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The Forum > Article Comments > The regressive progressive: ALP future bound by its past > Comments

The regressive progressive: ALP future bound by its past : Comments

By Brenton Luxton, published 2/3/2012

Australia should truly fear what lies ahead: progressive politics is heading backwards.

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...Funny it is, the Labor Party are blinded to the obvious by a total focus on internal machinations. A very low priority is the interests and opinions of the voting supporters: Labor have become an isolated floating and disconnected wreck, in an ocean of disenfranchised ex-Labor faithful.

...A beautifully simply and poignant article
Posted by diver dan, Friday, 2 March 2012 8:33:19 AM
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Labor can no longer be deemed to be a 'progressive party' its not even a party of reform. Socialist no way. Many within the party can see the need to restructure and many talk of such desirable action. Everyone within the party from the top down talk of party reform. However, at the very next instance they go back to their same old ways, infighting, backstabbing, plotting and scheming. Just take the Gillard / Carr rubbish, same old, same old. Labor are long on rhetoric but short on action.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 2 March 2012 9:12:28 AM
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As others have pointed out, if Rudd really was so disorganised, with 'chaotic working habits', it was an act of lunacy to give him an important Cabinet post like Foreign Affairs. That alone should cost Gillard and the Labor Party government.

I see what's happening to Labor -- and the Coalition -- as the inevitable result of trying to govern in the age of knowledge. We're approaching the point where a substantial proportion of the electors are better-informed about the issues than their leaders are, and perfectly positioned to spot waffle, bulldust and policy that's motivated by personal gain or ideological fixations rather than evidence and reason. Politicians will continue to slide in the public's estimate until they adopt the same approach as medicine and law, and give us rational policy based on the best evidence. And then we can replace them all by computers anyway.
Posted by Jon J, Friday, 2 March 2012 9:25:12 AM
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For me, the travails of the modern ALP have a deeper cause than the roles of factions and various faceles men. The great ideological debate of the late 19th and the 20th centuries was between socialists and liberals. Both believed in the improvement of the human condition on earth; the former through the actions of the state in nationalising the means of production, the latter through the actions of citizens operating in an atmosphere of individual liberty. The liberals won the intellectual argument. No one talks about nationalising the means of production any more and certainly not the ALP.

The problem for Labour then is what takes the place of the socialist objective? The answer so far seems to be some combination of so-called social democracy, which seems to mean government interfering in people's lives without much rationale other than empty phrases like 'social justice' or 'equity' and the environmental movement, which, far from being committed to an improvement in the human condition, sees human beings as the problem. What I might call the 'original sin' view of the world.

In this philosophical vacuum, Labour sees power as an end in itself and it will continue to do so until it finds an intellectual rationale for its own existence.

Just for the record, I regard Tony Abbott as one of the most principled people on either side of Australian politics.
Posted by Senior Victorian, Friday, 2 March 2012 9:51:49 AM
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The Bob Car rubbish was invented by Abbott and his slime diggers.
Bob Car says he was not offered the foreign ministers job, and he does not want to be in Canberra.
The noalition say they know otherwise, because that is what they invented to defer talking about their policies.
Posted by 579, Friday, 2 March 2012 9:55:47 AM
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SV you were going great with me until you said
"Just for the record, I regard Tony Abbott as one of the most principled people on either side of Australian politics."
That's when I fell of my chair laughing. If that was true the rest of them must be shockers!
579 For 2 days Gillard said she hadn't been talking to Carr, then she said she spoke to him last Monday. What did they discuss Bob's latest fondue recipes?
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 2 March 2012 10:26:05 AM
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Indeed, where is Labor headed with progressive politics at the helm? Was not progressive politics within Labor responsible for Labor abandoning its traditional values and, consequently, its traditional supporters?
Posted by Raycom, Friday, 2 March 2012 10:35:55 AM
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579 -- have you checked a news site lately? That's quite a spectacular own goal.
Posted by Jon J, Friday, 2 March 2012 12:16:38 PM
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If it is true that Bob Carr is now Foreign Minister, Labor deserve to be dumped asap.
Posted by Chris Lewis, Friday, 2 March 2012 12:17:30 PM
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Tony Abbott's political position is built on 3 principles: smaller government; lower taxes; individual liberty. His policy positions for the coming election will be based on these principles. That is why he opposes the carbon tax and the mining tax; the creation of a Department of Climate Change in addition to the pre-existing Department of the Environment; and the restrictions on free speech in Section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act. You might not agree with these principles or these policies but it's hard to argue that Abbott acts inconsistently with his principles. One might contrast this with the current leadership of the ALP.

Paul1405, you should be careful with those chairs of yours. You might do yourself a damage if you keep falling off them.
Posted by Senior Victorian, Friday, 2 March 2012 1:03:17 PM
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For the clear-eyed citizen, there is a growing inner horror and despair with Australian politics in its current guise, with nowhere to turn. Arrogance by both parties is experiential and environmental in cause.

However, for the unquestioning rest, our current political hologram, taken in its entirety, constitutes the Australian collective consciousnesses which keeps the public in an entertained stupor, awed, mislead, and most importantly, distracted.

Whether we love or hate it, there is no escape. The political regime or philosophy does not exist which can turn this scenario around.

The Buddhists and Baptists got it right when they said "The world gets right when the people get it right".

Not much hope here!
Posted by Geoff of Perth, Friday, 2 March 2012 1:13:12 PM
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The PM contacted Bob Car last night, and is now going to be foreign minister. What it's got to do with the noalition, who nows.
Posted by 579, Friday, 2 March 2012 1:14:13 PM
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Actually Brenton, there is a choice at the ballot box other than between Tweedledum and Tweedledee. It is called the Green Party who currently offer a range of progressive policies that historically one looked to Labor to implement.
If one definition of insanity is repeating the same act and expecting a different result, then the Australian electorate is arguably insane for continuing to vote Labor and expecting anything approaching progressive policy, or voting Liberal and expecting anything approaching liberal policies. The National Party are just a self-interested rural rump so don't even bother thinking about them.
Posted by James O'Neill, Friday, 2 March 2012 3:28:23 PM
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...Except James (O’Neill), Australia is predominantly a conservative Country. The PROBLEM with Labor is its alignment with the Greens: That alignment has proved to be an unmitigated disaster.
Posted by diver dan, Saturday, 3 March 2012 7:20:25 AM
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Diver Dan I look forward to the day Abbott forms a government then we shall truly see an 'unmitigated disaster'. A party with no policy, a party with no vision the Liberal Party along with their rump the Country Party. Lets hope we don't hit another major crisis whilst the conservatives are in power, they only have two choices to deal with any crisis, one, go to war and kill millions, or two, batten down the hatches and beat up the little guy. The conservatives have always been an 'unmitigated disaster' in times of crisis. What's it going to be, war, or beatings, great choices.
Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 3 March 2012 7:55:02 AM
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An unwillingness by an opposition party to detail its policys well before an election is not unusual. Detailed costings are difficult without direct access to treasury and incumbants have a massive advantage power wise in their dealings with treasury to ensure that if figures are being picked from one end of a scale the choice is favorable to the government not the opposition. To much warning also gives the encumbants time to manouvere to make announced policies unworkable.

In a better Australia polies would tell the truth, not spin up their own stuff and spin down opposing views. Government departments would be able to tell the truth rather than a truth which lined up with the ministers wants. We are a long way from that Australia and not showing any signs of getting closer.

R0bert
Posted by R0bert, Saturday, 3 March 2012 8:09:54 AM
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@579

<<The PM contacted Bob Car last night, and is now going to be foreign minister>>

If you listen to Bob Carr being interviewed on today's ABC's Radio National, Saturday Extra (unless I miss heard, and I don't think I did) he says he was contacted on "SUNDAY" by the PM (or her rep) about taking up the Foreign Ministers position.
Posted by SPQR, Saturday, 3 March 2012 9:43:20 AM
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The Govt and its supporters seemed stunned by their own incompetence to the point where their only hope is that Tony Abbott might be worse. Labor creates their own myths and live by them as gospel truth.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/opinion/the-myths-of-labors-grand-public-deception/story-e6frgd0x-1226287718495

They now want to convince us they are a 'good government' which has simply lost its way. They blame their failures on anyone but themselves while its obvious to the rest of us they are worse than incompetent.
Posted by Atman, Saturday, 3 March 2012 11:31:12 AM
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Labor enunciated certain policies before the last election, that it then ditched, e.g. it broke its promise to not introduce a carbon tax by getting into bed with the anti-development and anti-population-growth Greens; it dropped its promise to stop the entry of illegal immigrants; it no longer opposes same-sex marriage; it brought in a Fair Work Act that lowers productivity by substantially raising the cost of employing labour. This is hardly the way to endear the stakeholders. It simply cannot be trusted.
Posted by Raycom, Saturday, 3 March 2012 10:02:19 PM
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Oh dear I see the liberal party staffers have been hard at work. I even saw a couple of posts by Tony’s Mum.
As has been noted before we get the Pollies we deserve. A reading of the above post shows how one eyed, forgetful and silly most Australian voters are.
One poster has hit is on the head, our political system will be seen as increasingly dysfunctional in this modern world. Easy access to information and a far more linked in society means that political practices of the past (like Spinning) just look stupid. We need to make some big changes and it will most likely look allot more like Austria's system.
None of these much need changes will happen however until the baby boomers are in nursing homes or graves.

P.S. Liberal voters are so funny with their puffed up Julia lied line. How they can ignore such things as never ever, none core promise, and Tony’s if I didn't write in down I didn't really mean it. But get all huffy about Julia.
Posted by cornonacob, Sunday, 4 March 2012 11:35:09 AM
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cornonacob-

You have all the symptoms of the Labor disease; blaming voters for not supporting Labor, trying to explain Labor's problems as symptomatic of the 'political system' as if they are not responsible for their own incompetence, and sectioning off the boomers as responsible for preferring the Libs. Like Labor, its supporters cannot accept responsibility for the Govts bad decisions.

Its not the baby boomers but the latter generations hooked on the 24 hours news cycle which have turned politics into a circus.

Just face the facts, Labor are hopelessly incompetent.
Posted by Atman, Sunday, 4 March 2012 4:59:17 PM
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"Easy access to information and a far more linked in society means that political practices of the past (like Spinning) just look stupid."

Spinning is very much present now. Labor has developed it into a fine art. It is the main weapon in Labor's armoury. For example:

"CO2 is a pollutant." " Climate change is the moral challenge of the century." Australia will be left behind if it does not act now." "The economic effect of the carbon tax will be insignificant." " Clean energy will give Australia an economic advantage." "The green economy will create many thousands of new jobs."

All of the above claims are fallacious.

In fact, the carbon tax has nothing to do with climate. It is a big new tax revenue scam. The polls are against the carbon tax, and the rest of the world is laughing at us.
Posted by Raycom, Sunday, 4 March 2012 10:49:58 PM
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"All of the above claims are fallacious.

In fact, the carbon tax has nothing to do with climate. It is a big new tax revenue scam. The polls are against the carbon tax, and the rest of the world is laughing at us."

Raycom - IF the rest of the world is laughing at us (as opposed to ... I dunno, being incredibly envious our economy isn't in the gutter after the GFC), they're probably laughing at us because we're still debating things that are widely acknowledged as FACT. I'm amazed that people think they're economic and environmental experts just because they have a political opinion. Leave it to the professionals.

And to answer some of your claims, the carbon tax has almost everything to do with the environment, given that a large chunk of the money raised from it is going towards renewable energy sources (you know, the type that doesn't damage the world). Your claim that it is simply a "big new tax" (nice originality there Tony) revenue scam is utter trash, it is designed to offset hardships that lower income earners/small businesses might incur as a result of moving our economy in line with where the REST OF THE WORLD is going.

Atman "Just face the facts, Labor are hopelessly incompetent."

Far out! We're getting a bit loose with the term "incompetent" aren't we? I'd be interested to know, how did you respond to Alexander Downer and Mark Vaile looking the other way when documents sat on their ministerial desks informing them of what would eventually be known as the 'wheat for weapons' scandal? What issues are you contrasting that make Labor look that bad? Wasted money? Any money that was lost through insulation schemes, school halls, whatever, is NOTHING, i repeat NOTHING in comparison to what Australia would have lost had the Rudd government not did what it did when it did. Don't believe me? Ask any government in the world, and they'll tell you how amazed they are at Australia's economy and the handling of that economy during the GFC
Posted by Marc Antony, Sunday, 4 March 2012 11:33:25 PM
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Continued:

Funnily enough I didn't actually come here to argue (or defend Labor).. It's simply unfortunate that this article has attracted your run of the mill liberal supporter (the type that gloss over an article, see that it says labor is bad, then goes on to spew anti-labor nonsense despite it having nothing to do with the article). Because it appeared to me the article was discussing the need for greater democracy, as opposed to say labor's alleged incompetent policy making.

I for one agree that there needs to be greater public involvement in our nations political parties and policy direction. The idea of party members at a public level voting on who leads their party and what policy they take is an EXCELLENT idea, what greater way is there to get people interested in politics than getting them involved in the process!?
Posted by Marc Antony, Sunday, 4 March 2012 11:35:42 PM
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The 2 so called "progressive" parties ie the ALP and greens have socialist policies that date back to the 70s and 80s with the high taxation and welfare policies that have proven to discourage growth, and union friendly labour laws that discourage full time employment.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Monday, 5 March 2012 1:17:26 PM
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New jobs figures out today show a 3.3 rise in advertised jobs. We need more immigration to fill the job vacancies.
Posted by 579, Monday, 5 March 2012 1:44:40 PM
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"IF the rest of the world is laughing at us ... they're probably laughing at us because we're still debating things that are widely acknowledged as FACT."

Marc Antony, the IPCC and its faithful followers have conned you into accepting ASSERTION as FACT. The FACT is that the IPCC has failed to validate the climate models that it has used successfully to alarm and con politicians, the media, certain learned societies and scientists, and unquestioning voters. It has not produced any empirical scientific evidence to prove the hypothesis that anthropogenic CO2 emissions cause dangerous global warming. The strongest endorsement that the IPCC can give is the ASSERTION, "Most of the observed increase in globally averaged temperature since the mid-20th century is very likely due to the observed increase in anthropogenic greenhouse gas concentrations”.

Despite the economy-wide disruption that a carbon tax would cause, the Government failed to carry out due diligence on climate science. It simply accepted the IPCC dogma.

"The carbon tax has almost everything to do with the environment, given that a large chunk of the money raised from it is going towards renewable energy sources (you know, the type that doesn't damage the world)."

The FACT is that the carbon tax will not have an effect on climate change. There is no scientific justification for levying a carbon tax. Nor is there economic justification. Wind and solar are naturally unreliable and inefficient renewable energy sources. They require coal- or gas-fired backup power to make them stable sources of supply, and consequently wind-generated electricity is at least twice as expensive as coal-fired power, while solar-powered electricity is around ten times as expensive. This is despite the intense R & D carried out overseas on both forms of renewable energy . Consequently, the Greens-coerced $10 billion allocated by the Govt for renewable energy R& D will be wasted. The Government has already spent billions for little or no return, e.g. pink batts fiasco; the BER expenditure did not improve education standards; the nationalisation of telecommunications for the NBN will result in us having the world's highest wideband prices.
Posted by Raycom, Tuesday, 6 March 2012 11:51:45 PM
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