less threatened by Asia than by internal civil disturbances of European origin based on looming Oil shortages.

Australia is overpopulated and Oil(free energy) poor. We are ruled by anti-democratic monsters who IMMIGRATE hordes of useless people to cement monopoly markets & subsequent privileges for the few.
For us to even contemplate Asia's future without understanding THAT is just ......
Posted by KAEP, Saturday, 7 April 2012 7:25:06 AM
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Well researched and written, describing in detail some of the past cultural richness of the East.I particularly liked the poetic idea of falling leaves as a way of introducing different aspects of the essay.
I have been encouraged to access the UNESCO website for further examples of cultural significance from both the East and West.
Posted by Jaromir, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 12:45:53 PM
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Jaromir,

The Second Law Of Thermodynamics and in particular the way in which it unwinds free ENERGY sources inexorably to thermal equilibrium is what controls the thrust of all cultures and thus mankind as a whole.
Cultural significance is an illusion based on less than a century of industrial growth which is based primarily on finite reserves of OIL with a weak contribution from dirty coal whose free energy is cut by up to 80% by pollution offsets which drag back much of the productive WORK done by this free energy source. Further, Coal and oil are NOT solar stored energy. Their primary input is geological: heat, pressure and violent impacts convert wet, useless vegetation into useable free energy sources. In a scientific era, the oversight involved in ignoring these facts are just astounding. It points to economic theory TAMPERING with the very basis of science in order to create wealth for the few and enslave the many. Albeit with many shiny and exquisite trinkets as a sinister diversion.

Despite delusional climate scientists trying desperately to prove CO2 is the major influence on our current cultural trajectories, GEOTECTONIC forces or trhe lack thereof (ice ages) , as they always have as evidenced in paleontological records, determine which human cultures survive -- if any.

The latest Sunda quake just reached 8.7 richter and this, plus Fukishima tells the scientist in me that the Earths crust is shrinking, which indicates a COOLING of its interior. This COOLING will be far more devastating than anything man has faced since the last significant ice age. It will occur over the same 100 year time frame that CO2 buggers are telling us the Earth will heat up.

Don't they realise that if the Earth heated up and Changes were happening that we would be getting more FREE ENERGY which would support cultural significance & not destroy it. In fact the best thing for mankind would be an asteroid impact. After all the initial death and destruction the FREE ENERGY would be just beyond our current imaginations in its scope and transformability of our technological development.
Posted by KAEP, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 10:25:09 PM
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Continued,

Erstwhile the Earth is cooling and shrinking and humankind is in for a BUMPY ride. Problem is we will have to do it without OIL. One thing we can guarantee is that we have used all the oil that can be got without putting more filthy coal resources into extracting it!

And right to the very end of global economics and tenable cultural mergers, Wayne Swan, from opposition benches will be predicting budget surplusses, because he does not know any better.

Meanwhile its obvious that the only limited but viable human populations left on Earth will be in the shadows or the Himalayas, the Rockies and the European Alps. Places like Australia will be essentially uninhabitable without significant orographic Free Energy flows after everything has been poisoned with coal residues and war.

Women in our populations will NEVER allow any other outcome because it will "infringe" their breeding rights.

Go Girls!
Posted by KAEP, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 10:41:35 PM
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