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The Forum > Article Comments > Australia going solar: gonna cost ya mate. > Comments

Australia going solar: gonna cost ya mate. : Comments

By John Daly, published 8/12/2011

Even if solar power gives Canberra sticker shock, it seems preferable to make local arrangements for more environmentally friendly fuels such as natural gas.

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The shift to renewables cannot be compared on a "Coal->Solar and keep everything else the same" model. The assumption of a near 100 year old distribution model and no efficiency measures at all is quite disingenuous!
Folks in the country are doing very nicely with total solar and wind power and ROI is more like 10 years than 25. These folks are using LED lights, passive solar building design (think 9 star+) and refrigeration with real insulation instead of mass produced items with poor insulation and silly wastage. Build housing properly and the tech that powers them is paid for before the mortgage is paid off.
Central generation and distribution wastes a lot of power and has costs that are not paid for. Using locally generated power eliminates the waste (though storage inefficiencies also waste energy, this can be mitigated somewhat: waste heat can be useful in the home).
Renewables for home use is a no brainer...but how will industry then get it's cheap energy? And mass transport still has no real alternatives to fossil (although things are finally moving here). Power bills currently have a sort of "jobs tax" built into them in that households are broadly subsidising industry...which provide jobs so folks can afford housing. A huge amount of cash is currently tied up in the faux "privatisation" of energy marketing fronts, who simply tell the foreign owned power distribution and generation companies who to bill.
Anyone using overly simplistic analysis will come to the conclusion that renewables are a hopeless cause. The same was thought of private cars, routine flight, space technology, municipal sewage and water supplies, etc.
BTW. For the "stop the subsidies" crowd...how about some parity (at least) with fossil fuel subsidies? Gaining world leadership might give Australia something to export instead of rocks and cashed up bankers.
Posted by Ozandy, Friday, 9 December 2011 9:13:35 AM
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Roses1

you and I have been over this stuff before and my recollection is that you had no answers. I'm well aware of the propaganda suggesting that somehow renewables will be able to provide base load and it just isn't happening. The best so far is that pilot solar plant in Spain that may be able to operate 20 hours day. It is always misrepresented as a base load plant. It is not. It is you who should make an effort to read material not on propaganda sites.

Saltpetre

Speaking of propoganda, where on earth did you get the idea that housholds could be made self-sustaining in energy terms, if that is what you meant? There is no possibility of that occuring, at least with current networks. The present concessions are little more than vote-buying. Because of the way the network is set up I'd be surprised if any carbon is saved at all - although I suppose its possible. If you will recollect, the same voltage is delivered to all areas regardless of what domestic supplies they may have. It is possible that if you have enough of those domestic systems it might alter demand in certain areas - several commentators have suggested this - but how would that affect how they manage the grid on a regional level? To get real savings you may have to wait for smart networks. But self-sustaining? No. Forget it.
Posted by Curmudgeon, Friday, 9 December 2011 9:48:02 AM
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Hay Oz, I don't know what you're drinking, but I want some, & a few pairs of those rose coloured glasses too thanks.

What you don't mention with your glorified vision of home power is the cost & the hassle.

Fortunately for them, many of those country folk have large incomes. That's a good thing if you are silly enough to generate your own power, it's a bloody expensive business.

It's also very time consuming. Maintaining battery banks is a real pain, & expensive, if you know how. If you can't do it yourself, add another $25,000 to your annual cost of power, to get those service men out there, regularly.

Then you have the fuel generator backup, petrol if your a fool, diesel if you're smart. However you had better be able to do your own servicing, & know how to hook the car up to run at least some lights & freezers in the house during the regular break down of the system.

Make sure that backup generator is a good one, you'll end up running it a great deal of the time.

My brother in law has recently moved to a small property near town, after years living with solar arrays, windmills & generators. He doesn't like town much, but when asked why he'd moved, he had a two word answer, "mains power". Having done it myself I knew just what he meant, & were both engineers.
Posted by Hasbeen, Friday, 9 December 2011 9:55:00 AM
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Create your own base load solar, with battery back up, easy. Has any one confirmed that carbon in the atmosphere is not a cancer causing carsonagene. Soot or carbon is what is causing the trouble, from fossil fuel.
Posted by 579, Friday, 9 December 2011 9:58:11 AM
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Wind is not so flash either.

A strong puff of wind and they fall apart:

http://images.smh.com.au/2011/12/09/2827950/art-winds1-420x0.jpg
Posted by Shadow Minister, Friday, 9 December 2011 10:22:49 AM
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Disconnecting from the grid will get you no where, Your batteries are solar charged during the day, and charged during the night by electric charger, both permanently connected. Deep cycle sealed batteries need no maintenance. During the day the house runs off a solar array, with excess going to the grid. 2 fridges and one freezer are on the batteries, with 24 volt inverters. Times have changed in the battery set ups,
Posted by 579, Friday, 9 December 2011 10:33:13 AM
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