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The Forum > Article Comments > Pressure Israel, not Iran > Comments

Pressure Israel, not Iran : Comments

By Marjorie Cohn, published 20/1/2012

In over 200 years Iran has not declared war against any other country, so why would it do so now?

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There are repeated threats by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to wipe Israel off the map. Iranians provide huge support for radical Palestinian and Lebanese groups seeking its destruction.

In addition, a successful Iranian bid to acquire the bomb will set off an unprecedented nuclear arms race throughout the region. Arab countries such as Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and the United Arab Emirates will want to create their own nuclear insurance policies in the face of Tehran's belligerence and regional ambitions. This compounds the threat to Israel.

Marjorie Cohn apparently hates both her own country and Israel.
Posted by DavidL, Friday, 20 January 2012 8:32:23 AM
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Another pathetic article from the same author that wanted NATO to leave the poor misunderstood Qaddafi alone.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Friday, 20 January 2012 10:06:58 AM
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DavidL:

...The reality is, Israel is a failed state. It makes no contribution towards peace in the region, is a total threat to stability and survival of neighbouring countries, and is nuclear armed and itching to use them; radical and paranoid! (And American funded)!
Posted by diver dan, Friday, 20 January 2012 10:14:40 AM
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The Israel obsessed author cannot conceive of the fact that US policies against Iran are largely in defence of Saudi Arabia and even weaker Gulf states such as the UAE, Oman and Kuwait.

Militarily weak Saudi Arabia has more to fear from Iran than militarily strong Israel.

Saudi Arabia has a nuclear weapons deal with Pakistan which, to an extent, provides a nuclear deterrent against Iran.

But unstable Pakistani help cannot be fully relied on – hence the Saudis, UAE and Egyptians have extensive nuclear reactor programs http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2011/06/01/Saudi-Arabia-to-build-16-nuclear-reactors/UPI-48881306926260/ partly to provide some groundwork for the option to build nuclear weapons if Iran builds them.

See second part of this article http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=9915

The US is concerned that a nuclear arms race in the Middle East, not only involving Israel versus Muslim countries, but between Shiite and Sunni Muslim countries will be too volatile for the US, or any other power, to control.

The US is also acting in the interests of the broader Western world, including Australia.

All this is apparently beyond the author's blinkered Israel/US centric knowledge.

Pete
Posted by plantagenet, Friday, 20 January 2012 10:19:31 AM
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He has not said he wants to wipe Israel off the map, that lie has been concocted by the zionists and neocons, he said "this regime will one day end like the communist regime", and he was quoting the US installed Ayotallah from over 40 years ago.

Iran has not attacked anyone but Israel has attacked and/or occupied Lebanon, Palestine, Syria, Jordan and Egypt over and over again to gain land.

And as Iran is the best friend of Palestine why would they nuke Israel and murder the Palestinians as well.

Honestly the shills for Israel are pathetic.
Posted by Marilyn Shepherd, Friday, 20 January 2012 1:37:27 PM
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"Pressure Israel, not Iran" Pressure Israel? That will be the day when pigs fly.

Interesting article. Since the fall of the Shah the main game for the Americans appears to be the 'containment' of Iran, sometimes through surrogates such as Saddam Hussein.That didn't go well, so now they'll have to do it themselves. What will the US do to make the ME 'safe' for its fellow predator, Israel?

Mossad must have a lot of incriminating evidence on many powerful people in the US or perhaps Americans are just habitual warmongers.
Posted by mac, Friday, 20 January 2012 2:26:49 PM
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Israel isn't building nuclear weapons so that it can give them to terrorists who want to blow up Tel Aviv, New York, or Sydney, Marjorie.

Israel is a democracy, while Iran is a religious dictatorship.

Which side you should support is a no brainer, girlie.
Posted by LEGO, Friday, 20 January 2012 3:06:31 PM
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In addition to the author's ignorance of non-Israeli reasons for US concern over Iran (see my comments above) the claim that Iran is somehow peaceloving is a fallacy.

"In over 200 years Iran has not declared war against any other country, so why would it do so now?" is deceptive - few countries actually declare war these days they just fight wars - millions of their own and their enemies citizens die.

Iran was very much a participant in the 8 year Iran-Iraq War from 1980 to 1988 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Iraq_War

Iran took Iraqi territory on several occasions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Iraq_War#Iran_victorious .

And then there was Iran's use of its own children to clear minefields by stepping on mines http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Iraq_War#Human_wave

The author's already obvious ignorance extends to Iran's recent history - perhaps some earlier commentors also forget?

Or are people being sucked in by the legalism of not declaring a war but fighting it anyway?

Pete
Posted by plantagenet, Friday, 20 January 2012 3:08:15 PM
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plenty have tried to remove Israel from the map over a long period of time. Thankfully their God brings its enemies to nought. Read the end of the book.
Posted by runner, Friday, 20 January 2012 4:42:35 PM
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The religious nutters be they Zionist,Catholic,or Muslim are all the same.It is a big game in which the elites use religion,race,left/right to divide the masses while they keep us in debt slavery.

The Elites in the West want Global domination much like Hitler and the USSR wanted.This Western aggression has made China and Russia unite to maintain their sovereignity.

The recent to be war games in the Gulf of Hormuz with Israel and the USA have been postponed.Why? China who has been silent till now said an attack on Iran will not preclude China using all its force including nuclear weapons to keep Iran free.The Western Imperialists want Irananian oil just like Iraqi oil.It will make oil more expensive for us since there will be less competition.
Posted by Arjay, Friday, 20 January 2012 8:13:31 PM
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Perhaps Iran's efforts to undermine the petro (US) dollar by selling its oil and gas in yuen and other currencies is another driving factor in the US rhetoric against Iran.

Saddam attempted the same thing and look what happened to him!

Iran, far from being isolated, has many nations outside of the West which have either a dependency on, or active support for Iran (such as Venezuela). Hopefully this will counter balance any military adventurism.
Posted by leckos, Friday, 20 January 2012 8:26:01 PM
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Note Leckos that Japan and China have just agreed to dump the US $ for trade.They now trade directly.Also India did not send its PM to CHOGM.Gillard was the told by Obama to sell Uranium to India against Labor/Greens policy,to placate India.
Posted by Arjay, Friday, 20 January 2012 8:42:17 PM
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" China who has been silent till now said an attack on Iran will not preclude China using all its force including nuclear weapons to keep Iran free."

Arjay, who said this? Please reference.
Posted by Stezza, Saturday, 21 January 2012 1:09:19 AM
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@DavidL The Iranians never said they would wipe Israel off the map. That is a tired lie that doesn't improve with constant repetition.

@Lego Israel a democracy? You have got to be joking. either that or blind to the facts.

@Plantagenet Iran was a "participant" in the 8 year war with Iraq. The reason: Iraq attacked them. The Americans incidentally were arming both sides.

Majorie Cohn is one of the clearest voices on the illegalities and stupidities of US and Israeli aggression in the Middle East. Most of the responses to her article, and I have quoted only three of the most egregious, are plainly stupid at best.
Posted by James O'Neill, Saturday, 21 January 2012 9:14:41 AM
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Well considering that most of the responses come from the Israel can do no wrong crowd,and David who I think is the cheif member of the Israeli propaganda dept on OLO what did you expect.
Like the bit about Israel being a democracy to when did that happen it is a Racist state
Posted by John Ryan, Saturday, 21 January 2012 10:04:10 AM
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Stezza have a look at this , http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ugq-KleU8IA Major General Zhang Zhaozhong, "China will not hesitate to protect Iran even with a third world war." There was another ref to Hu Jintao on Veterans Today that I cannot find.

Also Russia has issued warnings, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuVMO1u8sE4 There is evidence that the USA has been using limited strategic nukes in Iraq and possibly Libya.Prof Chis Busby has found evidence in Fallujia of radio activity that is not just Depleted Uranium but a processing to bomb grade uranium.If the USA has them then Russia/China also has them. Where to you draw the line when size is the only limiting factor?
Posted by Arjay, Saturday, 21 January 2012 10:38:17 AM
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Greeting Mr James O'Neill.

The claim by people with your peculiar mindset that the President of Iran has not promised to wipe Israel off the map, is oftern repeated here on OLO. But it has been repeatedly quoted as a fact by the newspapers I read. Now, I know that newspapers can not be trusted to tell the truth, but then again, neither can left wingers. I personally think that the Iranians are trying to be the North Koreans of the Middle East, and given their total hatred of Israel, then the idea that the "elected" President of Iran probably did say it would be entirely within character.

On the whole, I think that newspapers have far more credibility than people like yourself. Especially since even the limp wristed Europeans are crapping themselves over Iran's behaviour, to the extent that they are even refusing to purchase Iranian oil. Oil is blood to advanced societies, so they must be getting really concerned to resort to that.

Yes, Israel is a democracy, their parliament is called the "knesset" and their Prime Minister is an elected official. The only Arab Muslim states which could be construed as "democracies" are those which recently fell through revolutions. And since the people of those new democracies seem to be electing Muslim fundamentalists as their leaders, one presumes that Arab democracies will soon come to resemble African democracies. One man, one vote, once.

I doubt if the US was "arming both sides" in the Iran/Iraq war, because the Yanks absolutely hate the Iranian regime. But if they did, so what? Letting two fruitcake regimes that were a danger to world stability kill each other off sounds like a smart move to me. Just give either side enough at the right times so that no one can win.
Posted by LEGO, Sunday, 22 January 2012 4:59:36 AM
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Thanks Arjay, although I can't find any evidence for the existence of Major General Zhang Zhaozhong, other than this youtube video and blogs that refer to it. I understand that China and Russia would not want the US invading another one of their trading partners, but I seriously doubt that they would defend iran militarily. Referring to nukes makes it even more unbelievable. That just doesn't make sense.

I usually view these matters with a non-aligned point of view. From here is is quite obvious that people who are in either camp end up completely blinkered to reality. Two sayings I enjoy are: those who have the gold make the rules and there are no rules in love and war.

Good comments plantagenet.
Posted by Stezza, Sunday, 22 January 2012 5:17:47 AM
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Stezza,Major General Zhang Zhoazhong does exist.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhu_Chenghu Now The confusion is that here are two who are Major Generals.ZU Zhang Zhaozhong is mentioned here by Zhu Chenghu.Zhu Chenghu is even more aggessive in his statements saying that if the USA attacks any of their ships etc they will relatiate with nukes.

See also http://globalresearch.ca/ The First story.'Obama's Secret Letter to Tehran'.In this letter Obama has assured Iran that the US will not attack it.This does not mean Israel won't attack and drag us all into war and poverty.

The West cannot afford to wage war against China/Russia or Iran.Our economies have been wrecked by the Banking/Military/Industrial Complex that JFK warned us about.We have no manufacturing to support a protracted wars.The US Military treat their soldiers poorly subjecting them to Depleted Uranium and they suffer Gulf War Syndrome.The ex -vets are very angry.We in the West are now becoming aware of the lies of 911 and the Wars of Imperialism waged to steal energy and contain China like they did to Japan prior WW2.

The West imposed trade embagoes on Japan and tried to restrict their access to energy.That is why Japan attacked Pearl Harbour.Aust warned the USA that the Japs were about to attack.They needed Pearl Harbour since the US people wanted no part of the War with Germany.

Now China/Russia have called their bluff,one wonders what their next plan is.The elites in the West have a problem of a growing awareness in their populations about their treachery and the how the banking system counterfeits our currencies and destroys real wealth.

Obama and many of Congress can be charged with treason ( Destruction of their Constitution) and war crimes.Bush and Blair have just recently been found gulity of war crimes in a Kuala Lumpur International High Court.They have to watch where they travel.
Posted by Arjay, Sunday, 22 January 2012 7:21:25 AM
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[Deleted for abuse.]
Posted by James O'Neill, Sunday, 22 January 2012 6:02:55 PM
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[Deleted for abuse.]
Posted by LEGO, Monday, 23 January 2012 3:54:36 AM
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Iran along with Japan are dumping the US $ for trade.This will see the collapse of the US $.Saddham tried also to dump the US $,that is the main reason he had to go.There were no WMD's.
Posted by Arjay, Monday, 23 January 2012 4:40:06 AM
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Hey Racist,

'Letting two fruitcake regimes that were a danger to world stability kill each other off sounds like a smart move to me. Just give either side enough at the right times so that no one can win.'

using your oddball logic it would seem reasonable for the US to support equally both fruitcake sides in the Israel Palestinian dispute?

Wouldn't it?
Posted by imajulianutter, Monday, 23 January 2012 9:03:30 AM
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Arjay,

I'm sorry, but the concept that China would retaliate with nukes against the US if it takes action is purest fantasy on your behalf.

While the Chinese have a vested interest in Iranian oil supply, they also have an interest in preventing proliferation, Secondly while they have nukes sufficient to deter a direct attack from the US, they do not have nearly enough ABMs to defend against the onslaught of ICBMs and Submarine launched missiles that would exterminate China in retaliation for a first strike.

While you might believe that a few generals might lead China to martyrdom on a point of oil supply, I doubt anyone in China does.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Monday, 23 January 2012 10:33:49 AM
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Haven't the comments rather gotten away from the point that Cohn was making: that pressuring Iran (which is not a nuclear power nor a belligerent in the Middle East) and ignoring Israel which is both is misplaced.

Opinion polls conducted by reputable polers in the Middle East indicate that the overwhelming majority of ordinary citizens in those countries regard Israel and the US as the greatest threats to peace in their region. That is not of course the view of the leaders of those countries which is one reason why the people are rebelling. They are sick and tired of being satraps of the Americans.

The modern history of the Middle East shows that the US will go to great lengths to support dictatorships, so long as they support US policy. Genuine nationalist movements are seen as a threat and rapidly undermined or overthrown. Iran in 1953 is a classic example. Mossadegh's crime was to nationalize the oil companies (forerunner of BP). He was overthrown in a CIA coup and replaced by the Shah, an American puppet. 26 years of brutal rule followed. It is scarcely surprising that the Iranians have memories of such conduct, and other events such as the American supported invasion by Iraq that lead to an 8 year war in which at least a million Iranians died.

Now we have the Americans clearly preparing for another war with Iran and as Cohn has pointed out in other articles already conducting acts of war such as sabotage, assassinations and now sanctions. None of which are remotely justified. Yet again, Australia is the loyal ally. God help us all.
Posted by James O'Neill, Monday, 23 January 2012 10:51:16 AM
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somewhat biased, America is prepared for war, if Iran does not give up their ambition of making bombs. You can not have A bombs in the hands of radicals. America is giving Iran every chance to toe the line.
Posted by 579, Monday, 23 January 2012 11:25:35 AM
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Shadow Minister,I'm just repeating what two Chinese Major Generals have stated.It may not be true about their real intent but they have successfully bluffed Obama and the USA into submission.The Israeli/USA ware games in the Gulf have been canelled.Robert Baer EX-CIA predicted this.( Google it on 2GB,Robert Baer Ray Hadley interview)He was here in 2010 saying the very words that Obama is mouthing.They are broke and cannot afford a war with Iran.

After the Libyan invasion the USA/NATO were ready to take Syria.Russia sent several nuke subs and 3 war ships.They also armed Syria with serious conventional weapons.Now both Russia and China have warned off the West in attacking Iran.

The West as I've previously stated cannot sustain a serious conventional war with Russia,China or Iran.We have let a corrupt financial system take us all to the cleaners.
Posted by Arjay, Monday, 23 January 2012 5:09:22 PM
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579: In what way was my comment "biased". I was simply stating verifiable facts.
Where is your evidence that Iran has ambitons to build an atomic bomb? All 16 US intelligence agencies unanimously concluded twice (the latest last year) that Iran did not have a nuclear weapons program.
Iran is a signatory to the non-proliferation treaty and as such has to submit to verification inspections by the IAEA. The last such inspection was in late 2011. Again, no evidence of a nuclear weapons program.
Israel on the other hand is not a signatory to the NPT and refuses to allow inspections.
Perhaps you can enlighten us as to the legal basis for the US to be giving Iran (or anyone else for that matter) a last chance to toe the line. It is precisely this arrogance of power that much of the world is heartily sick of.
Posted by James O'Neill, Monday, 23 January 2012 6:06:18 PM
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The opinion polls from the Middle East are absolutely right, James O’Neill, all Arabs know that the US is the main obstacle to peace. Because without the US, the Arabs would can destroy Israel, massacre or expel the Jews, and then there will be peace.

The US supported the Shah, James, because he was the lesser of three evils. Which regime would you prefer? A right wing, pro European dictatorship, which was trying to drag its people into the 20th century? Or a left wing dictatorship allied to the Soviet Union, which would mean it would end up with a Soviet economy resembling North Korea, Cuba or Albania? Or, a religious dictatorship which damn near hates everybody who is not a Shiite, and which wants to turn Iran back to the 7th Century?

The Iranians lost a couple of million killed when Iraq attacked Iran. But Saddam would never have done that when the Shah was in power, because the Shah would have wiped the floor with Saddam. All of those Iranian students who supported Khomeini are probably dead and pushing up daisies in the swamps of Basra, and those who survived probably wish that the Shah was back. At least they could still get a cold beer in Tehran.

Now, you and I just might be in agreement over any US attack on Iran. I don’t think the US should do it. It would be better for the Iranians to give a nuclear weapon to the Palestinans, because everybody knows just how peace loving the Palestinians are. With a bit of luck, they maty detonate an atom bomb in Tel Aviv, and the Israelis will let fly with their Jericho missiles, and nobody will ever have to worry about Iran for the rest of time. It will be converted into a giant sheet of glass.

When that happens, people like your good self can then go into paroxysms of self righteous indignation, saying that it was all the fault of the USA for not bombing Iran when they had the chance.
Posted by LEGO, Monday, 23 January 2012 7:14:33 PM
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James O'Neill,both LEGO and 579 are trolls.They have a subversive agenda totally the opposite to Ron Paul libertariarism.Ignore them.
Posted by Arjay, Monday, 23 January 2012 8:00:55 PM
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Arjay,

The fact that the USA can wipe the floor with Iran, does not mean that war is what the US is seeking. All that it needs is some hot head Iranian to take a few pot shots for the US to be forced to retaliate.

The US has not submitted, and its threat stands.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Monday, 23 January 2012 8:33:46 PM
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Shadow Minister.The US/NATO is stone cold motherless broke.They cannot beat pissy Afghanistan with 25 million people.What chance have they of beating 1200 million people in China?

It's all over.Israel needs to crawl back to its hole and make peace with the Palistinians and face reality.They like the Catholics,Muslims,Buddists must realise that they are not the centre of the universe.
Posted by Arjay, Monday, 23 January 2012 9:21:57 PM
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Hi Julian-the-nutter, long time no see.

What is "oddball" about letting the free world's enemies kill each other off? Looks poetic to me.

There will be peace in the Middle East when the Arabs and the Persians stop trying to exterminate the Israelis. But that is not going to happen. Now that the Gyppoes have elected an anti democratic, Islamist (read, religious Nazi) regime, they will now want to go to war with Israel again.

It is ironic. The communists once claimed that a communist state would never go to war with another Socialist state, because "workers would never kill workers." And the yanks once bragged that democracies never go to war with each other. Afghanistan and Russia proved the Ruskis wrong, and Egypt and Israel may prove the yanks wrong.

My prediction is that, provided that the Egyption Army does not stage another coup, the new Gyppoe government will break the peace treaty with Israel and start moving troops back into Sinai.

Things could get very interesting again. I am pissed off with the yanks for being stupid enough to sell F-16's and M1A1 tanks to the gyppoes. That must be giving the Israeli fighter pilots and tank commanders nightmares. Why the yanks sell or give their most advanced weaponry to unstable and unreliable regimes is beyond me. They would be better off just giving the things to Australia, at least they know who's side we are on.

Well, most of us are on, anyway. I know that there are a lot of third worlders infesting Australia now who despise westerners and love our enemies, but who all want to live with us.

But if there is another fight for Sinai, I presume that the Israelis will win again, and this time they will learn to never give up land taken from the enemy, especially if that land is critical to your defence, and contains valuable resources which can make your country bigger and stronger,and your sworn enemies smaller and weaker.
Posted by LEGO, Tuesday, 24 January 2012 3:49:38 AM
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Arjay,

They beat the snot out of Afghanistan in a few weeks. The EU and the US have economic troubles presently but are not broke.

The US air force and Navy are still by far the strongest in the world, and the US could easily confine China to its borders. A nuclear conflict would see China a pile of radioactive ash. And there is not a snowball's chance in hell that China would take on the US.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Tuesday, 24 January 2012 4:35:16 AM
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PS

It looks as though Iran has backed down.

"The softening of Iran's position followed a warning by a US emissary this month that any effort to close the strait would trigger a potentially devastating US response. Clearly, Tehran got the message - with a top Iranian official on Friday publicly disavowing the earlier sabre-rattling."
Posted by Shadow Minister, Tuesday, 24 January 2012 4:40:02 AM
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Thx. excellent article, clear, intelligent, aware. Israel + US appalling tactics look like leading the world to another war. Nothing learned from Iraq. Mossad assassinations, N.armed Israel not party to NPT + US sanctions on Iran econ. + US taxpayer billions to Israel, recipe for disaster. Nuclear free M.E. way to go. When will warmongers cease?
Posted by quake, Tuesday, 24 January 2012 12:58:54 PM
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lego,

the racist filth that spews from your facial oriface is not in the western tradition. It is like the Israeli propaganda you've sucked up and has more in common with National Socialism and Hitler.

Why do you bother? Like Singer you demean yourself so much ... and really like Singer, you are assisting the causes and countries you hatefully rail against.

Keep it up ... you are guaranteed to evetually have everyoe destesting you.
Posted by imajulianutter, Tuesday, 24 January 2012 8:02:46 PM
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To all of those ignorant or incompetent who insist on continuing to 'catapult the propaganda' about 'wiping Israel from the map" and that includes Netanyahu, I offer the following cut n'paste from Global Research.

The full quote translated directly to English:
"The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time". (That's 'regime', Likud, the army with a territory.)

Word by word translation:
Imam (Khomeini) ghoft (said) een (this) rezhim-e (regime) ishghalgar-e (occupying) qods (Jerusalem) bayad (must) az safheh-ye ruzgar (from page of time) mahv shavad (vanish from).

The speech in Farsi, archived on Ahmadinejad's web site:
www.president.ir/farsi/ahmadinejad/speeches/1384/aban-84/840804sahyonizm.htm

Iran is not a threat to anybody in the region.
It is an obstacle to Western/Zionist imperial ambition to take resources those dumb furryners have the temerity to live above.
Iran is responding to several years of Western/Zionist belligerence and blatant covert operations including killings, in and around its own borders, actions which would have any Western/Zionist 'leader' hopping up and down and frothing at the mouth.

It would be beyond foolish to continue to antagonise the situation, particularly as 1) Iran offered/asked for talks some years ago and was rebuffed 2) It would quickly lead to the broader catastrophic conflagration that has been portrayed in 'Mad Max'
Posted by RichMan, Tuesday, 24 January 2012 9:19:37 PM
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You must be an old bugger, Richman. I presume from your rant about Iran "not being a threat to anybody" that you must have been around in 1937 when Churchill was trying to warn the world about Germany, and people like you were poh poohing the idea that Germany was a threat to world peace, and screaming that Churchill was just a warmonger.

Were you also one of those slogan daubers who snuck around London in 1940 painting "SAY NO TO THE SECOND IMPERIALIST WAR!"?

When Germany invaded Russia, Churchill noted with some amusement that the slogan daubers had been busy overnight, painting over their previous work with "FIGHT IN THE SECOND PATRIOTIC WAR!"

Portraying yourself as a advocate of world peace is a noble pose. But ignoring the threat of a religious Nazi Iran, because you don't want to face up to reality, is not the position of a mature human being. The Iranian leadership hates everybody who is not an Iranian Shiite who grovels to his or her Imam. They mean to cause nuclear armed trouble with the ungodly infidels and they are going to do just that.

The only question which remains, is what we in the civilised world should do to prevent it. But one thing is for sure, whatever we do to stop this dangerous regime, people like you will always criticise it and always take the opposing view.
Posted by LEGO, Wednesday, 25 January 2012 4:16:31 AM
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Shadow Minister

'It looks as though Iran has backed down.'

It might be so but it is jut as likely Iran is merely playing a stalling game.

Everyone involved knows that within a year all of Iran's Nuclear development will be done underground and far from any Israeli air threat.

The Yanks won't dare supply Israel with the weapons needed to destroy those underground structures and the Yanks won't use them themselves against Iran and risk starting WWIII ... especially at the behest of the fruitcake Israelis.

The sooner the US and all the Mid East nations start accepting a nuclear armed and defended Iran the sooner peace will come to Palestine and Israeli expansionism and oppression will be curbed.

A nuclear armed fruitcake regime in Iran is now inevitable... a balance to the nuclear armed fruitcake regime in Israel.
Posted by imajulianutter, Wednesday, 25 January 2012 8:37:20 AM
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IJN,

Short of invading Iran there is not guaranteed way to stop them building Nukes. Sanctions especially those that bite economically are effectively both psychologically and hurt the regime.

The reality is that a nuclear armed Iran makes the area less stable.

As Iran does not share a border with Israel, Israel is not an invasion threat, and a Nuke strike on Israel would invite massive retaliation. So the only people it can hope to deter would be its neighbours, who are not a threat.

A nuclear armed Iran is not a scenario that the west is likely to accept for decades, and the regime would see the sanctions in place for a similar period.

A rogue bomb in the hands of terrorists detonated any where in the west would leave a fingerprint traced back to Iran with predictable consequences.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Wednesday, 25 January 2012 10:28:38 AM
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'Short of invading Iran there is not guaranteed way to stop them building Nukes.'

Then we agree it is inevitable. The US pulled out of Iraq and will pull out of Afghanistan. That's the will of the US people. They won't allow another involvement in the Mid East ... no matter how much Israel tries to maniplate such an outcome.

Israel's only threat to Iran is by air strike.

Iran will survive sanctions just as did Saddam for years. The Europeans despite their talk will buy Iranian oil through the backdoor ... cheaply.
Posted by imajulianutter, Wednesday, 25 January 2012 5:05:18 PM
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As an antidote to some of the more rabid contributions above may I commend that people read Peter Jenkins' article in this morning's SMH, reprinted from the Daily Telepgraph (UK), "Iran deal would allow West to make U-turn on highway to war."

Sanity amidst the ongoing stupidity of US foreign policy, exemplified yet again today in Obama's State of the Union address.
Posted by James O'Neill, Wednesday, 25 January 2012 6:35:57 PM
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If the Israelis launch an airstrike on Iran, then I can't criticise them for that. They know exactly what is at stake. They have been the victims of genocide before, and they will do whatever it takes to prevent that happening again. The Israeli airstrike on the Iraqi "Ossirak" nuclear facility in the early 1980's did more for world peace than in five minutes than all of the UN resolutions passed in the last 60 years.

I don't think that the Yanks should get involved in an invasion of Iran, because a war with Iran would be a very serious war. I do not think that the US electorate would support it, because it is understandable that people prefer not to contemplate whatever they dread, however necessary.

We saw exactly the same phenomona in Europe in 1936, when men like Churchill urged the Europeans to unite and destroy the Nazi regime in Germany, which was obviously rearming for war. Although a united Europe could have easily overcome Germany in 1936, it would still have been a very bloody and costly war. But nobody wanted another bad war, so the German sore was left to fester until Hitler was good and ready to strike.

It was only good luck and heroism that all of Europe was not completely conquored by the Germans. But at least when the civilised world struck back, it was united in it's conviction that the destruction of Germany justified all sacrifices, and all means necessary.

Sadly, I think that something similar will have to happen today before the civilised world realises that destroying nuclear armed religious Nazis justifies all sacrifices and means.

Thank whichever God you pray to that Hitler did not have nuclear weapons, and that people like Julianthenutter, Arjay, and James O'Neill were not around in 1939 to play devil's advocate for Hitler.
Posted by LEGO, Thursday, 26 January 2012 5:31:35 AM
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Lego,

Arjay, James O'Neill and myself with our postings have displayed a grasp of the realities. That you don't like the truths we write of is an accurate description of the display of your unsupported asertions.

We've pointed out the Israelis really haven't the means to stop Iran's move to nuclear weapons. So why attack them?

What you need to do is show us how an Israeli attack can destroy Iran's nuclear program. You haven't done that all you've done is attack us because we've stated the obvious. Which, on the evidence of your ramblings, is something you cannot process rationally.

It is also a fair display of your limited cognitive processes that you cannot discern the similarities between your and the aparthied socialist Israelis views and the views that were once adopted by the racist socialist Nazis.

The only regime in the mid east with a long history of attacking it's neighbours and of carrying out a genocide is the aparthied Israel.

You are supporting them attacking another soverign nation. Sheesh and you think me an apologist.
Posted by imajulianutter, Thursday, 26 January 2012 8:24:24 AM
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'It was only good luck and heroism that all of Europe was not completely conquored by the Germans. But at least when the civilised world struck back, it was united in it's conviction that the destruction of Germany justified all sacrifices, and all means necessary'

rubbish.

The yanks saved Europe. They did not nuke Germany therefore they didn't use all their 'means'.
Posted by imajulianutter, Thursday, 26 January 2012 8:29:43 AM
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Hi Julianthenutter (singularly appropriate name).

I was a round in 1967 when the all of the Arab states were openly bragging about how they were going to smash Israel, and wipe it right off the map. The Arab forces were overwhelming, and nobody gave Israel much hope of repelling the attack. Egypt began that attack when it blockaded the Israeli port of Eilat. A blockade is an act of war. By what application of doublethink you use to claim that the Israelis attacked the Egyptians is beyond me. I think that such cognitive dissonance can only be achieved with people who have the misfortune of inheriting intellectual abilities from the shallow end of the gene pool.

As for my views being akin to those of the Nazis, hey boy, you are the one who despises Jews, not me. Hitler would be proud of your hatred of Israel.

If a military strike on Iran will not significantly damage the Iranian nuclear bomb manufacturing industry, then it is reasonable to presume that the Israelis will not bother to do it. If they are contemplating such a strike, then they know something that you and I don’t. The German Red Army Faction fruitcakes who hijacked a Lufthansa airliner and forced the pilot to fly them to Entebbe airport in Uganda thought that it was impossible for the Israelis to get them, but the Israelis did just that, and now they are all dead.

A lot of Arabs too are dead also because they underestimated the Israelis. How many Nobel prizes for science have the Jews had? Now, how many have the Arabs had? When it comes to the people of a failed civilization pushing around a successful society populated by smart people, I know who’s side I am on.

The yanks did not drop the bomb on Germany because the war in Europe was almost over before the bombs became operational. But the US Army Air Force and the RAF killed more Germans in Dresden using conventional bombs than the yanks killed Japs in Hiroshima.

Keep it up, Julian, you are easy meat.
Posted by LEGO, Thursday, 26 January 2012 9:15:05 AM
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Lego,

you've got to stop making things up. You can't be taken too seriously.

Quote where I ever said the Israelis attacked the Egyptians.

Quote where I have ever refered to Jewish people, let alone uttered any slur that shows I despise Jewish people.

Critising the disgraceful behaviour of Israel's regime and it's supporters is not the same as hating a whole nation, fool.

You still haven't disproven the overwhelming and conventional view that the nuclear aims of the Iranians can be stopped by the Israelis.
Hoping the Israelis can stop that because they killed a few dozen terrorists at a third world airport isn't quite in the same realm as showing a rational argument Israel can overcome the entire Iranian nation and it's nuclear aims... using force.

You have never read Mein Kamf.

Good to see you agree you were wrong and that it was the Yanks who actually saved Europe.

The Dresden slaughter wasn't the worst bombing raid the German people suffered in WWII.

Why is it that you seem to revel in war and death? Have you a problem or are you just an angry impotent little man.

Yeah everyone's easy meat if you use strawman arguments. You can't lose unless you are an imbecile. I expect you'd lose an argument in such a senario.
Posted by imajulianutter, Thursday, 26 January 2012 3:17:15 PM
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Hi Julianthenutther

You said that Israel "attacked its neighbours”. Egypt is a “neighbour.” One of the outrageous lies often published here on OLO by Israel/Jew hating people like you, is that Israel started the Six Day War, therefore this shows that it is the Israelis who are the aggressors. That is complete and utter BS. It is not just a lie, it is a ridiculous lie. It equates with the belief by Muslims that the Jews caused 9/11.

Since the very inception of the State of Israel, the Arabs have done everything in their power to destroy it. The Israelis have beaten back every Arab attack. They have expanded their borders at the expense of their enemies, and good luck to them. When the Arabs stop shooting at the Israelis, the Israelis will stop shooting back. But the Arabs will never do that, because the existence of the state of Israel is an offence to their God. How you, as a supposedly intelligent person, can go into bat for a bunch of religious imperialists, who want to destroy another state for religious reasons, is beyond me. Especially when the Muslim civilization is an utter failure. The ultimate test of Islam is, that the more Islamic a state is, the more of a sheetfight it is.

I am not here to prove or disprove that an attack on Iran by Israel to destroy the Iranian nuclear weapons program will succeed or not. But if the Israelis are contemplating such an attack, then they must have weighed the chances of success and failure. If they think it can be done, then it probably can.

As for your hatred of Jews, Israel is a Jewish state which is supported by Jews all over the world. The Arabs make no distinction between Israelis or Jews anywhere, they quite openly hate them all. If you want to take the side of the Jew haters who want to exterminate the Israelis, then sure looks to me like you have a problem with Jews, regardless of whether you openly admit it or not.
Posted by LEGO, Thursday, 26 January 2012 8:33:47 PM
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You betray yourself Lego.

You seem to have overlooked illegal occupastions as aggression, Lebanon, Syria, and of course the Israeli's immediate neighbours.

You seem blinded by your loathesomeness.

I hate nobody and have never expressed such an illness.
Posted by imajulianutter, Friday, 27 January 2012 8:51:19 AM
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Lego,

you are a racist mysognist coward.

Your words in your posts clearly show that.

I can quote them numerous times.

Now since you call me Jew hating I dare you to cite even one occassion on which I have incited or expressed either open or covert hatred for Jewish people.

Your usually crappy generalisations and strawman intrepretations are not acceptable.

Come on now coward... put up or face the consequenses.

Oh and

'I am not here to prove or disprove that an attack on Iran by Israel to destroy the Iranian nuclear weapons program will succeed or not.'

is a long long way from

'and the Israelis will let fly with their Jericho missiles, and nobody will ever have to worry about Iran for the rest of time. It will be converted into a giant sheet of glass.'

and this, (makes me doubt your sanity)

'If a military strike on Iran will not significantly damage the Iranian nuclear bomb manufacturing industry, then it is reasonable to presume that the Israelis will not bother to do it. If they are contemplating such a strike, then they know something that you and I don’t.'

What exactly are you on??
Posted by imajulianutter, Friday, 27 January 2012 9:16:32 AM
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Do we HAVE to have this terrible verbal warfare on Comments? Lego, if you can't limit your comments to the article in rational terms, then shut up. Your words do nothing to enlighten. There's much more evidence to enlighten around. Do a bit of research..
Posted by quake, Friday, 27 January 2012 9:51:58 AM
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Hi Julanthenutter.

The Golan Heights is a strategic area and absolutely vital to Isreals defence. The Israelis took the Golan Heights from Syria, and they lost 500 tanks in 1973 defending the area, because in 1967, the Syrians were lining up their artillery, wheel to wheel, in order to toss shells and rockets as far into Israel as they could, and thereby inhabitation by Israelis up to 30 Klms from the Golan completely untenable.

But I know why you are screaming about that.

You want those Syrian Artillery pieces shelling the crap out of the Jews, don't you? The sooner Israel is wiped off the map, and the Israelis exterminated and their daughters raped, the happier you will be.

The Israelis invaded a geographic area called "Lebanon" (I wouldn't cal it "a country") because terrorists were using it to toss mortar bombs and rockets into Israel, and to launch terrorist suicide squad attacks, one of which targetted an Israeli school. But you knew that all along.

Rather folishly, I thought, the Israelis gave the land back. They should have kept it, and everytime the Arabs attack them, they should take a bit more.

But you don't want Israel to clean the HAMAS religious Nazis out, do you? You want the terrorists to keep tossing mortar bombs and rockets into Israel, and to keep launching suicide squads into Israel, because the more Israelis they kill off, the better you like it. That is why you support the religious Nazis and whinge about the Jews doing such a great job defending themselves.

Do you face Mecca when you pray?
Posted by LEGO, Friday, 27 January 2012 6:14:47 PM
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LEGO is just another Zionist supporter who will never admit to the crimes of Israel.I have the same problem when talking to a fundamentalist Muslim fanatic or a Christian one.

There is no point arguing with fanatics.
Posted by Arjay, Sunday, 29 January 2012 11:27:55 AM
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ego,

I'll repeat for you my last post that you haven't yet answered.

'you've got to stop making things up. You can't be taken too seriously.

Quote where I ever said the Israelis attacked the Egyptians.

Quote where I have ever refered to Jewish people, let alone uttered any slur that shows I despise Jewish people.

Critising the disgraceful behaviour of Israel's regime and it's supporters is not the same as hating a whole nation, fool.

You still haven't disproven the overwhelming and conventional view that the nuclear aims of the Iranians can be stopped by the Israelis.
Hoping the Israelis can stop that because they killed a few dozen terrorists at a third world airport isn't quite in the same realm as showing a rational argument Israel can overcome the entire Iranian nation and it's nuclear aims... using force.

...

Why is it that you seem to revel in war and death? Have you a problem or are you just an angry impotent little man.'
Posted by imajulianutter, Sunday, 29 January 2012 11:35:04 AM
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